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THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 09:41:14

Graeme wrote:Terms and conditions apply to the scheme. For example, the wind turbine must have been installed after 1 April 2010 by a certified Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) approved installer – but it's definitely worth looking into this before you get a wind turbine installed. To find out more, see our Feed-in Tariff explained guide.


Off topic side note: Just noticing how odd is sounds to hear you Brits use the word scheme in a positive way. To Americans all schemes are evil if not illegal and Schemers are villains to be watched out for. We use the words plan or proposal for positive projects. The use of schematic for electrical drawings is still used however.
Just another example of two peoples kept apart by a common language. :)
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 10:39:00

If I may inject a sobering dose of reality in all of these rosy posts about wind power:

My wife was born and raised on Nantucket, which is right across the water from where Cape Wind was proposing to build the first offshore wind farm in the USA. You remember that one, Obama called it "shovel ready" in 2007 when he was campaigning for his first term. Then right after he took office he "fast tracked" Federal energy funding for it.

In so doing, he offended a powerful group of Neo-Libs in Massachusetts, the Kennedy Clan. Even though there are four existing coal-fired power plants in the Cape Cod area and the stack effluents kill and sicken thousands of people every year, they are afraid that when they look out of their windows in the infamous "Kennedy Compound" in Hyannisport, MA they will see this:
Image
(Simulated image)

The opportunity lost is massive:
Cape Wind will produce 75% of the electricity used on Cape Cod and the Islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket in average conditions, with zero pollutant emissions, zero waste discharge, and zero water consumption.

Cape Wind will help launch the American offshore wind industry and produce significant economic, environmental, and energy benefits for Massachusetts, the region, and the nation.

Cape Wind will consist of 130 Siemens 3.6-megawatt offshore wind turbines with a capacity of 468 megawatts. The project will be located in Federal waters off the coast of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, on Horseshoe Shoal in Nantucket Sound, the most technically optimal offshore wind power site in the United States.


http://www.capewind.org/where

Now, I don't care whether you believe that Anthropogenic Global Warming is real or not, burning coal definitely sickens and kills tens of thousands of people in the USA every year, it is the dirtiest and deadliest form of power generation we have.

The problem is NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard). Even though those coal power plants already exist and saving 75% of the emissions from them would save thousands of Cape Cod residents from cancer and respiratory illnesses such as asthma and emphysema. This of course does not compare to the utter horror of the view above, or the fact that when one was sailing in the area of the wind turbines, one would have to raise oneself from a drunken stupor and actually STEER THE BOAT around those 130 wind turbines.

After 7 years of litigation, the projected cost of the electricity that MAY someday be produced from this still-in-proposal-stage offshore wind farm has risen to the point that it has exceeded that of energy produced at either the coal or nuclear power plants in the region. In this, wind energy is akin to nuclear power, the largest single expense is the legal staff required to defend every phase of construction and operations.

Similar lawsuits are afflicting land-based wind farms in California. Texas is laughing all the way to the bank as such Texas firms as CALPINE sell California the Green Wind Power mandated by state law.

Now let us all sing together:

Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
[REFRAIN]:
that suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
all our little joys relate
without that ever-present hate
but now I know that it's too late, and...
[REFRAIN]
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
so this is all I have to say.
[REFRAIN]
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
and to another give my seat
for that's the only painless feat.
[REFRAIN]
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but...
[REFRAIN]
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
[REFRAIN]
'Cause suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
...and you can do the same thing if you please.

---Theme from M.A.S.H., Mike Altman, 1970.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 13:58:09

KJ - “Texas is laughing all the way to the bank...sell(ing) California the Green Wind Power”

Two reasons why Texas is leading the development of offshore wind. First, unlike the offshore regions of Mass, etc. being controlled by the federal govt, the first 10 miles of the Texas offshore is controlled solely by the state. For all practical purposes the feds have no say as to what does or doesn’t happen out there with wind. They’ve already built the first offshore wind evaluation turbines years ago off the shoreline from Galveston. Essentially to evaluate the actual potential and maintenance requirements.

And then second reason utilities are supporting wind and other alt sources: it’s the law…they have no choice if they want to keep doing business in Texas. As you see below the right threat…eh, I mean motivation, did the trick:

The Texas Renewable Portfolio Standard was originally created by Senate Bill 7 in 1999, as part of new laws that restructured the electricity industry. The Texas RPS mandated that utility companies jointly create 2000 new MWs of renewable energy by 2009 based on their market share. In 2005, Senate Bill 20, increased the state’s RPS requirement to 5,880 MW by 2015, of which, 500 MW must come from non-wind resources. The bill set a goal of 10,000 MW of renewable energy capacity for 2025, which was achieved 15 years early, in 2010.

