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THE Algae Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 20 Mar 2012, 14:25:31

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-03/exxon-600-million-algae-investment-spurs-khosla-to-dismiss-as-pipe-dream.html


http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site ... ewsLang=en

In the case of ExxonMobil: They have a $600M investment which they will spend over the next decade... as of mid-2010. This company made $41B in profits last year, therefore the entire "massive" investment of $60M per year amounts to 12.8 HOURS of profits. This is before all of the generous R and D credits and tax writeoffs, plus favorable public relations they get from it.

http://grist.org/business-technology/20 ... ew-energy/

Conoco Phillips has entered into a $300M joint venture with GE and NRG energy... no detail on who invested what, but we're talking biofuels in general in this case, including wood chips and other biomass, but let's be really generous and say that Conoco Phillips invested the whole thing, and it all went to Algae: 9 days' profits.

Their website did produce 6 hits for the word "algae" they have a $5M "algae" project underway in Colorado, which is nearly 3.5 hours of profits for this company...big spenders.

So I would challenge the basic idea that they're all that serious, or investing serious money in the projects, or even consider it anything more than politically correct lip service while they pour much more money into the Eagle Ford, or Bakken or any of those other more plausible projects.
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Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 20 Mar 2012, 15:19:54

The military is investing in this quite a bit because algae can also produce fuel in the dark with some simple carbon compounds, not the complex sugars required by yeast.
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Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby MD » Tue 20 Mar 2012, 15:56:25

It's not so much the energy streams that matter with algae, it's all of the other petroleum based products.

The heavy/nasty stuff still in the ground is already more expensive and harder to deal with ecologically than algae when you're talking high end products.

Energy will eventually be a side benefit.

Change your paradigm. (The first one to shout "Buzzword Bingo" wins a prize!)
Do you drive interstate highways daily? If so, stop doing so ASAP. You'll be happy you did.

Looking for a job?
Just about anything,
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Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 20 Mar 2012, 18:30:48

Also if any country enacts cap & trade or carbon credits, they'll want a way to take advantage of those tax breaks.
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Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 20 Mar 2012, 21:50:59

8) It seems like a reasonable amount to spend on R&D considering the value a substitute for crude oil will have post peak.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 25 Mar 2012, 18:14:25

Algae pushed as next big thing in biofuels – video

Barack Obama has publicly supported algae as a biofuel. Critics says it's as far-fetched as Newt Gingrich's ideas of living on the moon. Now a scientist says he's made a breakthrough: he's making algae capable of producing 400% more hydrogen. Could algae be the solution, not only for US energy independence, but for climate change too?


guardian

The science of fuels made from algae, explained

Last month, President Obama touted fuels produced from immense swaths of algae as the future of energy, providing up to 17 percent of transportation fuel. But how do you get from pond scum to energy-rich fuels that can power our machines?

Reporters from ClimateDesk, a collaborative news service, put together this video explaining how scientists are studying the algae in the lab, why it is a potential fuel source, and how small companies are getting into the game.


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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 25 Mar 2012, 21:00:48

Graeme wrote:he's making algae capable of producing 400% more hydrogen.
Then he has created a new life form heretofore unknown on planet earth. Algae is a photosynthesizing plant that produces oxygen. not hydrogen.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 25 Mar 2012, 21:30:43

I know MIT are involved in hydrogen production using algae.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/algae-fuel-0524.html

There may well be others if you google.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 25 Mar 2012, 22:00:53

A summary (including links) of the process of producing hydrogen from algae can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biohydrogen_reactor
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Re: What's behind Big Oil's investments in algae?

Unread postby ian807 » Mon 26 Mar 2012, 11:14:09

Mostly PR, but if they can supply small quantities of incredibly expensive fuel to the military and government, why not have the business set up ahead of time?
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 03 Apr 2012, 19:07:12

Algae biofuels: the wave of the future

Researchers at Virginia Bioinformatics Institute at Virginia Tech have assembled the draft genome of a marine algae sequence to aid scientists across the US in a project that aims to discover the best algae species for producing biodiesel fuel. The results have been published in Nature Communications.

The necessity of developing alternative, renewable fuel sources to prevent a potential energy crisis and alleviate greenhouse gas production has long been recognized. Various sources have been tried—corn for ethanol and soybeans for biodiesel, for example. But to truly meet the world's fuel needs, researchers must come up with a way to produce as much biofuel as possible in the smallest amount of space using the least amount of resources.
Enter algae. Unlike other crops like corn or soybeans, algae can use various water sources ranging from wastewater to brackish water and be grown in small, intensive plots on denuded land. While algae may still produce some CO2 when burned, it can sequester CO2 during growth in a way that fossil-fuel based energy sources obviously can't.


Further analysis revealed that with fairly straightforward genetic modification, N. gaditana should be capable of producing biofuel on an industrial scale, which may be the wave of the future in fuel research and production.


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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 18:13:25

Algae Is Not Endive: The Future of Biofuels in the United States

More than 65 research institutions and dozens of companies (including big ones such as General Atomics and Honeywell) are working toward eventual large-scale commercialization. Some have broken ground on pilot projects. Phycal, Inc., recently signed a deal to sell fuel from algae to Hawaii's electric utility.

