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THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 02 Mar 2015, 01:43:43

Canadian military predicted chaos in Libya if NATO helped overthrow Gadhafi
Canadian military intelligence officers predicted in 2011 that Libya could descend into a lengthy civil war if foreign countries provided assistance to rebels opposing the country’s dictator Moammar Gadhafi, according to documents obtained by the Citizen.

The warning, made just days before several countries, including Canada, began their March 2011 bombing campaign against Gadhafi’s regime, has unfolded as predicted.

Libya has descended into chaos as rival tribes and militias continue to battle each other for control of the country.

Last week, Libyan Foreign Minister Mohamed Dayri warned that warring factions were pushing his country into a full-scale civil war. Italy has also raised concerns that Islamic extremists who now occupy parts of the country pose a threat to the region and Europe.

The Canadian government and military played key roles in overthrowing Gadhafi and highlighted those efforts as a significant victory both for Libya and Canadians.

At the time, then-foreign affairs minister John Baird reinforced Canada’s support for the rebel groups fighting Gadhafi, pointing out they had a well-developed plan that would transform the country into a democracy. “The one thing we can say categorically is that they couldn’t be any worse than Col. Gadhafi,” said Baird.

But when Gadhafi was overthrown in the fall of 2011, the various rebel groups refused to surrender their weapons and instead began fighting each other.

The uprising against Gadhafi began in February 2011. But it was NATO warplanes that destroyed large parts of Libya’s military and are now credited with allowing rag-tag militias and assorted armed groups to eventually seize control of the country.

Various nations began the military intervention in Libya on March 19, 2011. Canadian CF-18 fighter jets started their bombing runs on March 23.

Just days before, however, Canadian intelligence specialists sent a briefing report shared with senior officers. “There is the increasing possibility that the situation in Libya will transform into a long-term tribal/civil war,” they wrote in their March 15, 2011 assessment. “This is particularly probable if opposition forces received military assistance for foreign militaries.”

Some officers in the Canadian Forces tried to raise concerns early on in the war that removing Gadhafi would play into the hands of Islamic extremists, but military sources say those warnings went unheeded. Later, military members would privately joke about Canada’s CF-18s being part of “al-Qaida’s air force,” since their bombing runs helped to pave the way for rebel groups aligned with the terrorist group.

The Royal Canadian Air Force flew 10 per cent of the missions during NATO’s campaign.

At the time of the Libyan uprising, U.S. Adm. James Stavridis, the NATO leader, acknowledged that some of the rebels benefiting from the airstrikes could be linked to Islamic extremists. But he said that, overall, the opposition forces were made up of “responsible men and women.”

In September 2014, Prime Minister Stephen Harper defended Canada’s role in Libya, suggesting that neither it nor NATO can be held responsible for the chaos that has since engulfed that country. “One can quarrel with it or not quarrel with it, but the mission was we would provide air cover for those that were initially subject to Gadhafi’s attacks and ultimately became his overthrowers,” Harper explained shortly before meeting NATO leaders.

“The decision was made at the outset that we were not going to go into Libya (on the ground) per se. It was going to be up to the Libyans to then make the best of the situation.”

Gadhafi was considered a brutal dictator, but in later years he was embraced by Western leaders, who provided his forces with military training and weapons.

Analysts with the Department of National Defence also noted Gadhafi was a staunch ally of the West in the war against al-Qaida and Islamic extremism.

His efforts against al-Qaida-backed forces and his co-operation with the U.S. in providing information on terrorist networks were highlighted in a number of DND reports from 2002, 2003 and 2006 obtained by the Citizen using the Access to Information law.

Gadhafi had his own reasons for helping the U.S. and Western nations in fighting Islamic extremists, since they also represented a threat to his own power.

A Canadian intelligence report written in late 2009 described the anti-Gadhafi stronghold of eastern Libya as an “epicentre of Islamist extremism” and said “extremist cells” operated in the region.

The report by the government’s Integrated Threat Assessment Centre said “several Islamist insurgent groups” were based in eastern Libya and mosques in Benghazi had been urging followers to fight in Iraq
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 15:35:52

UN report paints damning picture of foreign complicity in rearming Libya
By Libya Herald staff.
Tunis, 4 March 2015:
Hundreds of tonnes of weapons are pouring into Libya by land, sea and air to fuel its civil war, a UN sanctions committee reported this week.

