LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[SeaGypsy]

Yeah man my ancestors are rich. They had me out picking pumpkins at dawn from 12 years old on Sundays and 5.00 am paper rounds the others, to pay for my hugely expensive habits: roller skating and surfing. I have either rented or been homeless for my entire life since I was 15, when I was booted out for taking my mum's mayoral Volvo for a spin. I have never had more than $7k in the bank and I have never bought a car less than 5 years old. I would have a lot of trouble scratching up $10k. I have never been able to afford the time to get an education as I have always had to earn, so what status I have at work came from work, not from connections or bits of paper. So ok call me a silver spooner if you like. If you are correct I shall find out at the reading of my mother's will. By then I shall likely be in my late 60's. If I become rich I shall visit and share some fine kush with you.

[diemos]

There are now so many organizations, some of which are highly reputable, reporting this phenomenon

although none of them can actually produce a working device for independent third party testing

that we now seem to be

stuck in

the stage of calling all these observations fraudulent or the result of improper measurements.

[diemos]

Enough

baseless claims

have been released by the various experimenters to conclude that the effect being reported is not "conventional" nuclear fusion

, or any other kind of fusion for that matter,

such as takes place in the sun or a hydrogen bomb and which requires extremely large amounts of energy to initiate.

Bushnell reports that NASA is currently

desperately searching for a new mission to keep their funding going now that manned space flight is kaput.

[Rune]

NASA has plenty of missions. The space cargo business is being privatized by the likes of SpaceX and Burt Rutan's company. Plenty of foreign competition in the business, etc. The Shuttle wasn't good at that sort of thing.

It's nice to see you desperately making up lies.

[X-prize]

What's Up with these?

http://www.opensourcelenr.com/

http://shutdownrossi.com/

****************************************************

[SeaGypsy]

That there is unlimited power available in the atom.
Unlimited clean, green, non-polluting, modular, and personnel energy for heating, cooling, electricity, fresh water, transportation, farming, industry, space operations, etc.
That this power so far has been tamed for only military and corporate interests.
That low energy and low temperature, atomic and nuclear energy creating reactions are possible.
That the world has only seen the tip of the iceberg in our understanding of reality relating to things like the mind, mass, space, and time.
That if Rossi continues his farce till completion, he will do more damage to the LENR field then all other opposition since 1989.
That the world now has a truly open source project to tame the power in the atom for all people. It is the Open Source LENR Project. See it here: http://www.opensourcelenr.com/
It will take a while to get all of the pages populated with the relevant information, because I am only going to spend a little of my spare time on this project. So check back often for updated information.

Joy & Peace
Gary Wright
May 28, 2012

"They" have got 'free energy' conspiracy nutter....
Whenever I meet one I can't resist asking if 'they got all this unlimited free energy, oil is a marketing scam' I can't help asking why then don't they use this 'unlimited energy' to catch CO2 and turn it into oil? They could do it in secret or whatever and save a lot of nasty wars? More sillyness as the century of idiocracy gets into it's second decade....

[diemos]

http://nucat-energy.com/nucat-energy-leadership/

NUCAT Energy Leadership

David J. Nagel deals with technical and programmatic functions of the company. He received a BS degree in Engineering Science (Magna Cum Laude), an MS degree in Physics and a PhD in Materials Engineering. During a half century, Dave has had three successful careers: Officer in the US Navy. After graduating first in his Naval ROTC class, he had four years of active duty and 26 years of reserve service, including three tours as a Commanding Officer. He retired in 1990 with the rank of Captain, U. S. Naval Reserve. Federal Government Scientist and Manager. Dave joined the civilian staff of the Naval Research Laboratory after his active duty. As a member of the Senior Executive Service and leader of a physics division for over a dozen years, he managed the experimental and theoretical research and development efforts of 150 government, contractor and other personnel, including 80 PhDs ($30M/year). University Teacher and Researcher. For the past dozen years, Dave has been a Research Professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering of The George Washington University. He taught graduate level courses on MEMS and NanoTechnology. Now, Dave mentors both undergraduate and graduate students. His current research centers on low energy nuclear reactions.

Carol Ann Nagel provides financial and administrative functions for the LLC. Her academic background is in business. During her twenties, she set up the accounting system for a new company, while also working in the banking industry in Chicago. Carol worked briefly in a law office, and was a manager for a sales company for several years. Later, she did the accounting and taxes for three family-owned corporations in Arlington, Virginia, for over a dozen years.

Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. Get 40 people down to the local holiday inn and that's $60K. Do that three times a year and I'm earning $180K a year. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.

[Ferretlover]

http://nucat-energy.com/nucat-energy-leadership/ ...
Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.

$1500 ain't s*** for people with a genuine business interest. Talk to some of the leaders in the field, charge it to corporate, take deductions, networking and all that... Happens all the time.

I guess for anonymous internet Ad hom deleted. that's a lot of money. You'll just have to read this thread. Now, go off on some anti-capitalist rant like a good communist.

[Alcassin]

Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. Get 40 people down to the local holiday inn and that's $60K. Do that three times a year and I'm earning $180K a year. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.

