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Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 25 Jan 2015, 03:23:40

Shaved Monkey wrote:Seeing PO and telling the world
No one wants to hear that.
Dubya told Americans to go shopping now thats a leader.


Carter had gas lines. Reagan didn't. So what's that mean there was peak oil then not? That crisis was about OPEC. Overall lesson? Even Democrats had better have a pro energy policy, because nobody likes a gas line.

Carter wasn't all bad; pro working class, the last last liberal prez there was. Yet inflation was out of control and economy in bad recession. It needed some some reaganism, maybe we got too much reaganism, but it did grow the economy and fix the economic problem.

The peace accords, that was good. And he was honest. But too honest, too goody goody, and that was weakness. And so he lost to Reagan -- gas lines, inflation up, the military was weak, and he failed to free the hostages.

About W. and shopping -- what he meant by that is that no, you can't have 300 million people just staying home and not going to work or engaging in commerce. That alone is worse than terrorism -- it could crash the entire economy, everything grinding to a halt.

That's an unfair jab at Bush -- the danger of terrorism are those larger effects, being terrorized, vs. the actual incidental violence.

Australia's no different -- the economy could collapse if people panicked and did not engage in commerce and go about normal life.

EDIT: I shouldn't be such a jerk, Carter was a good man. But it's like the workplace, someone can be such a good person but just not right for the job, is all. Nixon's dishonesty got honest Carter elected, but yet a Nixon could have freed those hostages.

Enter Reagan. Iran contra was shady, but, at least he didn't break into DNC hq or have enemies lists.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sun 25 Jan 2015, 03:49:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby dinopello » Sun 25 Jan 2015, 03:38:55

Sixstrings wrote:
Shaved Monkey wrote:Seeing PO and telling the world
No one wants to hear that.
Dubya told Americans to go shopping now thats a leader.


Carter had gas lines. Reagan didn't.


Nixon imposed price controls and had gas lines as a result. Carter proposed and began the process of deregulating prices.
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Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 25 Jan 2015, 04:07:49

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Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby dinopello » Sun 25 Jan 2015, 04:46:03

Yep, Nixon and Ford in the 70's

The era of price controls is most remembered for long lines at gas stations. The controls were put in place by the Nixon and Ford administrations in reaction to a jump in fuel prices caused by cuts in production by the newly formed international oil cartel, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Back then, “price controls turned a minor adjustment into a major shortage,” said Thomas Sowell, author of “Basic Economics: A Citizen’s Guide to the Economy.”

Mr. Sowell says that although the best response would have been to let prices rise, giving oil companies an incentive to produce more and consumers an incentive to conserve, “this basic level of economics is seldom understood by the public, which often demands ‘political’ solutions that turn out to make matters worse.”

The public — as it does today — wanted low prices. But the artificially depressed pump prices imposed during the oil crisis of 1973 — which stayed in place in various iterations through 1980 — brought about lines at gas stations and an artificial shortage of gas, he said.


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By the Iranian oil crisis in 1979, the controls had grown unsustainable as oil prices escalated in global markets. With lines forming once again and fistfights breaking out at the pump, President Carter quickly waived most of the controls on oil and gas prices to make more fuel available.
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Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 25 Jan 2015, 11:09:20

dinopello wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:
Shaved Monkey wrote:Seeing PO and telling the world
No one wants to hear that.
Dubya told Americans to go shopping now thats a leader.

Carter had gas lines. Reagan didn't.

Nixon imposed price controls and had gas lines as a result. Carter proposed and began the process of deregulating prices.

This was one of the earliest and best examples of Orwellian DOUBLETHINK (I know it's rude but Orwell actually used all caps. hey it was his novel) in the GOP.

Nixon used "wage/price controls" across the economy. How's that for GOP overreach and socialism. Anyway, at some point those went away (when he resigned?) and we had an explosion of inflation. Ford came up with the "WIN button" ("Whip Inflation Now") and stickers as if lapel pins would straighten out the economy. Bold leadership there, right? but it's a nice landmark of history and stupidity that show inflation was considered a national emergency under Ford.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_inflation_now
Image

Anyway Carter was left holding the bag, and for the last 40 years the GOP has been hooting about Carter causing the mess the GOP created. If you've ever dealt with sociopaths or drug addicts, you're familiar with that strategy.

And interest rates went up because of Carter's tight fiscal policy, which is what ended inflation. That tight money supply that the GOP loves so much these days? Yep, Jimmy Carter's strategy.

And the "horrible economic mess" under Carter? He had the best four year record of job creation since LBJ. Kicked Reagans ass as a matter of fact. I was around in that period, and finding a job took about two weeks.

People like Fish have been living in their fantasy propaganda world ever since. He's been here thumping his chest and doing that victory dance for years, typing the same couple lines over and over and over. Years from now he'll still be typing the same five or six comments in whatever emotional state drives him. I think part of that is pure rage over the "liberal media" conspiracy that is supposedly preventing him from having the power that he deserves. Hey Fish, it's not the media's fault you're stuck behind a computer typing the same comments like an autistic kid staring at a piece of lint (apologies to autistic kids for comparing them to Fish!).
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Re: Obama White House: "Netanyahu spat in our face"

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 27 Jan 2015, 06:56:56

PrestonSturges wrote:Anyway Carter was left holding the bag, and for the last 40 years the GOP has been hooting about Carter causing the mess the GOP created.

...

And the "horrible economic mess" under Carter? He had the best four year record of job creation since LBJ. Kicked Reagans ass as a matter of fact. I was around in that period, and finding a job took about two weeks.


I was aware of the Nixon price controls, good job Preston expounding on some history on this.

Certainly a Reagan and a Margaret Thatcher BOTH had the same problems though around the same time -- so it was the UK too NOT JUST over here -- too much socialism, too much inflation, economy sucked.

And then both Reagan and Thatcher's early tax cuts and cut backs and privitizations caused initial economic problems, and then rebounded later just in time for them -- for Reagan, to win a second term, for Thatcher, to keep her majority in parliament.

So I find that interesting, the two paralleled each other.

Were conservatives wrong, in both places? And liberals right, after all?

But yes okay you make enough very good arguments to make me -- at least -- not drag out the Jimmy Carter line anymore. I still say though: that hostage crisis was a bunch of crap. And yes, I do know how Reagan resolved that and it was Iran contra and shady and his campaign was making deals before he was ever sworn in -- but he got it done.

Preston, the bottom line though for a centrist like me is -- just watch that actual Carter and Reagan debate. Anyone that watches that, would understand why Reagan won:

1980 Presidential Candidate Debate: Governor Ronald Reagan and President Jimmy Carter - 10/28/80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8YxFc_1b_0


Check the 16:50 mark. Journalist asks Carter about the high unemployment rate even with the jobs created (we got the same darn problem now) and THEN the reporter asks Carter if Americans must accept less and leaner times -- and Carter says "yes, we have demanded that the American people sacrifice and they've done very well." 8O :roll:

Then Reagan's response on inflation at the 19 minute mark was just devastating to Carter, he won the election right there, and the debate just goes on like that.

(we're way off topic from Israel :lol: )
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