LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[Rune]

When you will stop your interest in cold fusion?

Session 462 Advanced Concepts: LENR, Anti-Matter, and New Physics

Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space Conference

On Friday, March 23 I attended Session 462 Advanced Concepts: LENR, Anti-Matter, and New Physics of the Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space conference, one day after speaking with George H. Miley who would be presenting A Game-Changing Power Source for Spacecraft at the session.

Part 1 of event was an account of my talk with Professor Miley.
Part 2 continues with this paraphrase of the four talks included in Session 462. Unable to obtain video of the event, an audio recording formed the basis of this summary.

The Session Chair was Harry “Sonny” White, a member of Johnson Space Center Advance Propulsion Team, and he put together an ambitious group of speakers. Spacecraft power and propulsion systems based on LENR, anti-matter, and quantum vacuum flucuations are clearly being eyed by NASA. A new laboratory Eagleworks to research “speculative” technologies like the quantum vacuum thruster is currently being set-up at the Johnson Space Center with the participation of Dr. White.

I'll stop being interested in cold fusion when people like the above stop being interested in it. Duh!

[Rune]

Piantelli Presents Nickel-Hydrogen LENR Research 20 Watts In and 71 Watts Out

Comments:

If this is legitimate the entire world is about to change, geo-politics around the world will have to be rethought. Fresh Water and the ability to pump it from the desalination plants on the coast to the most isolated places on the planet will be practically free. Irrigation costs will plummet, as well as food prices and all utility services. Hydrogen fuel cells and electric cars will completely replace petrol gasoline and diesel, making transportation of goods and people practically free. All the money once spent on such things will flow into the economy. The environment will recover. Wars over resources will start the process of ending once and for all. Peace and prosperity, Science rising as religion fades, Humanity reaching out to the Stars, the birth of the Federation, I might even get laid!

[Rune]

A little more from Defkalion

Defkalion has posted a little more news about its plans to commercialize a cold fusion device similar to Andrea Rossi’s ecat at its website. The company stated that it is developing a commercial prototype that will form the basis of a broad range of industrialized low energy nuclear reaction devices to be marketed under the Hyperion brand name.

Licensing of all the products is supposedly in progress. Product testing to comply with European Union safety certifications is apparently underway. The products will product between six to 30 times the power put into them. The company has previously announced that independent testing of its technology is underway.

No description of the Hyperion LENR units or their capabilities has been posted on the website. Pictures of a mockup of a Hyperion have appeared online in the past. Although a spec sheet is available. Defkalion has previously announced that the Hyperion would be a heating device and could be used in industrial applications.

Defkalion claims to have three factories in Xanthi in northern Greece. Unlike Andrea Rossi, it has been willing to reveal their facilities’ location and even invite people there. Interestingly enough those who’ve visited have come away impressed.

Defkalion’s business plan appears to be a combination of manufacturing and licensing. It’ll first manufacture it in Greece then license it to be sold in other countries.

[cipi604]

As I said before, why does he have to convince anyone when he can just sell electricity?

It's like he has a machine that turns lead into gold and he wants to sell the machines. Why bother to sell the machine when you can just sell the gold?

Your economical model is a billion times slower than what they try to do.

[Rune]

Brillouin: "Understanding How LENR Works Will Enable Us to Be First"

Brief Review of LENR Show

One of the most exciting fields in the exotic free energy world right now is colloquially called "Cold Fusion," or Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) -- "low energy" referring to the relatively low energy required to instigate the nuclear event that produces copious amounts of energy, usually cleanly.

There are several things that make it exciting. For me, the rebel element of something that mainstream academia for so long called "junk science" finally being vindicated over and over brings huge satisfaction and a grin to my face. The fact that there are multiple groups competing for the "first to market" honor, not just one, and that each group has certain elements that make them strong, and others that make them weak, so the potential winner is not obvious, adds to the intrigue. Another point of high interest is the human drama involved, both within each group as well as between the competing groups. Moments of heroism are intermingled with moments of infamy.