Solazyme, Inc., a leading algae company based in South San Francisco, went public last June with a $200 million stock offering to finance its research and production of algal oils in giant fermentation vats. It is working with Unilever, Chevron, and Dow Chemical and recently delivered algal oil for the U.S. Navy's planned "Green Strike Group." Volkswagen's U.S. operation wants to test how VW's state-of-the-art clean diesel engine runs on Solazyme's algae fuel.

Some companies in the United States and Europe also see a role for algae in fighting climate change, because algae absorbs carbon dioxide, a major greenhouse gas produced by power plants and refineries. One experiment is using heat, waste and water from an ethanol refinery in Iowa to produce 200 tons a year of high-grade algae in adjacent ponds. The resulting oils, carbohydrates and proteins can be sold to makers of diesel fuel, ethanol, pharmaceuticals and animal feed.


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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 19:49:37

sounds like another pointless diversion, a chance to scam the clueless investor and the US citizen. There is no evidence algae biofuels will propel our petroleum-starved infrastructure into the 21st century. After decades of research failure at the NREL laboratory, gov. subsidies, and self-serving academic promotion, we are no closer to creating exciting new life form that this scheme would depend on. Sorry Graeme, but this scam has long lost its luster.

Where have you been Graeme? We through this pointless exercise more than 5 years ago in heated pointed scientific debate. I don't even remember the Cornies name anymore He promoted palm-oil biodiesel to the detriment of tropical rainsforest, and when he was shown the ludicrousness of this scheme, he retreated to the algae flim-flam. When that did not pan out he made a graceless exit. Maybe that is what this thread should do?
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 20:04:53

Well, it looks as though the discussion five years ago is a little out of date. I'm reporting on more recent progress via news articles which indicate that large-scale commercialization of algae-based biofuels is not that far away. Watch this space. Didn't you read what I posted above. US Navy has already received algae oil from Solazyme. Production has started.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 11:48:47

Navy Biofuels: Strategic Thinking Or Environmental Good Works Program?

Navy Secretary Mabus was an ambassador to Saudi Arabia, so he likely understands the strategic value of oil as well as anyone in the military. He may be right to contend it is in our best interests to get off of it. But how much is that worth in a time of budget worries? In December, the Navy bought 450,000 gallons of biofuels at $26.75 per gallon. Outrageous, right? Maybe, but if the Navy is going to have “the Great Green Fleet” by 2016 there has to be more research done on biofuels and that means spending money now. The first fax machine was expensive too.

Secretary Mabus contends that even a $1 increase per barrel means $31 million in fuel costs so alternatives make sense, even if they are not cost-effective right now. And we are talking about $12 million out of a Department of Defense budget around $550 billion. Peanuts. Heck, the new Navy destroyer is almost $6 billion each. $12 million to promote research in alternative fuels is slight. But, as veteran Jonn Lilyea noted, it is not rational to spend $20 a gallon on an alternative to not have to worry about regular fuel changing by $1 a gallon. On the exterior, he is right.


In reality, like farmers, the military has spent two decades 'dematerializing' - between 1985 and 2006, the Department of Defence's total energy consumption declined more than 60%. That wasn't just environmental good work, it also made military and economic sense. Environmentalists should be applauding that but they instead complain about what hasn't been done so their input has little value when it comes to strategic concerns of any country, including on energy issues.


Of course, the whole idea in biofuels is growing fuel locally and that would eventually mean fewer convoys. We have to accept in biofuels what the president did not accept about solar power and therefore has been a fiasco; you can't just throw money around and speed up science, there is no shortcut and there is no magic bullet that will issue forth for energy that makes it profitable and superior all at one time. The Navy uses 1,300,000,000 gallons of fuel per year so 425,000 in biofuels is literally a drop in the military bucket, but it may be a drop that can put us on a path to less energy dependence with countries we have ended up fighting.


science20

The long, long (long) road for algae fuel

Earlier this week algae fuel startup Sapphire Energy announced that it’s in the process of raising a whopping $144 million from private investors, which will be used to build out its first commercial demonstration algae farm in New Mexico. That farm could be able to produce 1.5 million gallons of Sapphire’s green crude per year by 2014, says Sapphire’s VP of Corporate Affairs, Tim Zenk.

That might sound impressive, but it’s a far cry from the company’s previous projections. Back in 2009, Sapphire was hoping its algae farm would be able to produce 1 million gallons of green crude per year by 2011, followed by 100 million gallons per year by 2018, and 1 billion gallons per year by 2025. When Sapphire made those projections, the sheer volume was so much more than any of their competitors were putting out there, that I asked if Sapphire was going to be “the gorilla of algae fuel?“

Well, turns out, nope, at least not yet, but they are still out in front of — or on par with — much of the rest of the algae fuel industry. The algae fuel sector is just taking a really long time to scale and reach anywhere close to being economic with gas and diesel.

