The Post Peak Habitat / Doomstead pt 2 (merged)

[Pops]

Good Newf and ironic about fracking running up the price of a good doomstead, LOL.

I don't know whether exurbanites are a net loss though vt. They add to the tax base so improve local infrastructure which is a big thing. My small town (<5k) is right between 2 larger towns about 40 miles either direction. It's a typical failing small midwest ag town consistently losing population and commerce to the bigger towns. Over the last 15 or 20 years though it has gained a commuters population in the surrounding country because the schools are pretty good and also had quite a bit of investment in rehabbing the town residences themselves during the RE Boom.

The net effect has been a big improvement in roads, a new middle school, a new high school a new courthouse and jail and improvements to the sewer plant and library. All that stuff will be here for a long time and might be the last big spurt of infrastructure spending for a long time. The only downside is some woods cleared and subdivided into 10 acre lawns. I see this as a good thing for a county of 40k people, it does seem like a rare confluence of events at just this particular moment.

[Pops]

[Premature submitilation]

The only downside is he theoretically raises my tax value some, I think I pay $600/year now, up from $500 8 years ago so not much.

Point being, the exurb commuter doesn't work here, probably (unfortunately) doesn't shop here, he is just a townie with a longer commute and bigger lawn. He has no tie to the country and will fold and move back to town if/when the system he depends on fails, leaving the improvements his property tax paid for here.

[Newfie]

Interesting you use the word "townie". In Newfoundland a "townie" is someone from St. Johns. Newfoundlands population was much more widely distributed around but first resettlement and the the cod moratorium have relocated it.

Now nearly half of the population resides in the greater St. johns area.

Consequently houses in small, and I mean small, communities are peanuts. We paid $32,000 for a 900 ft cottage with a water view. Twice I have seen humpbacks jump clear from the back deck, and we don't spend a lot of time there. But acreage is expensive here do to quirks in the land grant system I don't fully understand. Nova Scotia land is much more affordable.

But I am afraid we never learn. The cod economy collapsed with the moratorium. Battle Harbor was about 1000 souls. With the moratorium they shut down the operation and literally gave away the store, to the government. The town is now operated as a museum with NO permanent residents.

So you would think people here understand the need for diversity?

Newfoundland imports 95% of its food, very little agriculture even though it did much better in the distant past.

Money now comes form either Grand Banks operations or working in the Tar Sands, which many do. If this were Guatemala they would call it "remittances."

So I think this makes Pops argument, that people will easily fold and move to town rather than struggle for independence.

Sitting in St. Pierre right now. What a difference. This really is a small bit of France, with French women

Of course St. Pierre is almost 100% supported by France, as Greenland is supported by Denmark.

I think it would be an interesting project to study a few of these isolated cultures to see how modern man reacts to economic distress. Newfoundland, St. Pierre, Greenland, Cuba, perhaps Argentina. Did you know that in the early 1900's the was a saying that is someone was really rich they were "as rich as an Argentinian."

I believe that it would show that in difficult times modern man ( as opposed to our Scottish, Irish, etc forefathers) run to the cities. Back then the cheap resource was wood and farmland. Now it is ff energy.

Oopsie!

[Newfie]

I think in the rural northeast in a rail town surrounded by ample water and farmable land is the best place.... at least a tank and a half away from the major cities... There are a lot of train lines in the Northeast...

MrEnergyCzar

Could you please provide just one example of what you mean.

I live in the NE and work in transit and can't think of any.

If it has any kind of reasonable transit then it is a bedroom community.

If not a bedroom community, then no decent rail transit. Hand in hand.

[vtsnowedin]

Good Newf and ironic about fracking running up the price of a good doomstead, LOL.

I don't know whether exurbanites are a net loss though vt. They add to the tax base so improve local infrastructure which is a big thing. My small town (<5k) is right between 2 larger towns about 40 miles either direction. It's a typical failing small midwest ag town consistently losing population and commerce to the bigger towns. Over the last 15 or 20 years though it has gained a commuters population in the surrounding country because the schools are pretty good and also had quite a bit of investment in rehabbing the town residences themselves during the RE Boom.

The net effect has been a big improvement in roads, a new middle school, a new high school a new courthouse and jail and improvements to the sewer plant and library. All that stuff will be here for a long time and might be the last big spurt of infrastructure spending for a long time. The only downside is some woods cleared and subdivided into 10 acre lawns. I see this as a good thing for a county of 40k people, it does seem like a rare confluence of events at just this particular moment.

I agree that they are an asset at present as they bring their income out to the rural community but as you say they vote for improvements in infrastructure that they are helping to pay for at present but most of these are bonded and will be still in each years tax bill for twenty years or more. Let times get tough and the horse owners will sell out and move back to town leaving us to finish paying for the empty school and under used sewer plant. Their biggest weakness is that they have no real do it yourself skills and if push comes to shove will have to be cared for or directed at every turn and it will be very few that ever pull their own weight.

[Revi]

A lot of rural areas are going to be uninhabitable due to lack of law and order. The place I live in may go either way, but without security it's not worth having a farm in a place like this.

[Newfie]

A lot of rural areas are going to be uninhabitable due to lack of law and order. The place I live in may go either way, but without security it's not worth having a farm in a place like this.

Something happen to bring this up Revi?