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Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 21:56:11

SeaGypsy wrote:You don't get me. The third world is doing what it has done. The first world at 2.3 children per woman is what I am on about. Any immediacy in die-off in the 3rd world will rapidly be offset by panic breeding in ex-first world.
It's one world now (kumbaya everyone!) We now depend on strategic minerals, petroleum, labor, fiber, food, fish, and timber imported from 3rd world countries. imported into the US. They starve. We starve.

There comes a time when we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And its time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somehow will soon make a change
We are all a part of Gods great big family
And the truth, you know,
Love is all we need

[Chorus]
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
Its true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Send them your heart so they'll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stones to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand

[Chorus]

When you're down and out, there seems no hope at all
But if you just believe there's no way we can fall
Let us realize that a change can only come
When we stand together as one
Our great-great-grandparents burned wood and coal. Our grandparents burned oil. We burn natural gas. Our children will burn their furniture. :badgrin:
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby eXpat » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 21:57:37

Image
Global Systemic Risk At 3 Month Highs
In a little over a month, the risk of the 30 most systemically important global banks has jumped an impressive 45%. At 235bps, the FSB30 stands just shy of the peak levels that were seen in the initial March 2009 crisis moment - though remains below Q4 2011 peak crisis levels. Perhaps, despite all the protestations of 'zee stabilitee', self-sustaining record-profit-margin-driven recovery, and Chinese soft-landing, the vicious circles of austerity in Europe (and perhaps the US) and financials squandering their newly-found liquidity (and certainly not capital) is becoming too large to ignore?

What is intriguing is how absolutely end-of-the-world the situation felt heading into Q1 2009 and yet - with banks' risk considerably higher now, we have become so much more 'used' to this state of chaos that our anchoring bias says - all is well?
Image

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/global-systemic-risk-3-month-highs
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You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 22:03:20

there is no recovery. there never was. this is the last recession. you can take that prognostication to the bank
Our great-great-grandparents burned wood and coal. Our grandparents burned oil. We burn natural gas. Our children will burn their furniture. :badgrin:
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 22:07:17

Education statistics are heavily linked to overall wealth (reformatted oil) Without education, a country does not generate enough value to have surplus for a decent education system. It is currently impossible to identify a highly educated country with high birth rates. People have more children when the children they have already have high mortality. As peak oil bites, education/ wealth factors will have less restrictive influence IMO.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Mon 23 Apr 2012, 22:49:25

pstarr wrote:there is no recovery. there never was. this is the last recession. you can take that prognostication to the bank


Pstarr. If I was taking one of your predictions to the bank it would be classified as a junk bond. :-P
"The human ability to innovate out of a jam is profound.That’s why Darwin will always be right, and Malthus will always be wrong.” -K.R. Sridhar


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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 01:15:03

Banks that took junk and classified them as the opposite.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 01:41:29

TheAntiDoomer wrote:
pstarr wrote:there is no recovery. there never was. this is the last recession. you can take that prognostication to the bank


Pstarr. If I was taking one of your predictions to the bank it would be classified as a junk bond. :-P

cute. got evidence? otherwise stfu.
Our great-great-grandparents burned wood and coal. Our grandparents burned oil. We burn natural gas. Our children will burn their furniture. :badgrin:
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby AdTheNad » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 03:36:10

dsula wrote:
Daniel_Plainview wrote:Fracking Production Depletes 60-80% after 1st year -- Total Joke ! ! !
This means new wells must constantly be drilled to avoid production for a whole area dropping off very quickly.


That's job security and opportuniy for many an unemployed or underemployed. Not a bad thing.

You ever hear of the broken window fallacy?
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 10:25:23

New-home sales show a winter glow
Image

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- While sales of new homes slowed in March, government figures for the previous two months were revised sharply higher Tuesday, pointing to a solid winter rebound in the housing market.

The Census Bureau reported that sales of new homes in the month came in at an annual pace of 328,000 when adjusted for the season. That was down 7.1% from the 353,000 sales pace in February -- but that February figure was revised up by 40,000 from the reading issued last month.

The improvement was reflected by the year-over-year data, which showed a 7.5% increase in March.

