LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[babystrangeloop]

South African Fuel-Free Generator Preparing for Market
Sterling Allan reports on his recent trip to South Africa to visit a company who has developed a 5 kilowatt Fuel Free Generator that will be available beginning March for their existing customers. Sterling will be getting a generator to test and use on his home from that first batch of 200.

by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News

ADVISORY: With any technology, you take a high risk to invest significant time or money unless (1) independent testing has thoroughly corroborated the technology, (2) the group involved has intellectual rights to the technology, and (3) the group has the ability to make a success of the endeavor.

In other words: "when we take all your money and don't deliver, don't say we didn't warn you."

[Quinny]

Hoping and praying that LENR is a game changer. Trouble is as an atheist I don't really know who to pray to.

[AgentR11]

You guys just don't like to follow LENR stuff because it interferes with your doomer bs

Love for it to be real.
Love to buy one at a reasonable price.
Do you have one for sale?

[Schadenfreude]

You guys just don't like to follow LENR stuff because it interferes with your doomer bs

Love for it to be real.
Love to buy one at a reasonable price.
Do you have one for sale?

Why would a thread exist to follow a development story that had already happened? Because if an e-cat were for sale at Home Depot, this thread would contain eons old news -- being that the development would have already occurred prior to its being for sale.

We are following the ongoing LENR development story as it unfolds here. Why do you have so much trouble with this very simple concept?

[Schadenfreude]

Widom-Larsen Theory Explains Low Energy Nuclear Reactions & Why They Are Safe and Green by Lewis Larsen of Lattice Energy

Capture of ultra-low momentum neutron results in a variety of transmutations to non-radioactive elements

At a ‘size’ of 0.2 nanometre, a thermal neutron is only able to interact with just a few atoms at any given instant; and it is also moving fast. In contrast, the gigantic ULM neutrons can interact collectively with literally thousands of nearby ‘target’ atoms all at once. This unique property increases the probability of their being absorbed by those nearby atoms to nearly 100 percent. A nuclear physicist would say ULM neutrons have phenomenally high “absorption cross-sections.”

ULM neutrons’ huge size is exactly why biologically dangerous energetic (‘hot’) neutrons are not released by LENR systems. ULM neutrons are extraordinarily ‘cold’ to begin with; and virtually all are absorbed locally; they never get a chance to escape and go anywhere. It is the first reason why LENRs are safe and environmentally friendly in comparison with heavy element neutron-triggered fission and light element hot fusion.

After being created, ULM neutrons are efficiently absorbed by nearby target atoms, resulting in nuclear transmutations into different elements or isotopes [5]. Unstable transmutation products undergo subsequent weak interaction beta decays [6] that, depending upon exactly which nearby target elements were used as ‘fuel,’ can then release large amounts of nuclear binding energy [7].

Another reason why LENRs are green (environmentally friendly) is that extremely neutron-rich, very unstable intermediate transmutation products turn into stable, non-radioactive elements very quickly via cascades of rapid beta decays. Such neutron-rich intermediate nuclear products have short half-lives, of milliseconds, seconds, minutes, or at most hours; and typically not even days or months, let alone years. That is why LENR systems do not produce large quantities of long-lived hot radioactive isotopes like today’s commercial fission reactors. As a result, there are no known nuclear waste disposal issues with LENR systems. Long-lived, highly radioactive isotopes (gamma emitters like cobalt-60) are not produced in detectable quantities; this has been verified in many LENR experiments.

Best explanation of it I've seen.

[SeaGypsy]

Except for that the Widom- Larsen theory of Ultra Low Momentum Neutrons is bunkum. Not verified or even bothered with by anyone outside the LENR/ ecat clique.

[Alcassin]

Except for that the Widom- Larsen theory of Ultra Low Momentum Neutrons is bunkum. Not verified or even bothered with by anyone outside the LENR/ ecat clique.

That's true SeaGypsy.
What we have here is pseudoscientific technobabble. No evidence or verification, and it will go on, because we have one poster here who apparently doesn't know scientific method at all.

