[Pops]

The main character, once in the publishing business in the Big City, reflects on his prior homosexuality (back when there was oil) and wonders if he was really gay at all or had he merely played out a role that the decadent, consumerist civilization had set for him...

That is as far as I got. LOL. I'm not gay and don't know anyone who is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with peak oil, plastic Christmas trees or consumerism.

The feeling in the first few pages is of how serene the world becomes after most of the population dies off from the epidemics and the good people who are left pick up all the stuff left laying around. The first couple dozen pages I found trite and predictable and I hate to say it, but; "plastic".

It's Peaker Heaven, though. A total reset world where the lucky bottleneck survivors get to remake themselves in the low-tech image of their former company-time daydreams — using materials left behind by that same cursed world.

It is Little House except with the constant subtext that all the characters are descendants of the modern Noah. If you hate modern civ and think everyone deserves to go but leave their stuff intact; you'll like it.

[ennui2]

Wow. Kunstler really is "get off my lawn" personified. I don't think attitudes like his help matters, nor Derrik Jensen's for that matter, if you want to go even more extreme.

[Tanada]

The main character, once in the publishing business in the Big City, reflects on his prior homosexuality (back when there was oil) and wonders if he was really gay at all or had he merely played out a role that the decadent, consumerist civilization had set for him...

That is as far as I got. LOL. I'm not gay and don't know anyone who is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with peak oil, plastic Christmas trees or consumerism.

The feeling in the first few pages is of how serene the world becomes after most of the population dies off from the epidemics and the good people who are left pick up all the stuff left laying around. The first couple dozen pages I found trite and predictable and I hate to say it, but; "plastic".

It's Peaker Heaven, though. A total reset world where the lucky bottleneck survivors get to remake themselves in the low-tech image of their former company-time daydreams — using materials left behind by that same cursed world.

It is Little House except with the constant subtext that all the characters are descendants of the modern Noah. If you hate modern civ and think everyone deserves to go but leave their stuff intact; you'll like it.

I had several GLB friends when I was at University and I think every one of them would be at a minimum irritated by the 'homosexuality can be cured' trope that so often shows up in patriarchal/matriarchal thinking We all drifted apart in the years since we were at University but I still stay in touch with a couple of Uni friends via FB. Their life choices do not appeal to me, but that didn't stop us from being friends. Decadent societies do encourage people to explore personal relationships in ways that hand to mouth survival is paramount cultures do not.

In a complex diverse large population center you can find almost any interest you have expressed by someone else in that population center. When you are in a small village or even a small town your choices are necessarily much more narrow. When your community is struggling to survive and your life choices cause conflict you can find yourself threatened or even killed for disrupting the community and making survival of the community more difficult.

I enjoyed World Made By Hand and The Witch Of Hebron though the latter was kind of strange. I just checked my Amazon feed and to get this third novel for Kindle is $13.99, which is IMO excessive for an electronic edition of almost any book. The print length is listed as 352 pages, less than the latest Harry Turtledove novel I bought for $11.

Sorry Mr. Kunstker, that is too high for too little. If The Witch Of Hebron had been a real page turner leaving us begging for more then maybe, but it was just an average summer read.

[C8]

Man if I had a dollar for every Kunstler prediction that never came true. The man is a walking fear monger machine: Y2K, Bird Flu, PO crash, YEARLY predictions of TOTAL stock market meltdown, cars becoming obsolete in a few year (sorry, Jim: we are still "happy motoring"! ), solar will never become competitive, wind neither, etc. etc.

WHO ON EARTH STILL READS THIS GUY?

[Lore]

A lot of people read Kunstler. He is a literary muse of change reflective of the uncertain times we live in. Like the court jester his wisdom comes from between the lines.

While his topics range from one weekly news cycle to the next. He stays pretty consistent with his message. The self destruction of an urbanized and resource extended global culture.

His future reality is that everyone will eventually come to their senses after the dust settles and life will go on 1800s style.

As far as his predictions, he only has to be right once. Like the guy holding the street sign, "the end is near". While it's a fact that we go on doing things till we can't anymore.