January new-home sales were also revised higher by 11,000, to a 329,000 annual rate.


The long-battered housing market has been showing signs of recovery so far this year, helped by low prices, record low mortgage rates and some pick-up in hiring that has lowered the unemployment rate. It is now cheaper to buy a home than rent in much of the country.

[...]
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 10:30:48

Image

RICHMOND FED BLOWS PAST EXPECTATIONS, Jumps To 14
Manufacturing in the Fifth Federal District blew past expectations in April, jumping to a reading of 14 from a reading of 7 in March, registering substantively stronger activity during the month.

Economists polled by Bloomberg had forecast the key index to decline to 6. Readings above zero indicate expansion.

All three components of the employment sub-index logged increases, including the wages, length of work week, and number of employees metrics.

"Hiring activity strengthened at District plants in April," the Federal Reserve said in its report. "The manufacturing employment index moved up four points to end at 10, and the average workweek indicator edged up one point to 3. The wage index added three points to 14."


Expectations for the future also remained bright, with the new shipments sub-index moving to 28 from 26, and the new orders sub-index declining slightly to 29.

"Looking ahead, manufacturers' optimism remained in place in April," the Fed said. "Contacts at more firms anticipated that shipments, new orders, backlogs, capacity utilization, and capital expenditures would continue to grow at a solid pace in the months ahead."
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Lore » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 10:46:32

SeaGypsy wrote:Education statistics are heavily linked to overall wealth (reformatted oil) Without education, a country does not generate enough value to have surplus for a decent education system. It is currently impossible to identify a highly educated country with high birth rates. People have more children when the children they have already have high mortality. As peak oil bites, education/ wealth factors will have less restrictive influence IMO.


This all depends on your long term view of the population crash. If it is a series of dips, slowly spiraling downward, which is what I think will happen, or a relatively sudden global event.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 10:52:10

AdTheNad wrote:
dsula wrote:
Daniel_Plainview wrote:Fracking Production Depletes 60-80% after 1st year -- Total Joke ! ! !
This means new wells must constantly be drilled to avoid production for a whole area dropping off very quickly.


That's job security and opportuniy for many an unemployed or underemployed. Not a bad thing.

You ever hear of the broken window fallacy?


lol. One wonders whether Cornies also find value in highly destructive hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. ... namely, because of all the jobs (and GDP) that are created by the cleanup.

It's clear that the Cornies love deficit spending and money printing because the benefits are obvious today (GDP growth), while the costs are spread among future generations.

They love bailouts because of the bump in GDP.

They love student loan debt because of the GDP bump.

They love when the govt pays out unemployment and food-stamps ... because of the GDP bump.

They love asset bubbles, housing bubbles, debt bubbles, education bubbles, stock-mkt bubbles, etc ... because bubbles create a short-term boost in GDP, despite the tragic and catastrophic consequences that transpire when the bubble pops.

Likewise, they love fracking even though 60-80% of the wells are depleted after JUST ONE YEAR, and even though its an ecological disaster. Why? Because the short-term bump in GDP makes it worth it.

They love part-time/temp jobs because of the way they mask the true state of joblessness.

Likewise, they love fracking because of the way it conceals the true state of crude oil depletion.

In short, Cornies embody basically everything that defeats a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy. They exalt fantasy over reality; short-term over long-term; deception over truth.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby eXpat » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 11:54:18

Daniel_Plainview wrote:In short, Cornies embody basically everything that defeats a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy. They exalt fantasy over reality; short-term over long-term; deception over truth.

I nominate that as the member quote of the month 8)
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw

You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 12:44:01

Awwwwwww, poor doomers are getting really frustrated. :twisted: To the doomers, anything that isn't doomer-y seems to automatically get labeled as a "bubble." :lol:

It's earnings season, and today a bunch of manufacturers reported their results. And they sez ...

Manufacturers Grow as US Demand Offsets Europe
Big U.S. manufacturers continued a wave of strong earnings growth, with United Technologies, 3M, Illinois Tool Works and Parker-Hannifin posting results that topped Wall Street forecasts.