It is, but you have to sell good bulls*** story (the more innovative it sounds the better). And then you have to get some radical followers (like Randi's hoax - Carlos).
I saw that in NLP and other new age stuff. NLP business just blossoms on human ignorance, hope and fear. It's not hard to see a very similar pattern in other imaginary "technologies".

[Rune]

I saw that in NLP and other new age stuff. NLP business just blossoms on human ignorance, hope and fear. It's not hard to see a very similar pattern in other imaginary "technologies".

Or in your case, an imaginary imaginary technology.

Even Tom Whipple of Peak Oil Crisis fame has said that too much evidence has been observed and that there are now upwards of six different competitive business interests involved in a race to market; said the scam hypothesis was "absurd"

Tell Tom Whipple its all imaginary... the rest of his stuff must be too, I suppose.

[Alcassin]

Argument from authority.
Show me one working device that's not connected to the electric grid. Then maybe I may lose some reservations, but I have got more of them while reading your "coverage". Creationists watch "The Flintstones" if it were documentary, and you watch "The Jetsons" in the same fashion.

The scam hypothesis isn't absurd, we have huge hype about the stuff, that's all. Moreover I wrote that I think many people like Piantelli have a benign faith in those things. I'm rather keen on thinking that there are people who really believe it, some bad scientists, just like in homeopathy, and others are pathological scammers and liars - like Rossi. Faith and ignorance are just a good ground for frauds.

[Rune]

Argument from authority.
Show me one working device that's not connected to the electric grid. Then maybe I may lose some reservations...

So far we an effect with highly exothermic properties that are not well understood, as Dr. Nagel explained.

Operational prototypes are forthcoming from Defkalion in July/August and Leonardo in October 2012. In the meantime, this thread follows developments in LENR whatever they may be.

Why is this so hard for everyone here to understand?

[Rune]

When you go up against "Carlhole" you know you're going to lose.

[Alcassin]

When you go up against "Carlhole" you know you're going to lose.

Humbleness and modesty by a true believer.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Operational prototypes are forthcoming from Defkalion in July/August and Leonardo in October 2012. In the meantime, this thread follows developments in LENR whatever they may be.

I thought that Leonardo is already selling such prototypes... to phantom military customers

[Rune]

Rossi's Blog

Dear Andrea Manganelli:
...I am very practical: I am not at all interested to theories of “gurus” who explain theories more or less TCL ( time-consuming-and-losing). I am exclusively interested to apparatuses able to work. In our field we are too much filled up with theorists who write stupidities of which they are not liable because they have not to produce something that actually works. Take for example the ridiculous theories coming from the “papers” of Widom, Larsen and accolites: they suppose groundless behaviours of virtual particles just if they could behave like Fermions, and they simply ignore the leptons’ conservation law: this is ridicolous, but the “theoretical gurus” are all around this pure loss- of- time- theory, just because none of them has the anxiety deriving from the necessity to make the money necessary to refund the expenses of the research : they just ask for money of the taxpayer, like the other (Italian) guru who is using since 20 years the taxpayer’s money to make ridiculous research on the cold fusion electrilytic processes. This is also why we count on our Customers to repay ourselves, while they ask for Taxpayer’s contribution. Some imbecile has written that we are sellers, not scientists: well we are scientists who want not to steal the money of the taxpayers, therefore we have to sell our (really working) products. While they make mental masturbations with ridiculous theories totally groundless, we are working 16 hours per day to make real working products. With our money, not with money of the Taxpayers.

All this is not from your comment, but your comment has triggered this answer after I read from a blog a letter of an imbecile who says we are not scientists, but sellers. I got the chance to repeat that to “think” without to be able to make anything useful is a loss of time, if made without money, and is a fraud if made with the money of the Taxpayer. In Italy we have a paradigmatic example of this, specifically in the LENR field.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

He must be referring to Piantelli, "the Italian guru" of LENR.

[Rune]

When you go up against "Carlhole" you know you're going to lose.

Humbleness and modesty by a true believer.

I believe the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions are real. That's pretty much well-established by hundreds of researchers worldwide. But I don't have any opinion on rossi or defkalion until they show an undeniable working device.

[diemos]

Take for example the ridiculous theories coming from the “papers” of Widom, Larsen and accolites: they suppose groundless behaviours of virtual particles just if they could behave like Fermions, and they simply ignore the leptons’ conservation law: this is ridicolous,

How odd.

Rossi says the Widom-Larsen theory is ridiculous.

I thought you were telling us that Widom-Larsen explains everything Carl.

[Rune]

Take for example the ridiculous theories coming from the “papers” of Widom, Larsen and accolites: they suppose groundless behaviours of virtual particles just if they could behave like Fermions, and they simply ignore the leptons’ conservation law: this is ridicolous,

How odd.

Rossi says the Widom-Larsen theory is ridiculous.

I thought you were telling us that Widom-Larsen explains everything Carl.

That wasn't me; that was NASA.

Strange you would be confused about that.

[Keith_McClary]

That's pretty much well-established by hundreds of researchers worldwide.

That's mostly dozens of items each from a handful of names.