THE Solar & Wind Power Thread (merged)

[SeaGypsy]

Building and distribution 10 billion solar panels will not be efficient. Grid systems are much more efficient than stand alone, in terms of resources for manufacture and storage. Batteries are horribly wasteful things looked at over a lifetime, solar PV is terrible compared to solar thermal, which also works far better at scale.

[davep]

But local generation in rural areas can also help the grid, as they tend to be at the end of the line where it is too expensive to improve infrastructure. Local generation into the grid can be very useful.

[sunweb]

Solar can't supply itself. It is not reproductive. It is an extension of the fossil fuel supply system. Can it mine the copper, the aluminum, the rare metals? Can it then process all the necessary components, transport them to the next site for part fabrication and the transport them to the next site for assembly? And after all the energy used for it can it make enough energy to reproduce itself the next time and still make the products (hopefully necessary) to have appliances and motors? I lived off the grid for 30 years with solar electric and wind and not at any moment was I disconnected from the fossil fuel line.
see: http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/12/ma ... aking.html
and
http://sunweber.blogspot.com/2011/10/to ... -bulb.html for starters.

[SeaGypsy]

But local generation in rural areas can also help the grid, as they tend to be at the end of the line where it is too expensive to improve infrastructure. Local generation into the grid can be very useful.

Grid to scale appropriate application seems the go. Stand alone systems for isolated properties, micro grid collective generation for villages, large systems for industrial centers and cities. PV on rooftops in cities are a band aid on an arterial spurter.

[prajeshbhat]

If you have some money saved up by now, its better to buy a stand alone energy systems which does not require a continuous supply of fossil fuels. Solar panels can last 30 years. So instead of buying a brand new car, i would buy a solar PV system. I can do just as well with a used car, or public transportation. Also, LED lights can last for a decade or longer.

No, solar and wind cannot reproduce. So you better buy them now while this industrial manufacturing infrastructure is still functional and the stand alone systems are available in the market. If the infrastructure collapses, their production may be stopped all together.

[SeaGypsy]

If/ when that happens; it's mostly game over. Defending and producing enough to survive will become far more important than having electricity.

[prajeshbhat]

Having a solar powered water pump will go a long way in helping you grow food.

[SeaGypsy]

True, those things are cool; a lot of remote stand alone systems are being used in northern Australia. Many places windmills and solar PV combined work very well for irrigation.
The PV versions go from this:


To this.


Depending on the depth of the water table they can be amazingly good. I worked with a 3kw system 16 meters above the artesian basin in the NT which had no problem irrigating 2 hectares of mango orchard with enough left over for an acre of vegies.

[Graeme]

California Renewable Energy Forecast Just Keeps Getting Brighter

California Renewable Energy Forecast Just Keeps Getting Brighter
July 29, 2012 By Silvio Marcacci
The forecast for renewable energy in California, already America’s strongest solar market, just keeps getting brighter.

Renewable energy represented 20.6 percent of the electricity mix from the state’s three biggest utilities at the end of 2011, up from 17 percent in 2010. While slightly off the 20 percent renewables by 2010 goal set in 2002, the jump suggests the state may reach its ambitious 33 percent by 2020 renewable portfolio standard.

But a wider look at the state reveals it’s not just the state’s big three utilities that are boosting renewables. A new report from the Union of Concerned Scientists found that the thirteen biggest utilities in California, representing 87 percent of all retail electricity sold in the state, generated 30 percent of their electricity from renewables and large-scale hydropower in 2010.

While renewables are growing fast across California, solar power is set to
grow exponentially in the Golden State. PG&E, the state’s largest utility expects solar to jump from one percent of its total renewable portfolio to a staggering 40 percent by 2020.

cleantechnica

[nsdivene]

It's a very young technology and they [Eskom] are justifiably very uncomfortable with suggesting that they should rely on CSP. I would not rely on CSP today. However, there are nations in the world... where they realise that concentrating solar power is going to be an extremely important part of the mix."

A study done by organisations including Greenpeace, the European Solar Thermal Electricity Association, and the International Energy Agency found that increased investment of €2bn to €92bn into CSP until 2050 would see the technology being able to supply 25% of the world's energy needs.