It's like the horse race of the century, with several strong contestants taking turns in front.

What is dumbfounding to me is that more people don't share in the excitement of following the saga that is destined to change the planet profoundly: making energy affordable, clean, distributed, portable, sustainable, and opening all kinds of new opportunities (such as flying cars and asteroid mining), not to mention creating gobs of jobs.

With the advent of any one of these exotic free energy technologies (and there are several modalities emerging, each with multiple players like I just described for LENR), not only do we have the tangible mechanism for recovering from our global economic downturn, but we can finally manifest the world of the Jetsons.

...and you can forget about those possum recipes. Yuk!

[Cog]

As I said before, why does he have to convince anyone when he can just sell electricity?

It's like he has a machine that turns lead into gold and he wants to sell the machines. Why bother to sell the machine when you can just sell the gold?

Your economical model is a billion times slower than what they try to do.

Yeah the money from the scam would be way slower coming in if they actually had to produce energy from their machine.

[cipi604]

Yeah the money from the scam would be way slower coming in if they actually had to produce energy from their machine.

Lack of logic from your side is nothing new here, but still, I bet my life that you are clueless what it takes to sell electricity in large amounts nowadays.

At least you're funny.

PS: Don't google it now, unless you really want to learn something useful.

[Cog]

Yeah the money from the scam would be way slower coming in if they actually had to produce energy from their machine.

Lack of logic from your side is nothing new here, but still, I bet my life that you are clueless what it takes to sell electricity in large amounts nowadays.

At least you're funny.

PS: Don't google it now, unless you really want to learn something useful.

I'm still waiting for one of your magic machines to produce one watt of energy, electrical or otherwise, certified by an independent 3rd party. Please point me in the right direction to where those tests have ever been done.

Something like MIT,Cornell, or Stanford physics or chemistry departments will do nicely.

Oh yeah, before I forget, could you give me the USA address of the Rossi E-Cat factory that is cranking out thousands of E-Cats, even while we speak. I'm having a problem finding it in any of the business databases that I'm using. I'm sure its just an oversight on my part.

[Rune]

Yeah the money from the scam would be way slower coming in if they actually had to produce energy from their machine.

Lack of logic from your side is nothing new here, but still, I bet my life that you are clueless what it takes to sell electricity in large amounts nowadays.

At least you're funny.

PS: Don't google it now, unless you really want to learn something useful.

I'm still waiting for one of your magic machines to produce one watt of energy, electrical or otherwise, certified by an independent 3rd party. Please point me in the right direction to where those tests have ever been done.

Something like MIT,Cornell, or Stanford physics or chemistry departments will do nicely.

Oh yeah, before I forget, could you give me the USA address of the Rossi E-Cat factory that is cranking out thousands of E-Cats, even while we speak. I'm having a problem finding it in any of the business databases that I'm using. I'm sure its just an oversight on my part.

They aren't OUR machines.

We are only following this developing, ongoing story in this thread, as I've said many, many times.

You seem entirely incapable of understanding this simple thought.

[Cog]

Where is the factory located at? Are you capable of giving me the address?

[Rune]

Where is the factory located at? Are you capable of giving me the address?

Like I said, we are just following this story because we would like to know these things. But you seem entirely incapable of grasping this simple idea.

Which company's factory?

Defkalion has three of them in Xanthi Greece. Visitors to these sites have come away impressed with the facilities and the engineers involved - 27 of them.

We don't know about Rossi's factories, so we are continuing to follow THAT story.

Brillioun does not have a factory yet. It has research facilities in Berkeley, CA.

No basic logical misunderstanding you have; no idiot objection you have is going to stop me or anyone else from following developments in this ongoing story with interest. But I expect you will continue to whine and moan about us following this story because in your small mind, you cannot separate for yourself the simple distinctions of belief and interest.