{Worth repeating: set a goal of…which was achieved 15 years early}

But there been a disappointing development: A developer that planned Texas’ first offshore wind farm has pulled its project. Baryonyx Corp.’s two state leases — off of South Padre Island — have expired and the company has not re-applied for a new permit three months after it pulled its permit applications for a wind farm it planned to build about five miles offshore. The wind turbines would have risen 541 feet above the water, state and federal officials said. “I believe they’ve gone away,” Kim, the Island’s director of development services, said. “They were interested but they’re not anymore.” The company did not respond to telephone calls this past week.

{We’ll have to wait for an official explanation but if I had to guess I would say the continued low price of NG is making it difficult for new wind projects such as theirs to pass economic requirements. And then there’s our abundant and cheap coal local coal. The alts haven’t been replacing the existing coal fired plants but are actually just supplementing their output. And in the meantime onshore has been able to meet the law’s requirements.}
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 14:19:15

No arguments here. The drought has deeply curbed the green Hydropower that has always been the majority portion of the renewables used in California. The state has been buying green energy to make up the deficit, and to make the mandated minimum percentage of total energy.

If the rains return, it will have been just a hiccup in the steadily rising percentage of green energy. If the drought conditions persist for future years, we might actually regress in our progress on those goals.

The lawsuits in the state are from environmental groups worried about birds killed, and similar nonsense. Everybody opposing the wind farms should be invited to stand downwind of one of our oil and natural gas fired diesel plants IMHO. You should know what both sides of the coin look like before you flip it.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 14:56:03

KJ - There was arguments from environmentalists along the Texas coast about bird kills. Their problem was they were arguing with state officials many of whom take part in the annual shooting of millions of migratory birds such as doves, ducks and geese. Granted we don't hunt hawks and whopping cranes so their loss would be tragic. OTOH, as you point out, if we weren't building wind towers we would be building more coal fired plants.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 17:40:13

We don't burn much coal in California, that would make CARB (California Air Resources Board) unhappy. So we start a diesel plant on oil, and then inject natural gas to the max, and run stack scrubbers and urea injection on the diesel exhaust. Peaking plants are gas turbines fired by 100% NG.

Coal we reserve for exports, China burns it and the pollution crosses the Pacific and impacts 7 Western states. We did add considerable diesel fuel consumption (for coal trains) and bunker fuel consumption (for coal ships).
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 23:14:23

KJ - And I suspect that since CA has to pay a premium for Texas wind power it helps justify the expansion of our turbines. But in the meantime Texas burns more lignite to meet demand that isn't being satisfied since a % of wind power being exported to CA. So for every Btu we ship to the west coast we réplace it with a Btu from burning coal or NG .

But what the hell: folks in CA feel greener and folks in Texas make some easy profits. Win-win. Sorta. LOL.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Surf » Tue 16 Sep 2014, 01:54:41

Similar lawsuits are afflicting land-based wind farms in California.


Kaiser, which wind farms in California? I did a search today and found only three wind farms having Nimby issues. One in Wyoming and one in New Mexico, and one in Montana. I found no NIMBY lawsuuits in California. The public in these three states doesn't have a lot of experience with wind yet. Once they do a lot of the NIMBY issues there will evaporate.

While it is true California is not installing as much wind a Texas it must be pointed out that california does not have a great on shore wind resource. Texas does. California is instead focusing on solar and geothermal. Both of these resources are large in california. Also Note that not all wind activity is in Texas in the first half of this year 835MW of wind was installed, only 400MW in texas. Many states are now installing wind farms. Most without any NIMBY issues.

http://awea.files.cms-plus.com/FileDownloads/pdfs/2Q2014%20AWEA%20Market%20Report%20Public%20Version%20.pdf


My wife was born and raised on Nantucket, which is right across the water from where Cape Wind was proposing to build the first offshore wind farm in the USA. You remember that one, Obama called it "shovel ready" in 2007 when he was campaigning for his first term.

In so doing, he offended a powerful group of Neo-Libs in Massachusetts, the Kennedy Clan.