Link deleted - davep

[prajeshbhat]

But that energy will not be consumed immediately. The Europeans will have to wait till 2050. The only things people spend money on are the things that provide instant gratification (oil, coal etc.) or when there is a possibility of monetary profit (stocks, treasuries etc..) or on things that gives them a sense of superiority and domination (war etc..). It's pretty hard to convince people to spend €92bn year after year on something that is only meant to serve the common good 40 years from now. Most of the existing taxpayers would probably be dead by then. Even if they are alive, they will have to share the output with everyone else. Nobody really likes that. So we are probably just going to burn every last drop of oil, every last chunk of coal and every last cubic feet of natural gas we could lay our hands on (all of which would be unaffordable to most of us by 2050 ironically). After that we will just lament the lack of jobs in the market.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Invest in small scale solar power (PV) today only to have it confiscated by .gov tomorrow under some eminent domain laws.
Before system goes to hell where it belongs they will rob everyone of anything useful to postpone collapse for a while.
OK, you can hide your PV in shed but there they will be good for nothing.

[prajeshbhat]

If you are scared that the government will confiscate you solar panels, you could do the following.
First, be as far away from the grid as possible. The effort it will take to actually travel hundreds of miles to confiscate the system which only produces a few hundred watts and transport it back should discourage them.
Second, there are non silicon based panels that don't really look like conventional panels. They are just black and look like carpets rather than panels. You can cleverly disguise them to look like roofing material.
There are other ways. Surely, smart people will figure out many new ways to protect their panels.

[prajeshbhat]

Solar panels are great, but people will have to learn to make do with a lot less KWhs. Reducing your energy consumption from 30 KWh a day to 5 KWh a day. Read Tom Murphy's Do The Math blogs. He explains how he did it. And he is a University Physics professor who works on the general theory of relativity.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Solar panels are great, but people will have to learn to make do with a lot less KWhs. Reducing your energy consumption from 30 KWh a day to 5 KWh a day.

Spot on.

I noticed Graeme's post proclaiming 4000W systems for "only $10,000". Well, that's nice, but I'm installing a whole-house generator to prevent long outage problems from ice storms, flooded basements, etc. I'm getting a 20,000W system for well under $10,000 installed.

And guess what? I will have to watch what I run simultaneously, or I could max out the generator and shut it down. Microwaves, hair dryers, air conditioners, stoves, and even lots of light bulbs use a significant amount of power.

So, unless you want to spend more like $80,000 to $100,000 to power that McMansion most people so strongly desire -- citing a $10,000 system is a fraud.

[Ferretlover]

There can be no doubt that solar is important--looks like we're getting more and more sunshine every year. (Well, at least it sure feels that way!!)

[Lore]

Solar panels are great, but people will have to learn to make do with a lot less KWhs. Reducing your energy consumption from 30 KWh a day to 5 KWh a day.

Spot on.

I noticed Graeme's post proclaiming 4000W systems for "only $10,000". Well, that's nice, but I'm installing a whole-house generator to prevent long outage problems from ice storms, flooded basements, etc. I'm getting a 20,000W system for well under $10,000 installed.

And guess what? I will have to watch what I run simultaneously, or I could max out the generator and shut it down. Microwaves, hair dryers, air conditioners, stoves, and even lots of light bulbs use a significant amount of power.

So, unless you want to spend more like $80,000 to $100,000 to power that McMansion most people so strongly desire -- citing a $10,000 system is a fraud.

The solution is simple, smaller homes that use less energy. Need trumps desire everytime.

[Graeme]

Five Key Takeaways from the U.S. Solar Market Trends Report

The solar market, while relatively young, is an increasingly important part of the American economy. My latest IREC report answers important questions about the solar market. What are the trends in the market, and what forces are at work? Which sectors of the market are strongest, and why? What are the prospects for solar energy in the near future?

1. Photovoltaic markets are growing quickly

Last year was another banner year for solar, with large increases in both the number and average size of photovoltaic (PV) installations. The capacity of PV installations in 2011 more than doubled, compared with 2010 installations. More utility-scale systems and an increase in the average system size accounted for this dramatic growth. The total capacity of utility and nonresidential systems installed in 2011 increased by 145% and 132% respectively compared with 2010. The average size of all PV installations grew 64% in 2011, to 29 kWDC.