There cannot be any belief without adequate evidence. So we are continuing to follow these developments with interest. There... did I clear away all the terrible confusion for you?

Ask your mommy about belief vs. interest if you continue to have trouble with these simple words.

[Rune]

OilPrice.com

New LENR Machine is the Best Yet

The new leader is Brillouin Energy with a new process named the Hot Tube Boiler. Sterling Allen at PESN interviewed Brillouin’s Robert W. George II, CEO; and the inventor, Robert Godes, the Chief Technology Officer. Mr. Allen learned Brillouin has had two significant independent validations of their scientific model and claims. One of those was by Los Alamos National Laboratories. The other was by Dr. Michael McKubre of Stanford Research International (SRI), who subsequently joined their board of advisors.

What puts Brillion out in front first is the temperature output. Brillouin expects the test of the new Hot Tube model at SRI will be capable of delivering steam at temperatures from 400ºC to 500ºC (750-932ºF). These kinds of temperatures are called superheated or deliver “dry steam”, a steam form that does not contain water mechanically suspended. Dry steam is what’s needed for generating power and moving heat because it saves a great deal of water and is more efficient. Pressures, especially for turbine drives can be much higher.

See how this story continues to develop?

This is why we are following LENR in this thread. Because it's interesting, not because we have belief prior to adequate evidence.

[Cog]

I want to know about the Rossi factory that you posted about some time ago. Where is it?

[Ferretlover]

I want to know about the Rossi factory that you posted about some time ago. Where is it?

I just answered that. Text deleted.

Where is the factory located at? Are you capable of giving me the address?

Like I said, we are just following this story because we would like to know these things. But you seem entirely incapable of grasping this simple idea.

Which company's factory?
Defkalion claims to have three factories in Xanthi Greece. Visitors such as Sterling Allen, have come away impressed with the facilities and the engineers involved - 27 of them.

We don't know about Rossi's factories, so we are continuing to follow THAT story.

Brillioun does not have a factory yet. It has research facilities in Berkeley, CA.

No basic logical misunderstanding you have; no idiot objection you have is going to stop me or anyone else from following developments in this ongoing story with interest. But I expect you will continue to whine and moan about us following this story because in your small mind, you cannot separate for yourself the simple distinctions of belief and interest.

There cannot be any belief without adequate evidence. So we are continuing to follow these developments with interest. There... did I clear away all the terrible confusion for you? Text deleted. .

[Rune]

Defkalion Green Technologies: Company Overview – Market Strategy – Global Positioning (PDF)

Our first factory is already in preparation phase, located in Xanthi, Northern Greece. It has the following characteristics:
• 6,000m2 space
• Maximum production capacity of 300,000 units annually (kW and MW products)
• IT for monitoring the production line and product support
• Technical support to distribution channels

The assembly of products will include the following activities:
• Assembly of reactors (purchased from Defkalion)
• Build-up of final product (electronics, heat management, etc)
• Quality Control and Total Quality Management and Environmental Control
• Stress Tests and Functional Tests of end products
• Recharging of units
• Recycling procedures

The second factory is scheduled to be built in Xanthi within 2012, comprising of 12,000m2 for a larger assembly line. A third factory, belonging to Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies (Global) Ltd., shall operate as the producer of the industrial secret as the products’ kernel.

It should be noted that larger and smaller factories can become operational according to market size.

Total staff requirements for both factories will be around 380, and include technical expertise in the fields of: mechanical engineering, engineering, electronics, plumbing, data management, and auxiliary.

With three factories located in Xanthi, the region shall gain in employment but also become an international hub where global investors and partners will visit the factory for business and product viewings.

I don't know the addresses. I've seen one picture of the outside of Defkalion's facility and a couple from inside. Sterling Allen has visited Defkalion's Athens offices and lab and met all the engineers. He came away impressed.