The opportunity lost is massive:


Cap wind is not dead. Preliminary construction work started late last year and surveys are underway in preparation for cable and tower installations. The latest Nimby lawsuit (the 26th) was dismissed by the judge that said:

"But in this case, the Governor, the Legislature, the relevant public agencies, and numerous courts have reviewed and approved the project and the PPA with NSTAR and have done so according to and within the confines of the law. There comes a point at which the right to litigate can become a vexatious abuse of the democratic process. For that reason, I have dealt with this matter as expeditiously as possible."


http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140504/NEWS/405040338
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 16 Sep 2014, 04:38:10

The lawsuits in California all relate to bird deaths as far as I know, I did not mean we have a NIMBY problem here.

The facts are that the millions spent on the lawsuits have already doubled the price of the power produced. Cape Wind's numbers will only look good when litigation costs are excluded. The investors are already hosed by the millions spent in court.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 16 Sep 2014, 08:12:50

KJ - I wonder if those Cape Wind investors are having second thoughts for another reason: relatively cheap NG fueled electrical production. As I mentioned I wonder if the hold up of that massive offshore S Texas project resulted from lower NG prices today then what might have been projected some years ago during the planning stage. Now New England has the Marcellus booming. Between the lawsuits and potential competition from NG one might expect a complete withdrawal from the project...at least for a while.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 16 Sep 2014, 11:05:18

Rockman, you might be right - but no one else has suggested that. Note that Cape Wind already took their money, and spent it on lawyers and legal maneuverings. Now they have matching Federal funding lined up and are claiming to have started construction, if you believe the latest reports. All I can say about that is there are no obvious signs of construction that any of my in-laws can see.
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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 17 Sep 2014, 01:16:55

Study of Eastern U.S. Shows Wind Energy Could Stabilize the Grid

Last month, General Electric (GE) consulting presented the results of a U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) sponsored study testing if wind turbines can be controlled to manage the stability of the electric grid. The authors found that wind turbines might actually be a valuable tool for controlling and stabilizing the grid in the future, disputing the conventional notion that wind energy doesn’t play well with the grid. To understand the source of this counterintuitive result—and its implications—let’s review the key aspect of power grid control at play here: frequency regulation.

Frequency regulation is the process through which the grid operator maintains the frequency of the grid’s alternating current at a precise, predetermined level. In the United States, for example, grids are strictly controlled to put out electric current with a frequency of 60 Hertz. To maintain this level of frequency, the grid operator must carefully ramp power plants up and down so that the total amount of electricity flowing into the grid is perfectly balanced with the total electricity being withdrawn by electricity customers.

The balance and frequency of the electric grid can be illustrated with the analogy of a spinning merry-go-round. The grid operator’s goal is to keep the grid’s electrical frequency constant, or to keep the merry-go-round in our analogy spinning at a constant speed. To increase the speed of the merry-go-round, the grid operator can order generators to increase their power output—or literally increase the torque on their spinning turbine shafts to “push” the grid up to speed. Electricity withdrawn from the grid by customers slows down the merry-go-round in our analogy, decreasing the grid’s electrical frequency. The inertia of the merry-go-round—or its tendency to stay in motion—is determined by the mass and momentum of all of the spinning turbines and generators feeding power into the grid. The job of the grid operator is to keep the whole system in balance by regulating the flow of power into the grid so that it always matches electric load.


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 27 Sep 2014, 19:36:42

Inside The $8 Billion California Wind Energy Project

Our friends over at Fuel Fix have the scoop on a proposed $8 billion California wind energy project that could blow the socks off the regional renewable energy market. The idea would be to use Wyoming as a site for a new wind farm — which would be one of the largest in the US — and schlep the energy over to Los Angeles on new and existing transmission lines.

But, that’s not what caught our eye. The key to the $8 billion California wind energy project, the thing that helps fulfill the Los Angeles vision of a sustainable, secure energy source, would be a massive compressed air energy storage system using salt caverns in Utah.


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 02 Oct 2014, 18:46:59

Australia Could Reach Existing Renewable Energy Target With Wind Alone

Suggestions that the current Australian Renewable Energy Target of 41,000 GWh by 2020 is infeasible have been laughed off by global wind development company Windlab, who have released figures showing that not only is the target feasible, but could be met by existing approved wind energy that has simply yet to be constructed.

Windlab’s technical services arm, the WindScape Institute, conducted a study of wind resources across Australia. Their conclusions stated that to meet the Renewable Energy Target (RET) of 41,000 GWh by 2020 required 8,000 MW of renewable energy.

