[alokin]

Is coal seam gas just another name for fracking?
(Sorry, I have a lot of questions which are sometimes not easy to find in google)

[ROCKMAN]

In this case you're mixing apples and oranges. Coal seem gas is, of course, NG produced from a coal bed. It implies nothing about how its produces. Frac'ng is the process of pumping water with chemicals with sand into the ground under high pressure. It might be used or a CBM or it may not be. I'll dig in to it butI doubt many CBM wells are frac'd.

[alokin]

Thanks for the reply. I dug up some stuff meanwhile and found http://www.lockthegate.org.au/about_shale_and_tight_gas and
http://www.lockthegate.org.au/fracking helpful. They don't explain very much about the difference between shale gas and tight gas, maybe it's the same for the environment.
There was a part in the article which scared the hell out of me:

Shale and tight gasfields involve the industrialisation of entire landscapes with numerous closely spaced wells. Typical gasfields contain thousands of wells. Gasfields also require vast networks of access roads, gas pipelines, compressor stations, processing plants, and wastewater holding dams and treatment plants.

Is that true (given the source)??? Our landscape is pristine!

[ROCKMAN]

I would say that's a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there would be a lot of wells square mile. But the well head is just a pipe sticking above the ground. Most don't have pumping units. And typically numerous wells go to one tank collecting the water. The pipelines are buried. The system would bring a great many wells to a single compression station...not one at each well. Beyond that it's difficult to generalize without knowing the details. I'll look for some examples of other surface footprints of CBM developments.

What is the land currently being used for now?

[alokin]

This is the current land, mostly national park: http://stopcsgbm.net.au/docs/home.php

[ROCKMAN]

I searched CEEMAC and found no details of the company. Don't take this as a harsh criticism but if there's a resource in the CBM that can benefit the commons then it should be evaluated. But it should be done with the least amount of environmental disturbance and inconvenience for the locals. I'm in Texas and obviously with more drill rigs running here than the rest of the world combined there a big interaction between industry and the environment. And in the early days decades ago little attention was paid to that impact. But overtime the process has become much more sensitive. So there can be a compromise if both sides are willing to not demand 100%. Given how your govt mineral ownership is far different than our private ownership in the US I think the folks on the environment side of the issue need to be flexible. Unless they can overwhelm the political costs to the decision makers they’ll get very little of what they want IMHO. Better to try to have some constructive impact on the potential disturbance. I suspect taking an all-or-nothing position may gain them just that…nothing.

[Frackman]

Hi Alokin,
Mr Rockman is sort of correct, Fracking is a process that is used in the oil and gas industry. First you drill a gas/oil well then cement a steel pipe down the hole which is called well completion (that is a very basic run down). It may need fracking depending on many factors, fracking is use in old wells to make them reproduce however, tight sands and Shale wells need fracking to make them produce as soon as they are drilled. Coal Seam Gas (CSG) wells are fracked not all wells but some, the QLD government say that between 10-40% of CSG wells will be fracked in QLD. I know of some fields that have a 70% fracking rate. CSG wells have a separator on the surface which takes the water from the gas and sends it to a holding pond, the gas goes down a separate pipe to the processing plant where all the unwanted gas is stripped out leaving only the methane which is what they are after. Conventional gas wells just have a 100-150mm pipe out of the ground however, CSG wells have a fair bit of infrastructure, I would say about 25mtrs by 5 mtrs worth of pipes, tanks, solar panels, flares and control boxes. The pad they use is about the size of a tennis court which is fenced off and usually have some sort of rock over it so as to create an area rigs can return to service (work over) the well. All I can say if the gas industry is moving in next to your area fight it or move, I guarantee you your life will change and not for the better. Here are a few links to the QLD gov sites that explain more about what they use in QLD frack sites however, a word of warning only trust half of what you read as the QLD gov have been known to be liberal with the facts in other words (full off lies). Great story done on 60 Minutes (link supplied) also check out this site gasileaks.com they have lots of news clips under investigations and videos

http://pan.search.qld.gov.au/search/sea ... rofile=ehp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75fF3vi ... kF8cNrs242

Kind regards

[alokin]

What they do apparently, first they tell you that the won't frack and then later they still do it. I am very optimistic, because the area here is well organized.

[toolpush]

I am not sure who holds the leases in the Blue Mountains, but when Sydney gas was drilling in the Sydney basin, most if not all the wells were fracced, because that was the technology of the day. I know since AGL bought them out, AGL has been moving to horizontal wells which cut across the natural fractures and therefore do not require fraccing.

Eastern Star Gas in the Piligar were also using multi lateral horizontals tide back a vertical well for production.

As for land impact, I drive the Hume near Cambelltown quite frequently and pass several producing wells. Unless you knew what you were looking for, I doubt you would now what they are, as you basically see a green water tank and a bit of a shed. Of course that is a producing well, to drill the well there will be a familiar derrick and support buildings plus some workman for a month or two. Not sure why but the workers that i spoke to said it wasn't a 24 hour operation. Not sure if it was for noise, or our high penalty rates.

I image water disposal will be the big issue, as much of the Blue Mountains are in the Sydney water catchment.

What did deep throat say, follow the water, or something like that. May be they could put it through Sydney's white elephant of a desalination plant?

[sparky]

.
Don't rubbish the desalination plant , it's high class rain making magic
there is a drought....
build a massive desalination plant ...
slap massive taxes on water.....
pay off various cronies...
Presto , the rains don't stop falling , Yesterday's being a case in point

[Subjectivist]

.
Don't rubbish the desalination plant , it's high class rain making magic
there is a drought....
build a massive desalination plant ...
slap massive taxes on water.....
pay off various cronies...
Presto , the rains don't stop falling , Yesterday's being a case in point

Does El Nino bring drought conditions to Sydney? If so that desal plant might pay off this fall.

[rockdoc123]

Coal bed methane (or CSG as you put it) is somewhat different from shale gas. In the case of shales gas is present in pore spaces and also absorbed whereas in coal bed methane the gas is actually bound into the coal chemically. In shale it is necessary to frack in order to improve permeability, connect up the myriad pore spaces and allow gas to flow to the borehole. In coal bed methane the opposite is true....you do not generally want to put additional water into the coal as the method of producing is to drill wells that will generally produce nothing but water for as much as a couple of years beyond which, once the coal seam has been de-watered dry gas will be produced. Most coal has a natural cleat or orthogonal fracture system which means that once de-watered there is sufficient permeability for the gas to produce.

I'm not aware of any of the coal bed methane projects active in Canada that have used hydraulic fracking....not sure why you would do this as the water injected would normally just open up the existing cleat or natural fracture network.