In the most comprehensive report ever made public on Libya’s arms imports, a panel of experts set up by the UN Security Council says the country is awash with weapons, unchecked by an international embargo.

Providers include companies from Belarus, Bulgaria, Egypt, Hungary, Ukraine, Greece, Jordan, Sudan, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, Qatar and Turkey.

The report, delivered to the UN Security Council in February and now made public, lists weapons imports ranging from pistols to Mig fighter jets, all violating an embargo ordered by the UN in 2011.

It portrays a country in semi-anarchy with militias battling one another amid a rising tide of casualties and says the absence of embargo enforcement means “continuing large scale illicit trafficking is inevitable.”

The report castigates UN member states for poor controls, in one instance recording a passenger telling inspectors he watched ammunition boxes unloaded from an Afriquiya flight on 17 September last year after it arrived in Tripoli from Istanbul. “When passengers protested about their luggage being left behind in Istanbul the militia, controlled a well-known Fajr (Libya Dawn) commander and overseeing he unloading of the boxes, ordered them to leave the airport,” the report says.

Egypt, meanwhile, is accused of sending jets and a helicopter, with photos published indicating Egyptian helicopters are now in use in Libya. The panel noted a “significant increase in the capacity of the air force in the past few months,” saying “while some of the aircraft have been refurbished in Libya it appears that some aircraft and spare parts have been obtained from abroad.”

Some states are said to be complicit in the trade. “While the Panel is still seeking conclusive evidence, its investigations indicate that military materiel currently entering Libya is sponsored by a number of (UN) member states,” it concludes.

“To date, despite the violations reported in the Panel’s three previous reports, no action has been taken against most of the violators. What is more, some have been involved in further violations.”

Weapons imports include hundreds of tonnes of ammunition and millions of bullets.

The picture it paints of Libya is bleak, saying militias are paid by the state with some also supplementing their income through bank robberies, kidnap-for-ransom and people-trafficking.

It lists a July 2013 order with Belarus for “more than 3,000 tonnes of ammunition for small arms and light weapons. The end-user certificate was signed by Khaled Al-Sharif, [the former deputy defence minister] and the deal was brokered by Slobodan Tesic through Chariso Limited.”

Many of the weapons go straight back out again, and have “reinforced the military capacity of terrorist groups operating in different parts of the region, including Algeria, Egypt, Mali and Tunisia.”

Also lax are financial controls on two exiled children of former dictator Muammar Gaddafi, with reports of a “strong possibility that Hannibal and Aisha Gaddafi, individuals designated under the assets freeze measure, have moved very large sums of money from their bank accounts into what are believed to be “front companies.”

The European Union is revealed to have had guns and ammunition sent to its security detail stolen at Tripoli National airport last April including 20 rifles, 70 handguns and 42,000 rounds of ammunition.

The panel accuses the United Nations Special Mission in Libya (UNSMIL) of failing to facilitate travel in Libya for the experts, despite persistent requests.

In evidence that may form the basis of war crimes prosecutions, it names a series of militia leaders in Tripoli responsible for torture and mistreatment in detention centres.

The panel also lays bare the chaos in Libya’s finances, saying that 1.7 million of Libya’s 6 million population are paid by the central bank as public employees, including militia members.

Some successes have been noted, including the seizure by Greece of a Turkish vessel with 1,103 tonnes of ammunition bound for Libya from a Ukrainian company.

The panel calls for the UN to set up a naval “monitoring force” to screen merchant ships for weapons, along with the establishment of “safe areas” to give civilians refuge from attacks.

But to date the UN, which first received the report a month ago, has given no indication of following the recommendations. Nor is it clear what happens next. This is the last report of the sanctions committee. Its tenure was extended under last summer’s UN Security Council resolution 2174, promoted at the time as “tightening” a sanctions regime that its experts say is being comprehensively violated.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 15:50:27

Libya declares force majeure at 11 oil fields
Staff Writer, Al Arabiya News
Thursday, 5 March 2015
Libya's National Oil Co declared force majeure Wednesday at 11 oil fields after attacks by Islamists, a legal step protecting it from liability if it cannot fullfil contracts for reasons beyond its control.


And the company threatened to "close all fields and ports" if the security situation does not improve.