[Loki]

The main character, once in the publishing business in the Big City, reflects on his prior homosexuality (back when there was oil) and wonders if he was really gay at all or had he merely played out a role that the decadent, consumerist civilization had set for him...

That is as far as I got. LOL. I'm not gay and don't know anyone who is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with peak oil, plastic Christmas trees or consumerism.

That's not the main character, he ends up playing a very minor role in the rest of the novel. You would have found that out had you read the book

The reference to homosexuality was in response to the hate mail that Kunstler received from what he calls the "diversity cheerleaders." He didn't have any gay characters in his previous novels, or "people of color," and apparently the feminists didn't like his portrayal of women, either. His point in briefly discussing the character's homosexuality is that, under a total collapse scenario, we won't be able to indulge in divisive nonsense like the modern identity movements.

The feeling in the first few pages is of how serene the world becomes after most of the population dies off from the epidemics and the good people who are left pick up all the stuff left laying around. The first couple dozen pages I found trite and predictable and I hate to say it, but; "plastic".

It's Peaker Heaven, though. A total reset world where the lucky bottleneck survivors get to remake themselves in the low-tech image of their former company-time daydreams — using materials left behind by that same cursed world.

It is Little House except with the constant subtext that all the characters are descendants of the modern Noah. If you hate modern civ and think everyone deserves to go but leave their stuff intact; you'll like it.

Again, there's a lot more to the book, and the previous two novels upon which this book builds, than your rather unfair summation. Did you read the previous ones?

I found the History of the Future to be the weakest of the three, but still entertaining. The first book was the best. I could live without the supernaturalism that he introduces here and there for no apparent reason, and his presentation of the Firefox Republic is cartoonish (as are all his references to southerners), but Kunstler can spin a good yarn and offers some interesting insights. The changes in social relations he discusses are particularly intriguing, the return of a sort of feudalism, for example.

[Withnail]

The feeling in the first few pages is of how serene the world becomes after most of the population dies off from the epidemics and the good people who are left pick up all the stuff left laying around. The first couple dozen pages I found trite and predictable and I hate to say it, but; "plastic".

Kunstler basically hates other humans.

[Lore]

The feeling in the first few pages is of how serene the world becomes after most of the population dies off from the epidemics and the good people who are left pick up all the stuff left laying around. The first couple dozen pages I found trite and predictable and I hate to say it, but; "plastic".

Kunstler basically hates other humans.

Where did you get that impression, explain?

[Timo]

Kunstler was the keynote speaker at a conference I attended several years back in Buffalo, NY. His speech was held in their renovated early 20th Century theater (honestly, a masterpiece of architecture if there ever was one!). I can't remember the name of that theater right now, but I went just to see the interior. However, having read Kunstler for several years prior to that day, I knew exactly what he was going to say, and so I skipped out on his speech. Afterward, I visited with several friends who did attend, and they were greatly disappointed with his view of the world. Hearing that, I was not disappointed that I grabbed a cup of coffee, instead.

I really appreciated The Long Emergency. World Made by Hand was ok. His weekly clusterfuck has gotten too predictable to bother reading anymore. For the long-term view, I think he's got a lot to offer, especially to those who are "uninitiated" to the simple idea of resource constraints, but to everyone who already understands our current state, second verse, same as the first. His MO now has shifted from preaching a message to maintaining his self-importance. He's lost within himself.

On the bright side, though, he is a pretty good painter! No gloom there!

[rollin]

The reality is that during a fast collapse, most cities and towns would burn. A lot of forests would burn also. The resulting "nuclear winter" would make it tough for anyone In a cool to cold climate to survive at all. There might not be a lot of things to use after all the fires and chemical spills. Of course there wouldn't be many people either.

Personally, I put fast collapse probability at less than 10 percent. If collapse occurs it will be cyclical inhomogeneous and stretched out over a period of time. Those places insulated from the global economy might not notice it much at all.

[Ibon]

Kunstler is a good read for the adolescent, still dependent on "daddy and mommy" BAU but not yet mature enough to leave the relationship behind and follow your own world view.

At the root of obsessing over the decline of modern civilization is this same adolescence. One is not yet rooted in creating an alternative value system or culture and so must waste all ones time obsessing on how "mommy and daddy" civilization is all fxxcked up..