The problem with verification of those things is the crux to make me believe that it is possible. I really would like to have cheap, clean and almost free energy. But what I get is not based on evidence, and because for 23 years nobody presented the evidence or a working machine, this (cold fusion) has moved from fringe science into pseudoscience. Nobody proved nuclear reaction going or even heat production. Case closed since early 90s.

Topic should be opened with a breakthrough showing that it is real, with data provided, reproducible tests, and a workable theory. Until then I bet it's a scam.

[Cog]

If E-Cats actually worked and were sold at Home Depot, there would be plenty of news to report. There would be lines to buy one that would go on for miles. And I'd be one of them standing in it. But since the E-Cat and other assorted free energy devices are pure bunk, then we must content ourselves with following this never-ending thread about a device that can not work.

[Captain Thunderbolt]

SunBall/ SunCube is identical to Ecat/Hyperion.
It claims to produce power very cheaply and cleanly.
The performance figures are, well, unbelievable!
No independent testing has been performed, the technology is secret.
Neither device is actually on the market but distributorships are for sale.
(Distributors are required to sign an NDA)
It will be available real soon (promise)


http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stori ... l?page=all
Denver’s Vibrant Solar glows with SunCube plan
Premium content from Denver Business Journal by Cathy Proctor
Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 10:00pm MDT - Last Modified: Monday, January 25, 2010, 10:52am MST
Related: Manufacturing, Environment, Energy
Enlarge Image

Scott VanKirk, CEO of Vibrant Solar Inc., needs to raise $2 million for a manufacturing plant to produce SunCubes like the one he’s standing beneath.

Vibrant Solar Inc. has installed the standard, photovoltaic solar-power flat panels since 2006.
Now, the Denver-based company is ready to offer a new kind of solar panel: a boxy, silvery one called the “SunCube” that produces twice as much power as a flat panel.
It’s part of the fledgling concentrating photovoltaic (CPV) solar-power industry. And if all goes as Vibrant CEO Scott VanKirk hopes, the company will have a Colorado manufacturing plant in a few years to churn out SunCube solar power panels for clients throughout the United States.
Vibrant has made presentations to economic development groups in Jefferson County, Aurora, Colorado Springs and Pueblo, where it also is seeking to learn about possible incentives, said Mark Simmons, vice president of Vibrant’s marketing and sales.
VanKirk also hopes to raise about $2 million for the manufacturing plant, which is expected to employ about 70 people on a single shift at the beginning.
“Our hope is that we can get this completely Colorado-made,” VanKirk said.
The SunCube is twice as efficient at converting sunlight into power as are flat-panel PV systems, offering twice as much power output, and costs 30 percent more than a typical, flat-panel PV system, said Mark Simmons, vice president of marketing and sales for Vibrant.

Oh dear, did you find a new job yet Mark?
I did try to warn you. http://connect.sierraclub.org/forums/To ... 651-1.aspx

[dinopello]

Governments all over the world are talking about the e-cat

In December we learned that Mitt Romney was likely briefed on cold fusion. We know that Senator Bruce Tarr and candidate Randy Hekman were interested enough to talk about it in public. Now the eCat is raising its head in the Italian Parliament, courtesy of ELISABETTA ZAMPARUTTI and other members of The Radical Party.

Now that Mittens is onboard and appears to be a shoo-in for the nomination, I suspect we will start to see promises of an e-cat in every home, and the venture captial will start to flow...

Engineer Rossi was received by the governor of Massachusetts and MIT Bruce Tarr (the most prestigious technological universities in the world) with the idea to start production in the state

Massachusetts - another Romney coup ?

[kublikhan]

According to information obtained by New Energy Times on Thursday and last fall, it appears that Andrea Rossi, the inventor of the Energy Catalyzer, deliberately misplaced thermocouples to give false readings of excess heat. “This test was an intentional deception, as usual,” Ahern wrote. “He mounted the thermocouple such that it responded directly to the heater and not the actual temperature of the hot water. This was not an oversight. He used this trick in February [2011] with Levi.