Islamist militants seized Al-Bahi and Al-Mabrouk fields on Tuesday and were heading for a third one, at Al-Dahra, said a spokesman for the Libyan oil industry's security service.

Violence and a slowdown at export terminals have already forced a shutdown at Al-Bahi and Al-Mabrouk, about 310 miles (500 kilometres) east of Tripoli, for the past several weeks.

An attack on the sites in February killed 11 people and all staff were evacuated.

Libya has been awash with weapons since the 2011 uprising that toppled and killed Kadhafi, and opposing militias have since been battling for control of its cities and oil wealth.

It has two rival governments and parliaments -- those recognised by the international community sitting in the far east of the country and the others in the capital.

On Tuesday, security spokesman Colonel Ali al-Hassi said militia warplanes had attacked the major export terminal at Al-Sidra but were driven off without hitting their targets.

In response, planes of the internationally recognised authorities struck Tripoli's militia-controlled Mitiga airport without causing any casualties.
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Happy Anniversary Iraq and Libya

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 19 Mar 2015, 01:55:55

March 19 marks two gloomy anniversaries: the 12th anniversary of U.S. invasion of Iraq and the 5th anniversary of the NATO intervention in Libya. Both overthrew Arab dictators; both left the local people in such horrific straits that many of them look back with nostalgia to the days of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi.

I was in Iraq with a dozen of my CODEPINK colleagues a month before the U.S. invasion in 2003. While we found a country wracked by 13 years of draconian Western sanctions and a people scared to openly criticize Saddam Hussein, we also found a middle class country with an extremely well-educated population where women made up the majority of university students and participated in all aspects of public life.

I’ll never forget my first conversation with an Iraqi woman in Baghdad, Eman Khammas. “Oh, you’re from the United States,” she remarked in perfect English. “Who is your favorite black woman poet? Do you like Nikki Giovanni or June Jordan or Alice Walker?” Taken aback, I asked how she knew about these women. “I studied them when I was doing my English degree at the University of Baghdad,” she replied somewhat condescendingly, as if that were common knowledge.

Today Khammas and her family are refugees, as are millions of Iraqis who were forced to flee the violence unleashed by “Operation Iraqi Freedom.” By 2007, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said that the number of people fleeing Iraq reached 2 million and that within Iraq there were an estimated 1.7 million internally displaced people. With the civil war raging today, that number has only increased, as have deaths. An academic study published in 2013 found that nearly half a million Iraqis had died from war-related causes since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

While military contractors made out like bandits, U.S. taxpayers wasted $1.7 trillion dollars on the Iraq war, money that could have funded healthcare and education here at home. American families lost 4,488 of their loved ones, with tens of thousands of veterans suffering from PTSD and other war-related maladies.

Yes, the U.S. overthrew Saddam Hussein, but it also destroyed the nation’s infrastructure and tore asunder the societal fabric. By disbanding the entire Iraqi military and bureaucracy, and supporting a sectarian Shia government, the U.S. created a power vacuum — a space for ISIS to seize power. ISIS currently controls a huge swath of Iraq, some 13,000 square miles, and wreaks havoc on the predominantly Shia’a population by carrying out ethnic cleansing, taking women as slaves, beheading children, and displacing entire communities.

Libya is a similarly tragic tale. When the peaceful protests against Muammar Gaddafi were met with government violence, an armed rebellion emerged that called for military help from the West. With NATO’s help in this “humanitarian intervention,” Gaddafi was overthrown in October 2011. A summary of the intervention in the prestigious journal Foreign Affairs concluded: “By any measure, NATO succeeded in Libya. It saved tens of thousands of lives from almost certain destruction. It conducted an air campaign of unparalleled precision, which, although not perfect, greatly minimized collateral damage. It enabled the Libyan opposition to overthrow one of the world's longest-ruling dictators. And it accomplished all of this without a single allied casualty and at a cost — $1.1 billion for the United States and several billion dollars overall — that was a fraction of that spent on previous interventions in the Balkans, Afghanistan, and Iraq.”

Today, Libya is considered a “failed state” run by extremist militias and two opposing governments vying for power. Ex-rebel commanders, former exiles, Islamists, tribal leaders are all fighting for control, leaving no authoritative government or legitimate institutions.

