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Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 11:41:37

Dissident,

I'm trying to understand what you are getting at. What I'm hearing you say is that the sedimentation process is a negative feedback that will slow the effects of climate change?

Please clarify.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dissident » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 12:02:07

Newfie wrote:Dissident,

I'm trying to understand what you are getting at. What I'm hearing you say is that the sedimentation process is a negative feedback that will slow the effects of climate change?

Please clarify.


It is the exact opposite. The warmer the surface ocean waters, the faster the bacterial decomposition of the sedimenting detritus (dead plankton), the more CO2 release near the surface and the less sequestration of CO2 both in the deep ocean water and in the sediments.

The CO2 sink in the oceans shrinks rapidly due to warming. It is not a constant process with some characteristic timescale (usually assumed to be a couple of centuries). And this change in the ocean sink is rapid. We do not have to wait centuries to see its effects.

The biological pump is a critical element in the chemical composition of the oceans. The anoxic events of the past are perfectly consistent with this. With enough warming there is rapid oxygen depletion in surface and intermediate depth waters. The mass of plankton increases and so does the mass of decomposing plankton. Both consume oxygen. The waters at the base of the surface layer where phytoplankton are active (euphotic zone) are even now depleted in oxygen. This "oxycline" migrates towards the surface as the water temperature increases. The bacteria operating under low oxygen conditions are iron or sulphate reducers. The sulphate reducers produce sulphides which go on to form H2S. The reduced iron chemical species react to give compounds which precipitate out of solution and sediment to the sea floor. These anoxic ocean events produce a nice pink shade in the limestone because of this.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 18 Jan 2015, 14:42:36

Thanks for the links and the clarification, dis. Much to chew on hear.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 22 Jan 2015, 12:50:58

(hear > here :oops: )

Meanwhile:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/oceans ... harts.html

The oceans are warming so fast, they keep breaking scientists' charts

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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 08:08:37

Sounds depressingly like the collapse of the cod fishery oh Newfoundland. That closure, 1998?, has only very recently started showing positive results.

I believe there was a simila cod closure off NE this year.

Oregonian, Apr 13, 2015: Pacific coast sardines are facing a population collapse so severe [fishing] will be shut down… [The] downward spiral in spite of favorable water conditions has ocean-watchers worried there’s more to this collapse than cyclical population trends. “There are a lot of weird things happening out there, and we’re not quite sure why they aren’t responding the way they should,” said Kevin Hill, a NOAA Fisheries biologist… Fishery managers are adding it to a list of baffling circumstances off the West Coast… NOAA surveys indicate very few juvenile fish made it through their first year. “The population isn’t replacing itself,” Hill said.


http://enenews.com/emergency-closure-fi ... -coast-mas
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 08:36:59

Sounds like the bees.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Lore » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 08:55:00

Canaries in the coal mine. The bottom of the food chain is being taken out.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 09:17:58

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... opulation/
this link attesting to a 40% drop in phytoplankton since 1950. Basically the base of the food chain.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 10:31:30

onlooker, that study was five years ago, and has been highly contested since. Apparently they may have mis-read the early data.

Here's the discussion on the wiki page:

Signs that such a large decline in phytoplankton has not occurred include not observing a comparable percentage decline in fish species which feed on phytoplankton...

Another global ocean primary productivity study found a net increase in phytoplankton, as judged from measured chlorophyll, when comparing observations in 1998–2002 to those conducted during a prior mission in 1979–1986.

The airborne fraction of CO2 from human emissions, the percentage neither sequestered by photosynthetic life on land and sea nor absorbed in the oceans abiotically, has been almost constant over the past century, and that suggests a moderate upper limit on how much a component of the carbon cycle as large as phytoplankton may have declined, if such declined in recent decades.

In the example of the northeast Atlantic, a case where chlorophyll measurements extend particularly far back, the location of the Continuous Plankton Recorder (CPR) survey, there was net increase over a 1948 to 2002 period examined. During 1998–2005, global ocean net primary productivity rose during 1998 followed by primarily decline during the rest of that period, although still slightly higher at its end than at its start...
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 10:36:38

umm Dohboi , I thought Scientific American was a reputable source , I guess not good to know as I am not in the field and have too rely on internet sources for information. I will endeavor to be more careful when posting this scientific data which is vulnerable to being wrong.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 12:10:05

onlooker wrote:umm Dohboi , I thought Scientific American was a reputable source ,.


