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people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 12:50:28

dashster wrote:One of the keys to dealing with the "Limits to Growth" is dealing with the worst growth of all - population growth. At this point, the powers that be in the United States and their followers in the masses, still see population growth as part of the solution. This is problematic. I don't think that population growth will be seen as a problem until at least one, and probably two, of the fossil fuels peaks in production. But, if the pessimists are right, that isn't that far away.


"..the powers that be in the United States and their followers in the masses"

LOL talk about sugar coating it...try "owners and their pigs in a feedlot" instead.

The problem is the pigs are too dumb to even bother recognizing problem 1: losing space is bad for your welfare.

So he we are in Pigsville pretending that a society even exists.
Outcast_Searcher is a fraud.
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby Logic » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 13:58:19

hvacman wrote:This is a misleading headline and article. We at the peak oil forums should be very familiar with the now-common practice by MSM writers/editors of creating misleading headlines, articles, and/or conclusions by mixing up facts. One example is blending crude oil statistics with NGL's and then claiming very exaggerated US oil production levels. This is a similarly-manipulated article. Hybrid sales are off. SUV sales are up. More people are trading in their hybrids for other types of vehicles, including SUV's. Those are facts. But what isn't mentioned in the article is that EV sales are up even as gas prices drop, and the most common trade-in for a new EV is also a hybrid. This article, though, blends hybrid and EV sales and trade-ins as a single statistic, then uses "electric cars" in the headline, when it should have been "hybrids". This is lying through verbal and statistical mis-direction that only someone pretty savvy about the whole EV/hybrid scene would pick up.

Now more than ever, we must be ever-diligent in how we read articles.


+1000!
Very well said.
Lumping hybrids and EVs together and then drawing conclusions about EVs is just plain wrong.

Just anecdotal evidence, however, of the EV owners I know of (50 or so), only one has gone back to an all gas car.

As for the posters that mentioned the NEVs and scooters, those are wonderfully efficient vehicles and a great solution for many.
Trouble is, you have to get people to use them, and the adoption rate has been pitifully slow.
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 15:40:36

Lumping hybrids and EVs together and then drawing conclusions about EVs is just plain wrong.


you must have read a different article given the article says "hybrids and EVs" , it does not lump them together at any point in time.
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby hvacman » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 16:52:05

rockdoc - two example quotes from the article:

22 percent of people who have traded in their hybrids and EVs in 2015 bought a new SUV.


EVs and hybrids accounted for just 2.7 percent of all new car sales in the first quarter of 2015, down from 3.3 percent during that same period last year.


Per InsideEVs.com, US sales for EV's and plug-in hybrids increased from 22,671 1st qtr 2014 to 23,339 1st qtr 2015. Per Automotive News, total US 1st qtr 2014 auto sales were 3.74 million, 1st qtr 2015 sales were 3.95 million. Therefore...

2014 EV/plug-in % =0.61%
2015 EV/plug-in sales % = 0.59%.
Essentially a wash. The article makes it sound like the high-tech EV and plug-in type ownership, as well as the more-conventional-hybrid-type ownership, dropped 20% in terms of market share

So EV/plug-in sales, as a percent of total sales, have remained essentially flat between 2014 and 2015, despite much lower gas prices. The author cooked the books by blending hybrids with EV's/plug-ins. Note also that Tesla and Chevy Volt scored #1 (99%) and #3 (91%) for "% of owners would definitely buy again" OF ALL CARS with Consumer Reports most recent survey.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/best-worst-cars-for-owner-satisfaction/index.htm
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 17:56:51

Per InsideEVs.com, US sales for EV's and plug-in hybrids increased from 22,671 1st qtr 2014 to 23,339 1st qtr 2015. Per Automotive News, total US 1st qtr 2014 auto sales were 3.74 million, 1st qtr 2015 sales were 3.95 million. Therefore...

2014 EV/plug-in % =0.61%
2015 EV/plug-in sales % = 0.59%.


Not sure the validity of the sales numbers but for sure your maths are missing a few decimal points.
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby hvacman » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 18:52:52

I dunno - the decimal points look OK to me - but then it is Friday afternoon and I've probably already used up my weekly quota of quotients:)
22,671/3,740,000 = 0.0061 = 0.61%
23,339/3,950,000 = 0.0059 = 0.59%
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby Logic » Fri 24 Apr 2015, 20:12:37

rockdoc123 wrote:
Lumping hybrids and EVs together and then drawing conclusions about EVs is just plain wrong.


you must have read a different article given the article says "hybrids and EVs" , it does not lump them together at any point in time.


Primarily I was referring to your thread title 8O
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby Peak_Yeast » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 07:24:50

I was rather sceptical about the electrical cars - due to the bad performance of batteries over time.

Today I can visit the second hand car sites and find a number of CHEAP electric cars with no working battery. They are only about 6 years old - but the manufacturers has gone bankrupt.

One example is a Think City car from 2009 - driven about 15000 KM. Dead battery. Price tag 5000$. New price 44000$.

Thats about a 90% loss in just 6 years.

I am actually tempted to buy one - just to fiddle with the batteries or hope that something better soon comes along :-D
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Re: people trading in their electric cars for SUVS

Unread postby Logic » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 07:48:37

You can find lots of cars that dropped their transmissions in 6 years, it certainly isn't the norm though.
Volt owners have been unable to observe any loss of range over 4 years.
BEVs using Lithium do loose capacity each year, the amount is very small though.
Tesla Roadsters have typically lost about 1%-2%/year.
If you want to buy a clunker from a failed company (EV or ICE) you certainly can, there are plenty around.
I'll stick with the well made ones;)
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