2. Installations are concentrated in a few states

In 2011, more than two-thirds of grid-connected PV system installations were concentrated in California, New Jersey, Arizona and New Mexico, as shown. Of the top 10 states, Arizona had the highest growth, with more than 4.5 times as many installations as the year before. The market more than tripled in New Mexico and New York, and more than doubled in California, New Jersey and Hawaii. On a per capita basis, six states — Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, New Jersey and New Mexico — had more installations than California in 2011, demonstrating how the market is diversifying across the country.
3. Utility-sector PV installations more than doubled in 2011 compared to 2010

The utility sector’s share of all U.S. grid-connected PV installations grew from virtually none in 2006 to 15% in 2009, to 32% in 2010, and to 38% in 2011. Of the 10 largest PV installations in the United States, five were installed in 2011. The two largest U.S. PV installations installed in 2011 were the 49-megawatt DC (MWDC) Mesquite Solar 1 Plant in Arlington, Ariz., which supplies power to Pacific Gas and Electric Co. customers in northern California, and the 35-MWDC plant in Webberville, Texas, which supplies power to Austin Energy.

4. The average size of non-residential distributed installations is increasing

The capacity of non-residential sector installations, like government buildings, retail stores, warehouses, and military installations, more than doubled in 2011 compared to 2010. The average size of a non-residential distributed installation grew by an astounding 46%. The largest installations to date in this sector were a 9-MWDC installation at Gloucester Marine Terminal in Gloucester City, N.J., and a 6-MWDC installation at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Favorable economics for consumers and a rush to complete installations before the expiration of the Treasury 1603 Grant program at the end of 2011 fueled this explosive growth.

renewableenergyworld

[Graeme]

The Key to Exponential Solar Growth Is Virtual Net Metering — and Solar Companies

On August 15, 2012, at 8 a.m., Colorado’s Xcel utility opened up its registration for a new solar gardens/virtual net metering program. It took just 30 minutes to shut the doors on applications. The utility had received 13.5 MW in those 30 minutes, more than triple the 4.5 MW allowed. This excitement is one reason why I believe that community solar is the key to widespread U.S. solar adoption, but let's go through all of them...plus the challenges to it ever happening.

Right now there are relatively few solar gardens/net metering/community solar programs in the United States. The most notable and successful ones are in Sacramento via the SMUD, as well as an earlier solar gardens program in Colorado. Currently, California law allows for community solar on site, limiting roof space on buildings. However, a new bill, SB 843, will allow off-site solar virtual net metering, a.k.a. community solar.

Another reason why I'm bullish on widespread community solar is Solar Mosaic, a new company that allows individuals to invest in solar through a Solar PPA model. Here, instead of a utility bill directly benefiting from the watts, a consumer invests in a large solar PPA project and basically becomes an equity partner, earning an ROI.

In the two models above, roof or property ownership is not required, so renters and tree-lined-street lovers can enjoy solar benefits and savings. Also, because the actual solar installation is off-site, perfect insolation, roof age, home-owner vanity, and belligerent home owner associations are no longer in the way of sales. In addition, unlike physical PV, these panels can virtually follow you to a new residence, though typically within the same utility area.

renewableenergyworld

IREC’s 2011 Solar Market Trends Report found that the U.S. saw 1.8 gigawatts of grid-connected solar power, consisting of 64,000 new solar installations across the U.S. The growth was most dramatic among utilities, which grew 145 percent and non-residential systems, which grew 132 percent over 2010. The annual report also found that residential solar grew at a rate of 24 percent. And it anticipates that solar installations will grow at an even faster pace in 2012.

cleanenergyauthority

[Graeme]

U.S. puts more effort behind solar energy

The U.S. Energy Department announced it would work with national researchers to help develop advanced solar power technologies.

U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu said there's been "explosive" growth in the international solar energy market.

"American companies are helping to lead this dramatic progress, driving lower costs and introducing new, better performing technologies into the marketplace," he said in a statement.

The Energy Department said a $2.6 million investment would fund research programs that help advance solar energy performance and decrease associated costs.

upi