Before the “liberation,” Libya was the richest country in Africa. It provided all Libyans with free healthcare and education. Today Libyans have almost no functioning public services, with daily blackouts and water shortages.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinio ... -0032.html
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 23 Apr 2015, 01:53:11

From those radical lefties at
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NATO role in 2011 Gadhafi ouster may have given rise to Islamic State presence in Libya
As NATO announced the end of its seven-month bombing campaign in Libya that helped topple dictator Moammar Gadhafi, the top military officials expressed their pride in the alliance’s achievement.

“A successful chapter in NATO’s history is coming to an end,” Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told Libya’s new leaders in Tripoli in October 2011, just days after rebels had caught and murdered a fleeing Gadhafi. Rasmussen said he expected a new Libya to arise, “based on freedom, democracy, human rights, the rule of law and reconciliation."

Top U.S. officials also chimed in.

“We came, we saw, he died,” a triumphant then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton declared to a television reporter.

Four years after NATO’s “successful chapter,” Libya is in chaos, a failed state with two rival but powerless governments and dozens of warlords and militia groups fighting it out in the streets of its cities. The once-thriving oil-based economy — now a waypoint for tens of thousands of refugees from Africa and the Middle East fleeing to Europe — could be the radical Islamic State group’s next target.

“I think Libya is probably where ISIL most wants to gain a foothold,” Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said on Monday, using an alternative name for the Islamic State. “They probably have at this point gained at least a toehold in Libya based on the extraordinary amount of unrest and the almost completely deteriorated security situation.”

The West is now witnessing the effects of helping to topple a dictator in Libya without any plan to fill the power vacuum, experts say. The same issue could emerge in Syria if President Bashar Assad’s government falls to the rebels, many of them linked to al-Qaida or the Islamic State.

The ensuing chaos in Libya should have been predictable, said Patrick Skinner, a former CIA case officer who now manages special projects for the Soufan Group, a New York firm that provides security and intelligence analysis services.

“I tend to be sympathetic to governments that have to make hard decisions, but coming on the heels of the Iraq War, where we learned what a power vacuum was, I probably have less sympathy in this case,” Skinner said.

In Libya, NATO’s intervention started amid concerns that Gadhafi’s forces were poised to carry out a large-scale slaughter of rival tribal groups. But in time, it turned into a broader effort to help rebel fighters eliminate the regime with NATO carrying out 9,600 airstrikes during the seven-month campaign. That’s more than double the number of strikes in the ongoing U.S.-led operation against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

While experts and policymakers disagree about Gadhafi’s intentions and whether an actual slaughter of civilians was about to take place, there is broad consensus that the West’s declarations of victory were premature, revealing a lack of awareness about the complexity of a post-Gadhafi Libya.
...
In the intervention’s aftermath, heavy weapons once belonging to the old regime flooded out of Libya and into the arms of militants stretching from Syria to Mali and Nigeria. Many fighters the West hoped would emerge as pro-democracy forces proved to be religious militants.
...
The Islamic State also could serve as a magnet for former Gadhafi regime members, he said. In Iraq, such a scenario has been a part of the group’s success as former Iraqi officers under Saddam Hussein play a key advisory role on the battlefield.

“There have been signs that the rank-and-file members of the former regime have shown a willingness to join ISIS,” Toaldo said. “That’s another scary development because they have the expertise in the field. It is fair to say ISIS in Libya has big potential.”
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 30 May 2015, 22:35:01

Libya calls on world to protect oil fields from IS
Benghazi (Libya) (AFP) - Libya's internationally recognised government called Saturday for outside help in combatting jihadists, warning that the Islamic State group's capture of a key coastal airport endangered nearby oil terminals.

The government based in eastern Libya, in a statement on its official Facebook page, called on the international community to "supply arms to its forces to fight IS plans to seize oil fields to fund its operations".

"The government is doing everything to retake the town of Sirte and its airport from terrorist hands," it added.

IS took control of the airport in Sirte -- the hometown of former dictator Moamer Kadhafi -- after forces belonging to a Tripoli-based rival government withdrew late Thursday.

Officials in Tripoli said IS had allied with supporters of the ousted Kadhafi regime to deploy across Sirte, a region with oilfields.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 08:37:41

:-D

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/g ... 29303.html

Saif al-Islam, the most prominent son of Libya's slain leader, Muammar Gaddafi, has been sentenced to death by firing squad.

