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"It is not possible to continue infinite consumption and infinite population growth on a finite planet.”
-- Michael Ruppert, WSJ, 4/11/09


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THE Transition Phase Thread (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Moderator: Pops

Re: We’re half-assing the clean-energy transition

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 29 Apr 2012, 22:40:22

Graeme wrote:Yes but both reports state that moving to gas is not enough.


Its a heck of a lot better then moving to coal.

Graeme wrote:Investment in other low-carbon energy initiatives will have to be adopted if we want our civilization to endure.


Not necessarily. CO2 sequestration or geoengineering to cool the planet are also possible remedies to the warming problem.
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Re: We’re half-assing the clean-energy transition

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 29 Apr 2012, 23:43:19

The IEA mentions CCS but only 4 out of 82 required are in place. Geoengineering for now is merely a research project. Nothing is actually being done. We also need improvements in industry, buildings, fuel economy, electric vehicles and biofuels as shown on Table 1.1 and Figure 1.1. Otherwise we're toast.

PS I'll be travelling tomorrow and may not be able to post for a while.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: We’re half-assing the clean-energy transition

Unread postby Expatriot » Tue 01 May 2012, 20:25:38

Checking in on this site every 1/2 year is like visiting the town in which I went to high school, left soon thereafter, and never looked back.

Web site loads slowly and locks up. Check.
Recent threads on right side of splash page loaded with "clean energy" and/or "climate change" silliness. Check.
At least one inane cornucopian thread started by Graeme, with heavy citation and a suggestion that better days lie ahead. Check.
The usual posters responding to the thread (plant and elf dude). Check.
Peak Oil not any more clearly in public eye. Check.

Oh well. Nice visit. Tell that chick I shagged in home room I said hello.
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Re: We’re half-assing the clean-energy transition

Unread postby radon » Wed 02 May 2012, 02:53:28

Expatriot wrote:Tell that chick I shagged in home room I said hello.


Was she impressed? Interesting technique..
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The cost of transition

Unread postby sparky » Sun 10 Jun 2012, 18:36:43

.
With Europe in some budgetary straight , the cost of grid energy become acute
Germany has some issue with it's power grid
" Germany's Nuclear Phase-Out Brings Unexpected Costs "
http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 37007.html

""Approximately every tenth household currently has problems paying for rising energy costs," says Holger Krawinkel at the Federation of German Consumer Organizations. "

"Ulrike Mascher, president of VdK, an interest group focusing on social justice, uses terms such as "fuel poverty"

"In particular, they say, the unchecked expansion of highly-subsidized photovoltaic installations is driving prices up, without the benefit of creating a commensurate increase in supply."

"I am very concerned about the way energy prices are growing," says Economy Minister Philipp Rösler of the FDP, discussing what he describes as a "battle to keep energy affordable."

"Federal Economy Minister Rösler is at work on a new model for financing renewable energy. He would like to repeal Germany's renewable energy law, known as the EEG, which forces energy consumers to bear a portion of the costs for rooftop solar panels, wind turbines and biogas facilities. "The planned cutback in photovoltaic subsidies is only the first step," Rösler says. "
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Re: The cost of transition

Unread postby Repent » Sun 10 Jun 2012, 21:54:30

The biggest 'cost' I'm worried about is the transition cost of adjusting expectations.

The mega-corporation I work for has made it clear, 'We expect 15% growth annually every year' ! They remind their entire staff of this goal at the end each quarterly period. They're not afraid to fire and replace people who aren't achieving this goal. (The goal is absolutely based in fantasy and will eventually prove unachievable)

The company, like most companies, is almost exclusively run by people who come from sales and marketing backgrounds, people who are in complete denial about our current situation. In the short time I've been with this company I've seen major turnover, (firings), in managers who don't meet the company's goals. I expect this to continue and to get worse.

It’s clear to me that there will be no transition without a collapse event, and even when a collapse event does occur, the powers that be will be awaiting the recovery to business as usual, even if it is never forthcoming. This dynamic, transposed across the whole economy, all the corporations, ect, it makes me quite pessimistic that any real change can be accomplished.

Personal and local preparations are probably the best we can hope for.
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Re: The cost of transition

Unread postby Revi » Mon 11 Jun 2012, 09:06:08

"Personal and local preparations are probably the best we can hope for."

Exactly what the transition movement is about. We can't hope that larger institutions will help us through this. We need to start to make our communities resilient. With a little work we may be able to make it through some of this. It's worth a try.
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Re: The cost of transition

Unread postby Revi » Mon 11 Jun 2012, 09:06:56

"Personal and local preparations are probably the best we can hope for."

Exactly what the transition movement is about. We can't hope that larger institutions will help us through this. We need to start to make our communities resilient. With a little work we may be able to make it through some of this. It's worth a try.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: The cost of transition

Unread postby sparky » Tue 12 Jun 2012, 08:57:54

.
Greece's debt woes mutate into energy crisis
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/0 ... ML20120601
"In recent months RAE has repeatedly urged the government to shore up the accounts of LAGHE,
( the state electricity company ) which is sitting on a deficit of more than 300 million euros."

"The account went into deficit because its receipts have not matched the generous subsidies it pays out to renewable energy producers, particularly for solar panels."

So , it would seems the grid based society we have is to be replaced with small local nets
this would imply the end of large manufacturing and the return to some sort of local autarcy
who would produce the fertilizer ? at what cost ?
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the cost and consequences of transition

Unread postby sparky » Sat 15 Sep 2012, 16:44:08

From Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... EB20120914

that's a fairly balanced piece on Japan and France desire to get out of Nuclear generation. The gist of the report is that beside more oil and gas consumption , wind will have to step up

a real concern is that France is by far the biggest electricity exporter in Europe
this electricity is cheap , reliable , and nuclear should generation switch to the coal , oil , gas , wind set up there will be no exports beside marginal balancing
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 18 Sep 2012, 21:42:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Transition Thread.
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Re: the cost and consequences of transition

Unread postby Corella » Mon 17 Sep 2012, 04:06:36

While Japan and France made themselves dependent to nuclear power, Germany slithers into dependency on Technologies still to be realized (storage & substitution). Maybe a desperate thing but someone has to try (have e.g. a glimpse what happens at the Arctic)!
Nuclear power is not a big provider except for the named two countries, else there are much larger fish to catch.
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