Recovering demand at home helped all four companies offset a very weak European economy and slowing growth in China, which until recently had been a reliable source of rapid growth for big U.S. companies.


3M, ITW and Parker-Hannifin all raised their full-year profit forecasts on Tuesday, while United Tech held its outlook steady, citing concerns about an uneven global economy.

"We have seen some encouraging signs in the United States over the last several months," said United Tech Chief Financial Officer Greg Hayes, noting that sales of Carrier air conditioners had picked up since mid-March.

"Europe remains awful," Hayes told reporters. "The markets there for commercial construction have really been anemic and continue to be."

Fellow blue-chip 3M, which makes products ranging from Post-It notes to films used in flat-screen televisions, sounded a brighter note.

"We are off to a very good start in 2012," said Inge Thulin, who in February became 3M's chief executive, in a statement.

The company saw growth in the Americas, stabilizing European sales and weakness in Asia, primarily in China, Japan and at the company's unit that sells components to consumer electronics makers, noted BernsteinResearch analyst Steven Winoker.

"In his first reporting quarter as CEO, Inge Thulin and the company managed to offset the headwinds," Winoker said.

[...]
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Armageddon » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 15:32:21

Here's that robust new housing report :-D

Image
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 16:53:27

+++1
eXpat wrote:
Daniel_Plainview wrote:In short, Cornies embody basically everything that defeats a sustainable, healthy, long-term economy. They exalt fantasy over reality; short-term over long-term; deception over truth.

I nominate that as the member quote of the month 8)
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Tue 24 Apr 2012, 17:04:16

Daniel_Plainview wrote:They love asset bubbles, housing bubbles, debt bubbles, education bubbles, stock-mkt bubbles, etc ... because bubbles create a short-term boost in GDP, despite the tragic and catastrophic consequences that transpire when the bubble pops.

Speaking of bubbles, I was really starting to think Apple was looking bubbly, but then they just came out with their Q1 earnings and - voila! - expectations were crushed once again. No doubt this is because of QE and ZIRP and Obama's stimulus, as are all signs of economic health these days. :roll: Oh yeah and I'm sure this is yet another sign that 2012 is the last year of capitalism. :roll:

Image
Apple Earnings Blow Past Expectations; Shares Rise
Apple reported quarterly earnings and revenue that beat Wall Street's expectations on Tuesday, sending its shares higher in extended-hours trading.

After the earnings announcement, the technology giant's shares rose 4 percent in trading after the closing bell.

In the past two weeks, Apple stock has dropped 12 percent, falling into correction territory, after rallying 75 percent from late November to a closing high of $636.23 on April 9.

The company posted fiscal second-quarter earnings excluding items of $12.30 per share, up from $6.40 a share in the year-earlier period.

Net income was $11.6 billion, or $12.30 per share, up from $6 billion, or $6.40 per share, a year ago.

Revenue shot up 59 percent to $39.2 billion from $24.67 billion a year ago.

Analysts had expected the company to report earnings excluding items of $10.04 a share on $36.81 billion in revenue, according to a consensus estimate from Thomson Reuters.

[...]
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 25 Apr 2012, 04:53:14

One article describes the current phenomenon as profits for corporations but unemployment and high oil and food prices for most, with the former driven by financial speculation that is ironically leading to the latter.

Given that, one should expect mostly good news related to corporate earnings, stock prices, consumer spending, and fudged data concerning employment, all of which were happening even after the first dip.
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Re: Here Comes The Double Dip Pt. 3

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 25 Apr 2012, 04:54:10

Related, an older article:

"A Tale of Two Depressions"

http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421
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UK economy in double-dip recession

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 25 Apr 2012, 05:04:52

UK economy in double-dip recession
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624
The UK economy has returned to recession, after shrinking by 0.2% in the first three months of 2012.

A sharp fall in construction output was behind the surprise contraction, the Office for National Statistics said.

A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of contraction. The economy shrank by 0.3% in the fourth quarter of 2011.

Wednesday's figure is an early estimate and is subject to at least two further revisions in the coming months.

The ONS said output of the production industries decreased by 0.4%, construction decreased by 3%, and output of the service sector increased by 0.1%.


Dipping!!
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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