I have no reason to believe that Sterling Allen is an outright liar since he has no problem with trashing those companies and individuals who fail to live up to promises or who have credibility problems. He did this with Rossi, in fact - tossed him right out of PESN's Top Five due to inconsistencies in his statements.

[Alcassin]

OilPrice.com

New LENR Machine is the Best Yet

The new leader is Brillouin Energy with a new process named the Hot Tube Boiler.

What puts Brillion out in front first is the temperature output. Brillouin expects the test of the new Hot Tube model at SRI will be capable of delivering steam at temperatures from 400ºC to 500ºC (750-932ºF). These kinds of temperatures are called superheated or deliver “dry steam”, a steam form that does not contain water mechanically suspended. Dry steam is what’s needed for generating power and moving heat because it saves a great deal of water and is more efficient. Pressures, especially for turbine drives can be much higher.

This one produces steam at 100ºC, works exactly the same as E-Cat.

And here we have an upgrade. Producing superheated steam:



The first was discovered few thousand years ago, hard to call it an innovation.
The second is known for some centuries. Superheated steam has improved the efficiency of steam engines but needs higher energy input. It's an improvement to James Watt device. And as we know they need energy and it comes in form of electrical energy from the outlet.

Wooo, what a device! Producing steam by taking energy from the outlet! Nobody can do that.
Crackpots and nuts at PESN are going to love it. Sterling D. Allan is feeding himself from the lunacy of his "clients" presenting all kinds of perpetuum mobile to them. And he is a CT believer in "free energy suppresion", like laws of thermodynamics are the suppression.

Nope, he is a crook, a liar, and a nut.

[vision-master]

What the heck are you talking about.......... (in circles)

You can do better than post a pic of a tea pot - must be a limey........ lsol

[Ferretlover]

What the heck are you talking about.......... (in circles)

You can do better than post a pic of a tea pot - must be a limey........ lsol

Alcassin has got his knickers all in a bunch again because he doesn't want anyone to follow developments in LENR on PO.com - even though it is energy related and being widely followed with high interest, including by people such as Tom Whipple, a long-time prominent peak oil commentator. Must be positively infuriating for poor old Al.

He would prefer it if Rossi were the only player in this first-to-market game because Rossi is eccentric and secretive and more easily dismissed than the others. But the fact is, there are now THREE (supposed) LENR "scams" operating and looking to commercialize: Rossi, Defkalion, and Brillioun. Several more "scams" are afoot as well such as Piantelli's NichEnergy, Larsen's Lattice Energy, and George Miley's company.

All of this is very interesting and worth following in a thread - of course!

Text deleted.

[Cog]

I was talking about the Rossi factory. The one that he claimed is up and operating in the USA. Since you are following the story I figured you would be the man to talk to about the physical address. I'm frankly disappointed since you are following the story that you can't give me the address that Rossi claims is pumping out thousands of E-Cats.

I want to visit it and talk to Rossi about investing in his ground-breaking free-energy machine. Without an address, I'm sort of lost here.

Please don't hold out on me Carhole. There is money to be made here and I want in on the bottom floor.

Now of course if you have inside information that there is no information, then as a follower of the story, you need to inform us of that fact so we can pursue some other free energy scheme.

[Rune]

I was talking about the Rossi factory. The one that he claimed is up and operating in the USA. Since you are following the story I figured you would be the man to talk to about the physical address. I'm frankly disappointed since you are following the story that you can't give me the address that Rossi claims is pumping out thousands of E-Cats.

According to Rossi, the factories themselves are being produced. No "thousands of E-Cats" are being produced as of yet. He has not given out any address information.

Defkalion HAS given out address information but, AFAIK, only to visitors such as Sterling Allen. Also AFAIK, there is no internet-published info as to the addresses of the factories in Xanthis, Greece.

The reason we follow this story is because it is highly interesting yet not many of the details are known. They emerge as the story develops and that's why we follow it in this thread.

How many times do you have to be told this?