8 GW of renewable energy is not chump change, but according to WindScape, there is already 8 GW worth of wind capacity “fully developed, approved and ready to construct.”

Furthermore there is an additional 10,000MW of wind energy currently under development making even a 30% wind energy scenario by 2025 for Australia readily achievable.

Dr. Nathan Steggel, WindScape Institute Director, concluded that “there are no technical, financial or economic barriers to rapid and large-scale deployment of wind energy into Australia’s electricity supply.”


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 08 Oct 2014, 17:34:34

Earth Wind Map - with typhoons

The Earth Wind Map is an amazing project to visualize global weather conditions carried out by Tokyo based software engineer Cameron Beccario, resulting in a beautifully mesmerising depiction of the earth's winds. Weather data is produced by the Global Forecast System (GFS), operated by the US National Weather Service. Forecasts are produced four times daily and made available for download from NOMADS. The files are in GRIB2 format and contain over 300 records.

Formerly a Visual Basic developer with Microsoft Beccario moved to Japan in 2002 and has been developing online trading platforms.

The project, which only went live in December 2013 is the child of a former Tokyo Wind Map project, inspired by the fm/wind map of the USA says Beccario.


In detail, a gentle breeze is shown by a thin strand of green, while strong winds are bright yellow. The strongest currents are bright red.

Users can drag the globe to their desired location and click on the spot they want to find out what the wind speed is.

Users can also zoom in on the currents, which are colour-coded to show the severity of the wind. The detail is quite extraordinary. A region that looks calm at a glance is seen to be rippling with winds on closer inspection, using the mouse wheel to zoom in.


To access the 'Earth Wind Map', click here. Navigation is a matter of exploration.

If you think you might like to set up your own Earth Wind Map, click here.

Watch the video to learn more about how it works:


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 13 Oct 2014, 18:02:14

Wind power is cheapest energy, EU analysis finds

Onshore wind is cheaper than coal, gas or nuclear energy when the costs of ‘external’ factors like air quality, human toxicity and climate change are taken into account, according to an EU analysis.

The report says that for every megawatt hour (MW/h) of electricity generated, onshore wind costs roughly €105 (£83) per MW/h, compared to gas and coal which can cost up to around €164 and €233 per MW/h, respectively.

Nuclear power, offshore wind and solar energy are all comparably inexpensive generators, at roughly €125 per MW/h.

“This report highlights the true cost of Europe’s dependence on fossil fuels,” said Justin Wilkes, the deputy CEO of the European Wind Energy Association (EWEA). “Renewables are regularly denigrated for being too expensive and a drain on the taxpayer. Not only does the commission’s report show the alarming cost of coal but it also presents onshore wind as both cheaper and more environmentally-friendly.”

The paper, which was written for the European commission by the Ecofys consultancy, suggests that the Conservative party plan of restricting new onshore windfarms will mean blocking out the cheapest source of energy when environmental and health facts are taken into consideration. It has been suggested the Tory plan could be done through a cap on onshore wind turbines’ output, lower subsidies or tighter planning restrictions.


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 14 Oct 2014, 18:20:07

India’s Suzlon Energy Announces $2.5 Billion Wind Energy Investment Plan

Wind turbine maker Suzlon Energy has announced fresh plans to push on with extensive expansion of wind energy capacity across the state of Madhya Pradesh in India.

Suzlon Energy, among the leading wind turbine manufacturers and wind energy project developers, has announced plans to set up a manufacturing unit in the state of Madhya Pradesh. The plan was announced was made at the ‘Global Investors Summit’ organised by the state government.

The company intends to invest Rs 15,000 crore ($2.5 billion) to develop 2,000 MW of wind energy capacity in the state. Suzlon Energy is among the largest developers of wind energy projects and has a portfolio of 8,500 MW of the total 21,700 MW wind energy capacity installed in the country. Madhya Pradesh is home to about half of the company’s total installed capacity.

While the company has been reeling under tremendous financial strain which has resulted in accumulation of million of dollars of debt and price of the shares at the Bombay Stock Exchange fall from Rs 425 (~$7) to Rs 12 (~$0.20) over a period of five years, it maintains a strong order book worth $7.2 billion.

Having access to world-class turbine technology through its acquisitions in Europe, the company is well placed for the next phase of expansion in the Indian wind energy sector. The Indian government is believed to be working on the National Wind Energy Mission which would see 10,000 MW capacity added every year, significantly more than about 2,500-3,000 MW capacity addition per year over the last few years.