In 2010, Pike Research predicted that by 2020, the algae biofuel industry would only likely be able to produce about 61 million gallons per year globally and Pike estimated that the world wouldn’t see its first commercial algae plant with capacity of at least 1 million gallons per year until 2014 at the earliest (more likely 2016).

Contrast that 1 million gallons per year — which Sapphire’s Zenk notes is “a commercial demonstration plant, and on the energy scale is small” — with the amount of fuel that the U.S. alone consumes every year: nearly 138 billion gallons of gasoline in 2009 were consumed in the U.S. according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

If it’s taking so long, why even bother? Well, algae is one of the most promising fuel stocks partly because it can produce 2-20 times more oil per acre than other energy crops, and it can live in freshwater, seawater and wastewater. In theory, it’s a perfect fit for a biofuel.


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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 12:58:02

Graeme there has never been a commercial production system after 35 years of research subsidies, government/private investment, and lots of hype. There is nothing particularly unique about algae, a simple photosynthesizing planet that lacks cellulose. We simply can't grow fuel in our backyard or swimming pool.

Contrary to the expectations and promises of the life-science investment community, there is no research to suggest we will ever manufacture and novel new algae life-form that will circumvent the limitations of photosynthesis as a replacement for eons of geologic machinery. soorryyyy.

Just because a lot of ill-spent money is floating around academia or the investment community is no indication of the validity of the premise.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 19:21:00

PStarr, I sense that your position has shifted already. Earlier you were talking about scamming the clueless investor and closing down this thread. Clearly, there has been serious investment and commercial production will soon begin within a few years. The US Navy has already purchased algae biofuel. You just refuse to read what I have posted. There is considerable research into algae-based biofuels - see that done by Virginia Tech posted above, plus the more than 65 research institutions. And this from the gigaom link:

Venter and Synthetic Genomics opened its own algae test lab in conjunction with oil giant Exxon in San Diego in the Summer of 2010. But more recent reports say that that project has stalled a bit as Venter wants to work on synthetic algae cells (yep, one’s they full design and create in a lab) and Exxon’s deal is reportedly for naturally occurring algae. Venter now says he doesn’t even think that algae fuel that can replace oil will come from nature.


Considering our oil-based resource constraints, I don't think this research and development will end anytime soon.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 19:53:20

Graeme wrote:PStarr, I sense that your position has shifted already. Earlier you were talking about scamming the clueless investor and closing down this thread.

I don't recollect changing my position. And I have debated endlessly (and I believe successfully) the impossibility of altering algae metabolism for lipid production, false promise of life-science "research" and the failure of breeding programs. We have witnessed over and over the failure of algae bio-reactors. Furthermore I remain convinced that all biofool research (not just algae) is a waste of time. We have seen similar false promised for 3rd and 4th "generation" cellulosic scams. Even "proven" corn ethanol and palm oil programs remain environmentally destructive, low-(or negative) eroei distractions

Yes I would close down this thread. Dozens of biofool threads were all dragged together under the "Mother of all biofuels" thread, an effort by the administration to clear up this mess. Why prolong and spread the mess around again? Just because there is taxpayer money floating around waiting to sink under biofuel titanic does not mean we need to promote anything.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 20:13:11

Craig Venter and researchers from more than 65 research institutions think otherwise. Your debate has not been successful. As long as there is further research in algae biofuels (not corn ethanol), there will be more breakthroughs and I will report these when I see them. I hope Admin and mods do not close down this thread.

PS. Notice in this thread that US patents for biomass/biofuels are up 65% in 2011 compared to 2010.
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Re: Algae-based Biofuels Moving Ever So Slowly to Market

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 05 Apr 2012, 21:40:42

Media Availability: Algae Facts and Experts From the Algal Biomass Organization

As high gas prices and the need for new supplies of fuel have entered the national energy discussion, the Algal Biomass Organization (ABO), the trade association for the U.S. algae industry, today announced the availability of experts and information resources that can clarify the potential for algae to provide the nation with a new source of domestically produced fuels.

ABO spokespersons, including ABO executive director Mary Rosenthal, are available for media briefings and interviews regarding the commercial production of algae-based fuels and their impact on energy and economic policy. Several ABO member companies are also available to discuss their efforts to provide the U.S. with large volumes of advanced biofuels.

ABO has also recently announced the launch of Allaboutalgae.com, the first website designed to showcase algae's potential for everyone -- from those just learning about algae to seasoned algae enthusiasts, media and entrepreneurs looking for the latest information on the industry's progress toward meeting challenges in energy security, food production and sustainability.

With over $2 billion dollars in private investment and the interest of some of the largest companies, algae is moving fast toward becoming a real source of fuels such as gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, and other transportation fuels that operate safely in existing engines and infrastructure.

In addition to fuels, renewable algal oils and proteins can be used to produce agricultural feed, nutritional supplements, fertilizers, cosmetics, plastics, specialty chemicals and more.

Several commercial-scale projects are under construction or breaking ground this year, all working to take advantage of algae's unique strengths as a source of renewable fuels and other products:


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