You start drifting away from obsessing on this topic when you grow up. You accept the dysfunction and move on to build what ever creative life you can within the limits and in spite of our collective retardation.

To endlessly dissect all the many facets of the dysfunction is immature. Not only that, it is also becoming a tired cliche. What was perhaps cutting edge 10 years ago is becoming rather worn and boring and scripted and predictable as a theme.

Time to move on?

[Lore]

Time to move on?

Move onto what? You can say pretty much the same thing about Peak Oil. Pretty much its all been discussed. Only tapping out the time now.

[Timo]

Time to move on?

Move onto what? You can say pretty much the same thing about Peak Oil. Pretty much its all been discussed. Only tapping out the time now.

Solutions.

[Lore]

Time to move on?

Move onto what? You can say pretty much the same thing about Peak Oil. Pretty much its all been discussed. Only tapping out the time now.

Solutions.

I believe Kunstler talks about solutions all the time. As we do here, but then again identifying a problem and what to do about it is the easiest thing to do. Taking real action requires so much more.

So, I would suggest we have the solutions we just can't move on to produce the action.

[Ibon]

Time to move on?

Move onto what? You can say pretty much the same thing about Peak Oil. Pretty much its all been discussed. Only tapping out the time now.

Moving on from the tired cliche of identifying all that is dysfunctional with our modern civilization and starting to make life decisions that is not held hostage in the shadow of decline. It will not go away, and it will probably get far worse, but personally you work within that framework to the best of your ability to have a creative and meaningful life.

Reading the 4th or 5th book by Kunstler or the 200th essay by JMG or rehashing for the 1000th time these topics here at PO.com can become an indulgence and even worse a hindrance in carving out your life when you get fixed on all that is going down the drain.

Knowledge that you incorporate into your active life is very different than coming to the daily feedlot of doom to find confirmation that your society is screwed. This is not adaptive behavior in dealing with overshoot by the way. Nor is it cutting edge. Its becoming a tired cliche that you can see more and more out there.

Those who have their hands in the soil or are out their building on their knowledge of human overshoot are increasingly shunning away from over indulging and over examining decline.

Lore, your last sentence says it all................"Only tapping out the time now"

That really sucks if that is what you are doing. How about shutting off your damn digital device and start to actually do something?

[Ibon]

So, I would suggest we have the solutions we just can't move on to produce the action.

What's stopping you? And I am not singling you out. I mean this for everyone reading this. What is stopping anyone?

[Ibon]

Kunstler talks far more about our society's failures than he actually does about solutions. When he talks about solutions it is often framed in how stupid our society is in not practicing them. People who read his books do so more for finding confirmation how dumb our society is rather than seeing his writing as a handbook on solutions. His writing is a tired cynical cliche

And the irony is that he is far more engaged and in relationship to the very society that he has so much disdain for. That is why his writing is so visceral.

[Lore]

So, I would suggest we have the solutions we just can't move on to produce the action.

What's stopping you? And I am not singling you out. I mean this for everyone reading this. What is stopping anyone?

Nothing, I personally made the decision to power down several years ago when I decided to move from North Carolina to the woods and water of Michigan. I volunteer my services now, heat less, drive less, eat less and live small. I also vote and support anyone, in and out of my community, that has the gumption to move towards a more sustainable future.

And for those of you who don't know what to do? Here is a brief music intermission from Ten Years After.
http://youtu.be/sg6xaFZStEI

[Lore]

And the irony is that he is far more engaged and in relationship to the very society that he has so much disdain for. That is why his writing is so visceral.

That is the truth of it because nothing much has changed around him or us. As humans we all need to function with the tools and in the society at hand. Being an arcane hermit doesn't result in actionable change that can affect yourself and anyone around you.

If a rising tied floats all boats then the opposite is also true, a receding one lowers them altogether. For the result to be impactful we all must take action together. Building a coalition is never easy. Specially one that suggests sacrifice.

[Timo]

So, I would suggest we have the solutions we just can't move on to produce the action.

What's stopping you? And I am not singling you out. I mean this for everyone reading this. What is stopping anyone?

Money.