He was sentenced in absentia on Tuesday in Tripoli along with eight other senior members of the former regime, which was overthrown in 2011.
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KILL THE TYRANTS

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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby davep » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 08:49:06

You find the death sentence amusing? Why?
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Withnail » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 09:17:40

So despite our previous experience in Iraq, and despite the dodgy looking bearded Islamists we supported with our bombing campaign, it's come as a total surprise to us that Libya has turned into a dangerous failed state?
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby davep » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 09:31:45

Not only that, but we're doing our best to impose similar democracy in Syria. It's almost as if our dear leaders want chaos and humanitarian disaster in these places.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 12:06:14

M_B_S wrote::-D

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/g ... 29303.html

Saif al-Islam, the most prominent son of Libya's slain leader, Muammar Gaddafi, has been sentenced to death by firing squad.

He was sentenced in absentia on Tuesday in Tripoli along with eight other senior members of the former regime, which was overthrown in 2011.
***************************************

KILL THE TYRANTS

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Any idea which of Libya's competing "governments" this court represents?
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby davep » Tue 28 Jul 2015, 12:32:59

The one that threw ours out of Tripoli, whatever their name is.

Anyway, Saif is held by another group who may not hand him over.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 04 Jan 2016, 19:07:01

Crack SAS troops are in Libya preparing for the arrival of around 1,000 British infantrymen to be sent against ISIS there in early 2016.

Special Forces including military close observation experts from the Special Reconnaissance Regiment are spearheading a major coalition offensive against the terror network.

The operation will involve around 6,000 American and European soldiers and marines - led by Italian

forces and supported mainly by Britain and France.

It comes in a bid to stop the advance of around 5,000 Islamic extremists, who have already secured more than a dozen major-oilfields to swell their war chest of millions of dollars.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... lt-7113034
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby careinke » Tue 05 Jan 2016, 17:25:48

pstarr wrote:Are the crack military forces also special? I get mixed up. Or are the special ones on crack. What is the difference? I'll bet it is the beret? And the cool lumberman beard/skinhead look. These days.


When I worked with the SAS they were pretty special.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Vipp » Thu 31 Mar 2016, 13:46:21

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/201 ... ervention/

Hillary Emails Reveal True Motive for Libya Intervention


The email identifies French President Nicholas Sarkozy as leading the attack on Libya with five specific purposes in mind: to obtain Libyan oil, ensure French influence in the region, increase Sarkozy’s reputation domestically, assert French military power, and to prevent Gaddafi’s influence in what is considered “Francophone Africa.”


This isn't definitive proof, but still... If these weren't leaked, we would have found this out 70 years later like in the Iran intervention case. Seems like you can't call these kinds of theories "conspiracies" anymore. Or you can, because they actually kind of are.
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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 01 Aug 2016, 14:03:00

Obama sent US jets back to bomb Libya today.

Explain to me again why Obama and Hillary originally wanted to go war in Libya?

Obama's decision to topple Khadaffy in Libya is like a miniature version of Bush's decision to topple Saddam in Iraq. They've both created disaster by introducing instability and openings for Islamic extremism that aren't easily repaired.

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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 31 Oct 2016, 13:15:20

John Kerry and Boris Johnson are hosting crisis talks with Libya’s leaders in London in an attempt to ward off the collapse of the country’s war-torn economy.

The World Bank has said Libya’s economy is near collapse as the civil war worsens and bank reserves plummet.

In a US-led initiative, the US secretary of state and UK foreign secretary, joined by the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, planned to urge Libya’s embattled prime minister, Fayez al-Sarraj, to enact drastic reforms.

Libya’s economy has atrophied and with oil exports down, the bulk of the 6 million-strong population depends on fast-depleting foreign reserves.

One western official said Sarraj would be urged to mend fences with the Central Bank of Libya governor, Saddek al-Kabir, who has accused the prime minister of failing to formulate an economic policy. “It is making clear the severity of the situation and the need to act,” the official said.


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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 17 Jun 2023, 19:58:54

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Re: THE Libya Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 15 Sep 2023, 20:55:20

https://twitter.com/wallacemick/status/ ... 0713666669

@wallacemick: Is @BarackObama actually serious..? Now he says he cares about the people of #Libya - Along with his #NATO friends, he helped to destroy this country, destroyed the lives of so many innocent people - Imagine if we had International Law to hold Obama + others to account...?
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