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A Case for Climate Engineering

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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 22 Oct 2013, 08:10:30

Surf wrote:Tanada wrote:

Possible method 5 only slightly tested. Take SPAR type structures far out to sea and fit them with large wind turbines. Use those turbines to power pumping equipment pulling cold deep mineral rich water up from below 1000 feet/300 Meters down and spraying it out onto the surface waters. The mineral rich deep water behaves exactly like the Method 4 fertilizer above and in some ways is much simpler to accomplish. This is mimicking nature, anywhere in the deep ocean where a sea rise like a reef or island exists the ocean currents are forced upward and deep waters are brought to the surface creating some of the best fishing grounds on Earth. The Flemish Cap and Grand Banks of the Atlantic coastline are examples of this, as is the Dogger Bank in European waters.


You don't need much to pump water. A buoy with a couple of solar panels can supply enough power to run small air and water pumps. A small 10 GPM pump can pump 7000 gallons in one day assuming 12 hours of sunlight and the air pump can aerate all that water to insure it is has adequate CO2 levels. From what I have read it doesn't take a lot of fertilizer to to trigger an algae bloom.

If you string rope between the buoys you can attach and grow seaweed on the rope. Then periodically a small ship would come out and strip off some of the seaweed. On shore the seaweed can be fermented into ethanol that can be used as fuel and the waste water from the fermentation tanks can be used to fertilize farm fields. If you look at EROEI studies of Ethanol production most of the energy used to make ethanol is used to heat and pump water. Solar and wind power with flow battery backup can easily provide the needed power to run the plant.If you consider the size of the ocean and assume all cars in the future get 40 to 50 miles per gallon it might be possible to replace fossil fuel use with Ethanol from seaweed. If some of the Ethanol is placed into long term underground storage it can even be CO2 negative.

Excess fertilizer use on farm fields is currently causing large algae blooms near river deltas causing "dead zones" ere no fish can live. Growing seaweed in these areas could eliminate the dead zones, recycle the fertilizer and provide use with large quantities of ethanol. It would eliminate several problems at once with very little excess cost added to the economy.


If you want to do it on a small unit scale then an air compressor, possibly a directly coupled wind turbine or a solar electric system works just fine, you still need the thousand foot pipe for the water. The simple way to draw up the water and aerate it is to inject compressed air into the water draw pipe about 100 feet/ 30 meters down. The air bubbles rise and expand inside the pipe and both aerate and push the water up towards the surface. The fizzing mass arrives at the surface well mixed and aerated, and inertia moves it out of the way so that more water can rise up through the pipe as it exits.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby rollin » Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:08:51

Although they must be carefully assessed, ideas and technology that directly removes CO2 from the atmosphere are the best. The most sensible involve using changes in agriculture and using forest growth to remove CO2.
The idea of removing power plant CO2 is energy intensive, needs large transport systems to get it to users and will just use more fossil fuels due to inefficiencies. Not all of the CO2 will be captured at the source. How much storage is actually available and will it leak out of the oil wells over time?

This idea completely ignores huge sources of CO2, transportation and agriculture. It also ignores the CO2 produced by the methane inputs into the atmosphere.
Once in a while the peasants do win. Of course then they just go and find new rulers, you think they would learn.
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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby Timo » Tue 22 Oct 2013, 12:26:41

rollin wrote:Although they must be carefully assessed, ideas and technology that directly removes CO2 from the atmosphere are the best. The most sensible involve using changes in agriculture and using forest growth to remove CO2.
The idea of removing power plant CO2 is energy intensive, needs large transport systems to get it to users and will just use more fossil fuels due to inefficiencies. Not all of the CO2 will be captured at the source. How much storage is actually available and will it leak out of the oil wells over time?

This idea completely ignores huge sources of CO2, transportation and agriculture. It also ignores the CO2 produced by the methane inputs into the atmosphere.

This makes CO2 sound like radiation. Storage and leakage problems to overcome. Yikes!
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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 30 Oct 2013, 09:20:30

guy mcpherson has a new book out

Going Dark (i think)

just a presentation he did recently

not for the nervous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 30 Oct 2013, 18:46:35

Yes, Guy McPherson's new book is called "Going Dark" but I can't find a review of it yet. I've referred to him in the Antarctic thread of all places. His extreme views ought to be heard but they do not belong here. I will post his latest even darker view in the "Credible Scientists believe humanity close to destruction" thread. If you look carefully (it's a long post), you can see that he mentions geoengineering.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: A Case for Climate Engineering

Unread postby Threepwood » Thu 31 Oct 2013, 09:44:27

It brings up an interesting question, if we could set the thermostat wherever we wanted- where would that be?

There is an assumed premise that the pre-industrial climate around 1900 represented a perfect garden of Eden, which we'd like to maintain, rather than an emergence from a miserable little ice age that we'd rather not have to go through again.

There are several events which we know can drastically reduce the global temp, meteor strikes, volcanic activity, nuclear detonations, not to mention ice ages... in which case any extra GW heat would be extremely valuable, possible humanity's savior, because there is absolutely nothing we can do in an emergency to raise global temps quickly. And because the effects of dropping the temp a few degrees are unambiguously disastrous- they don't rely on computer models.

On the other hand, if the global temp somehow did increase significantly, and we found that we didn't like it for some reason, then it would require only a fraction of a percentage dimming of the sun with particulates to drop the temps, practically overnight if we wanted to.

There are estimates that the ideal temp, with the ideal cushion on either side would be a couple of degrees higher than today. Which would be very difficult to achieve through the direct forcing of added CO2, we'd have to hope those computer modeled feedback loops start showing up in reality
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