[Sixstrings]

On a more general point. You, Six (epitomizing the US) have had 20+ years to lead the world to the bright future, absolutely unhindered. You miserably failed, as far as the world outside the US is concerned (though the US itself is flourishing).

Huh?

Average Chinese and Russians have never seen such prosperity since the fall of communism.

Chinese are lining up to buy the new iphone and that's a lot of money in China. Russia too, it's never been so good. In communist times the politburo elites had their special grocery stores just for them, everyone else had to wait in line looking at empty shelves.

If average Russians have problems, it's the same reason average Americans do -- both our elites are getting all the income gains. We both have oligarchs. We both have the worst kind of capitalism, with you guys stuck in something like 19th century America with all that corruption.

Where is this bright future that you promised to the world with your "democracy", "free markets" and "end of history"? Instead, wars, crises and conflicts abound.

I agree. World was better off with the latter USSR still around. That USSR, under Gorbachev, was interested in stability not going off half-cocked like Putin and scaring everyone. Also the competition between superpowers was good. Alas, communism was unsustainable and people were miserable.

And Chinese detente wound up sucking for the average American. All the jobs went over there. So ya I agree radon, too bad for us the communists fell but I'm glad you guys have it better off now.

Why are you talking about "leadership" over the world now, when it is totally clear that you failed it and unable to lead.

I suppose you're right. I don't know all the details, but the West may have made mistakes with Russia in the Yeltsin years.

Goal should have been for Russia to really join Europe, rather than go down an opposing path again. Not sure how it's American's fault though, you guys sold off your state owned industries too fast and oligarchs rose up and so much corruption. What could the US and Europe have done, to nudge Russia in another direction? Massive foreign aid, like the Marshall Plan for Europe? If that would have helped then we should have.

I need to drive my six cars, gimme what I need or I will bomb you.

I have one car. If there's six cars in a lawn in my neighborhood then it's probably a halfway house or roommates.

Then it would be possible for others to take stock and see what can be done for you and somehow negotiate with you the way forward. This way you are kinda rational person.

Here's the way forward: both our countries need a strong labor party, a bit of socialism as in Europe. Your nationalists are for the oligarchs, and both our parties are for our elite and super elite.

Instead, you grab this crazy Polish stories that some nutcases suck from their fingers

Poles are worried about Russia for some reason, they're the ones living next to you I see no reason to doubt them.

You really don't think these war games were a message for Poland? And Eastern Europe? Can you link any sources that show the wargames' fictional target was not named "Poland?" Why would Russia war game amphibious landings, in Europe? What's the point of that?

Is the tactical nuke part of the wargames true, or false?

[radon1]

Average Chinese and Russians have never seen such prosperity since the fall of communism.

Not sure about the Chinese, but as far as Russians are concerned - this is a big question mark.

If average Russians have problems, it's the same reason average Americans do -- both our elites are getting all the income gains. We both have oligarchs. We both have the worst kind of capitalism, with you guys stuck in something like 19th century America with all that corruption.

Yes.

You really don't think these war games were a message for Poland? And Eastern Europe? Can you link any sources that show the wargames' fictional target was not named "Poland?" Why would Russia war game amphibious landings, in Europe? What's the point of that?

I think that these were not a message, these were simply military drills. Nice that they hold them after the years of complete neglect and given the current security situation. As far as the need for these drills, I defer to the General Staffs' assessment of the security situation, this is their job. And this is their job to designate the potential targets. It does not matter how the US staff designates the potential targets - they are always ready to attack any target (like Damascus) at a short notice. So all these games with making up funny names is a waste of time, the result is the same.

Is the tactical nuke part of the wargames true, or false?

I have no idea. See no problem if this is true. If you have tactical nukes, then you should be trained in using them from time to time. Otherwise they are not needed and you should rather decommission them.

[radon1]

Why are you talking about "leadership" over the world now, when it is totally clear that you failed it and unable to lead.

I suppose you're right. I don't know all the details, but the West may have made mistakes with Russia in the Yeltsin years.

This is not about Russia, this is about the rest of the world. Russia's fate is Russia's own responsibility, all the needed resources and capabilities are in there.

[sparky]

.
Here is the official site of the exercise .
http://www.mil.by/en/news/20707/
its not as big as the Cold Response 2012 when NATO was practicing the invasion of Murmansk
including population control.
http://mil.no/excercises/coldresponse20 ... /area.aspx

It totally cheesed off the Russians ,
http://www.natowatch.org/node/635


On Zapad 2013
"The exercises will be observed by military and diplomatic officials accredited at the Belarusian Defense Ministry. Military observers from Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine will also attend the exercises.