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 17 Oct 2014, 18:11:49

Wind Power Blows Away Coal and Gas in Nordic Countries

Wind power is blowing gas and coal-fired turbines out of business in the Nordic countries, and the effects will be felt across the Baltic region as the renewable glut erodes utility margins for thermal power stations.

Fossil power plants in Finland and Denmark act as swing-producers, helping to meet demand when hydropower production in Norway and Sweden falls due to dry weather.

The arrival of wind power on a large scale has made this role less relevant and has pushed electricity prices down, eroding profitability of fossil power stations.

"Demand for coal condensing power in the Nordic power market has decreased as a result of the economic recession and the drop in the wholesale price for electricity," state-controlled Finnish utility Fortum said, booking an impairment loss of about 25 million euros($31.67 million).

Nordic wholesale forward power prices have almost halved since 2010 to little over 30 euros per megawatt-hour (MWh) as capacity increases while demand stalls on the back of stagnant populations, low economic growth and lower energy use due to improved efficiency.

Short-run marginal costs (SRMC) of coal generation were 28.70 euros per megawatt-hour (MWh), the Nordic power regulators said, while costs of gas-fired power generation were much higher, at 53 euros/MWh in 2013.

"The Nordic system price will likely more often clear well below the production cost for coal fired power production," said Marius Holm Rennesund Oslo-based consultancy THEMA.

"This will, in our view, result in mothballing of 2,000 MW of coal condensing capacity in Denmark and Finland towards 2030," he added.

Adding further wind power capacity at current market conditions could lead to power prices dropping towards as low as 20 euros per MWh, the marginal cost for nuclear reactors, Rennesund said.


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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 20 Oct 2014, 18:43:45

Wind Energy Costs Super Low, Despite Heartland Shenanigans (Chart & Graphs)

That we here at CleanTechnica — and myself in particular — are big proponents of wind energy is probably of little surprise to regular readers. But we have good reason to be, given the industry’s continuing growth and popularity and technological development the world over.

Last week, we covered the preliminary report published by the European Union which highlighted wind energy’s affordability over all other forms of electricity, including coal. Hidden amidst the numbers and devoid from all the press releases was the fact that, when “externalities” are taken into account — such as air quality, climate change, human toxicity, etc — onshore wind has an approximate cost of just €105 per megawatt-hour (MWh), considerably lower than any other electricity option.

The news came from the European Wind Energy Association, as neither of the press releases published by the European Union made any mention of wind energy’s affordability.

Following that analysis, the American Wind Energy Association Friday posted a piece showing that there are in fact three recent studies, including the EU’s study, that highlight wind energy’s low cost and ability to reduce carbon emissions.

The three reports each proved that “wind energy is one of the lowest cost options for reducing carbon emissions,” with each focusing on a different attribute of wind energy’s performance.


A report from Wall Street investment firm Lazard showed that the levelised cost of energy has dropped significantly over the past few years (a 5-year percentage decreases of 58%), but now costs less than all other new generation options. In fact, scanning through the figures provided by Lazard in its report (PDF), I was impressed just how often wind energy is the cheapest form of energy across the board.


Image

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Re: THE Wind Power Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 22 Oct 2014, 17:18:25

US Wind Industry Booming, Already Surpassing 2013 Levels

The US wind industry is booming, installing more in the first 9 months of 2014 than was installed throughout all of 2013. The figures come from the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), which predicts 2014 will finish strong and push through to stepped-up installations throughout 2015.

According to the AWEA, 19 projects have already been completed in the United States this year, based on third quarter results released Monday.

“The American wind industry responded to the extension of the Production Tax Credit in 2013 by setting new records for the number of new wind farms under construction and reaching the lowest wind energy costs ever seen,” said the AWEA’s CEO, Tom Kiernan.

“With continued technological innovation, wind energy has become so affordable that it offers utilities and consumers an irresistible value,” he added, citing recent Department of Energy (DOE) data showing the cost of US wind power down by more than half over five years.

“We believe Congress will do what it takes so we can keep these U.S. factories open and offer this increasingly affordable source of electricity to more Americans, instead of seeing the 92 percent drop-off we saw in 2013 when the tax credit was last allowed to expire.”

With the cost of wind energy competing with all traditional means of energy generation, and according to some reports handily beating fossil fuels like coal, the boost to the US wind industry is no surprise.


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