It's nothing like they were 40 years ago.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 13:17:54

Newfie wrote:Sounds depressingly like the collapse of the cod fishery oh Newfoundland. That closure, 1998?, has only very recently started showing positive results.

Except now we have Carribean species showing in Newfoundland
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 18:20:56

ScAm has fallen from its glory days. But really this is more about not placing too much weight on any one scientific study.

It's not even that the original study was necessarily completely wrong. It's just that you want to have a lot of other studies replicating and supporting it before you fully accept it as more or less 'settled science,' and we just don't have that kind of confirmation for that claim yet. That's the way science works.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 18 Apr 2015, 23:18:43

The decline in Phytoplankton is real. Subsequent research has supported observed declines in Boyce, 2010.

Marine phytoplankton account for approximately half of the production of organic matter on earth, support virtually all marine ecosystems, constrain fisheries yields, and influence climate and weather. Despite this importance, long-term trajectories of phytoplankton abundance or biomass are difficult to estimate, and the extent of changes is unresolved. Here, we use a new, publicly-available database of historical shipboard oceanographic measurements to estimate long-term changes in chlorophyll concentration (Chl; a widely used proxy for phytoplankton biomass) from 1890 to 2010. This work builds upon an earlier analysis (Boyce et al., 2010) by taking published criticisms into account, and by using recalibrated data, and novel analysis methods. Rates of long-term chlorophyll change were estimated using generalized additive models within a multi-model inference framework, and post hoc sensitivity analyses were undertaken to test the robustness of results. Our analysis revealed statistically significant Chl declines over 62% of the global ocean surface area where data were present, and in 8 of 11 large ocean regions. While Chl increases have occurred in many locations, weighted syntheses of local- and regional-scale estimates confirmed that average chlorophyll concentrations have declined across the majority of the global ocean area over the past century. Sensitivity analyses indicate that these changes do not arise from any bias between data types, nor do they depend upon the method of spatial or temporal aggregation, nor the use of a particular statistical model. The wider consequences of this long-term decline of marine phytoplankton are presently unresolved, but will need to be considered in future studies of marine ecosystem structure, geochemical cycling, and fishery yields.


Boyce DG, Dowd M, Lewis MR, Worm B (2014) Estimating global chlorophyll changes over the past century. Progress in Oceanography 122:163–173

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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 19 Apr 2015, 00:58:32

Thanks for the update, Cid.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 19 Apr 2015, 01:04:48

dohboi wrote:ScAm has fallen from its glory days. But really this is more about not placing too much weight on any one scientific study.


Scientific American used to write very serious review articles that were packed with pretty technical information, but they were written for a more general audience of people with college degrees but not graduate school. And it could take a long time to read one of those articles, but you learned a hell of a lot. They illustrated the articles in those annoying pastel diagrams that were designed to be impossible to photocopy, otherwise they would have been ripped off for every undergrad college class lecture.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 19 Apr 2015, 03:26:09

I stopped eating all seafood after the Fukishima disaster. (You never know where the stuff comes from)

We need a 100 year moratorium on all fishing to give the oceans time to recover and to be rebalanced.

They should ban fishing and sink every boat caught fishing, that would hasten the process of recovery.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 19 Apr 2015, 04:12:11

Repent wrote:I stopped eating all seafood after the Fukishima disaster. (You never know where the stuff comes from)

We need a 100 year moratorium on all fishing to give the oceans time to recover and to be rebalanced.

They should ban fishing and sink every boat caught fishing, that would hasten the process of recovery.

Your so right R! Unfortunately that is where we are now as a planet. Hard to believe that the Ocean is now in the condition it is. Guess one reason is because nobody lives there no voters :razz: :razz: Guess we all got too laugh off the Cataclysm we are creating.
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 19 Apr 2015, 10:36:36

Found this report that refers to a ground-breaking study taken from various sources which validates the suspicion of many in the scientific community that the Ocean is in very bad shape. Here is link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/scien ... .html?_r=0
Three reasons why ocean is being harmed
1. Co2 with resultant acidification
2. Overfishing
3. Pollution-Contamination
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Re: Ocean Apocolypse--Jeremy Jackson

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 20 Apr 2015, 02:50:55

Repent wrote:I stopped eating all seafood after the Fukishima disaster. (You never know where the stuff comes from)
Gulf of Mexico?
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