The exercises will take place in Belarus from September 20 to September 26 and involve about 13,000 servicemen, including about 10,000 servicemen from Belarus and 2,500 servicemen from Russia. Over 50 aircraft and helicopters, 350 units of armored vehicles, including about 70 tanks, will be involved in the maneuvers.

The exercises will also involve about 300 servicemen of Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. They will improve combat skills within the CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization) Collective Rapid Reaction Force maneuvers code-named Interaction 2013.

[ROCKMAN]

sparky - For all the chatter that doesn't sound like much of exercise for the attention it's getting IMHO. There have been summertime maneuvers by National Guard troops in Texas that were bigger. LOL.

[americandream]

Communism (living communally and minus infinte growth based around endless accumulation) is unsustainable?

Do you really have a clue what communism is, sixstrings?

[sparky]

.
@Rockman , agreed , a parachute brigade , a tank regiment and some military police , that about it for the Russian side
they got more stuff out for a May day parade

[ROCKMAN]

sparky - Or for Mardi Gras season in my hometown, New Orleans. LOL. I have to think it's to get out some political message. But I can't imagine what it might be. Maybe more about local politics.

[dorlomin]

No one is going to invade Poland.

Why the hell would they do that? In an era of GPS bombs and cruise missiles, how the hell could you do that? Lines of communication would be broken to hell. Every bridge gone and every replacement pontoon bridge lasting a few hours before it goes. Russia is about as capable of invading Poland as America is of invading Russia. Any Russian adventurism will likely be confined to east of the Black Sea, unless they end up getting involved in the Ukraine, they do have a large ethnically Russian population there.

[dissident]

No one is going to invade Poland.

Why the hell would they do that? In an era of GPS bombs and cruise missiles, how the hell could you do that? Lines of communication would be broken to hell. Every bridge gone and every replacement pontoon bridge lasting a few hours before it goes. Russia is about as capable of invading Poland as America is of invading Russia. Any Russian adventurism will likely be confined to east of the Black Sea, unless they end up getting involved in the Ukraine, they do have a large ethnically Russian population there.

I always found the British meddling in Russian-Ukrainian affairs peculiar. There is more ethnic difference between the Welsh and the English, yet they live in the same country. According to the recipe for "freedom" that the UK governments have been preaching for decades the UK should be split into Wales, England, Scotland and Nothern Ireland. Recognition of the Bolshie ethnic border games is another obscenity.

Russia simply has no interest in Poland. Why in Hell would they invade it? To put the locals on welfare? There are no resources and markets in Poland worth controlling. And the days of gunboat mercantilism are pretty much gone.

[radon1]

L’armée suisse simule l’attaque d’une France surendettée
Menace — Dans un nouvel exercice de l’armée, le Jura français rebaptisé «Saônia», appuyé par la Brigade libre de Dijon, menace d’attaquer la Suisse si elle ne reprend pas une partie de sa dette.

http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/armee-suisse-simule-lattaque-dune-france-surendettee/story/28550466

[Peak_Yeast]

And thus was the "excess" wealth of the world used - right up to the endgame. Instead of mitigating actual problems. Im sure all these military guys and politicians feel terribly intelligent...

[americandream]

No one is going to invade Poland.

Why the hell would they do that? In an era of GPS bombs and cruise missiles, how the hell could you do that? Lines of communication would be broken to hell. Every bridge gone and every replacement pontoon bridge lasting a few hours before it goes. Russia is about as capable of invading Poland as America is of invading Russia. Any Russian adventurism will likely be confined to east of the Black Sea, unless they end up getting involved in the Ukraine, they do have a large ethnically Russian population there.

I always found the British meddling in Russian-Ukrainian affairs peculiar. There is more ethnic difference between the Welsh and the English, yet they live in the same country. According to the recipe for "freedom" that the UK governments have been preaching for decades the UK should be split into Wales, England, Scotland and Nothern Ireland. Recognition of the Bolshie ethnic border games is another obscenity.

Russia simply has no interest in Poland. Why in Hell would they invade it? To put the locals on welfare? There are no resources and markets in Poland worth controlling. And the days of gunboat mercantilism are pretty much gone.

There is a lingering suspicion of the Russian intelligensia which will be with us for a few decades yet. Unlike the Chinese who simply rolled over and raised their behinds to world capital, the Russians were beaten senseless in '80's Afghanistan (with a whole heap of help from that other monument to reaction, Islam.)