“Mounting thermocouples externally is also absurd. A T-type fitting to place it in the actual flow costs less than $20.” But did Rossi know anything about thermocouples? In fact, he was an expert, as he wrote on his blog on May 21, 2011. “I know very well the thermoelectric issue, because I made a patent exactly for high temperature [thermoelectrics],” Rossi wrote. “I worked for years, from 1996 through 2000 in this field, and applied them to engines, power generators, boilers, I worked [on contracts] for the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense in this field, through Leonardo Technologies Inc. … I made with my hands thermocouples with a very particular directional fusion I had invented, obtaining a 100 Watts set very, very good, tested in the University of New Hampshire in 1998.”

While the patent was still pending, Rossi and his colleagues were able to obtain a Department of Defense contract with the Army to do further development on the thermoelectric devices. Strangely, the novel results observed at the University of New Hampshire could never be repeated. Not one of the devices Rossi had agreed to deliver under contract worked.

Rossi Misplacement of Thermocouples Appears Deliberate

Rossi has a track record of making grand claims and giving glitzy demos that superficially appear to support his claims. But when/if people actually get their hands on his devices in their own labs, they don't work anymore and his claims finally appear as what they were all along: BS. Petroldragon, DoD thermoelectric devices, and now the E-Cat. People should not be giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who has a history of defrauding people. Especially when said person makes miraculous claims or claims that break the laws of physics. A list of scientists who were "wowed" by his glitzy demos is not sufficient reason to suspend your skepticism.

[Quinny]

Well if Mitt Romney's been briefed on it it must be the done deal.

[lper100km]

But since the E-Cat and other assorted free energy devices are pure bunk, then we must content ourselves with following this never-ending thread about a device that can not work.

Well now Cog, I don’t see anything that requires you to respond to posts or even to read this thread. I think you have just outed yourself as a PO News addict. (See other thread)

[Quinny]

Naughty naughty Cog. Repeat after me

I must not read or respond to nonsense threads about devices that cannot work..

100 times of course!!

[Schadenfreude]

Somehow, you guys find the novelty of two competing (in your opinion) LENR scams working against one another to be uninteresting and not worth following. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of the validity of Rossi or Defkalion, the unfolding drama is interesting from any perspective.

Why constantly complain about an energy news story that is all over the blogosphere and interests hundreds of thousands of people now?

I still have no opinion on Rossi or Defkalion; I just follow the developments. Sometimes I comment.

I think there is something to LENR science but it remains to be seen just what the straight poop is on excess energy and it remains to be seen whether Rossi, Defkalion, or someone like Dr. George Miley will demonstrate systems that actually work.

[AgentR11]

You assume there is competing going on. I don't see any competing. If there were, I could buy one, or the other, based on cost vs power output and durability.

[Quinny]

Carry on like this and you'll soon be losing the (in your opinion) and be able to attack the scams for what they are with no loss of your personal credibility.

Somehow, you guys find the novelty of two competing (in your opinion) LENR scams working against one another to be uninteresting and not worth following. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of the validity of Rossi or Defkalion, the unfolding drama is interesting from any perspective.

Why constantly complain about an energy news story that is all over the blogosphere and interests hundreds of thousands of people now?

I still have no opinion on Rossi or Defkalion; I just follow the developments. Sometimes I comment.

I think there is something to LENR science but it remains to be seen just what the straight poop is on excess energy and it remains to be seen whether Rossi, Defkalion, or someone like Dr. George Miley will demonstrate systems that actually work.

[kublikhan]

Somehow, you guys find the novelty of two competing (in your opinion) LENR scams working against one another to be uninteresting and not worth following. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of the validity of Rossi or Defkalion, the unfolding drama is interesting from any perspective.

Why constantly complain about an energy news story that is all over the blogosphere and interests hundreds of thousands of people now?

I still have no opinion on Rossi or Defkalion; I just follow the developments. Sometimes I comment.

I think there is something to LENR science but it remains to be seen just what the straight poop is on excess energy and it remains to be seen whether Rossi, Defkalion, or someone like Dr. George Miley will demonstrate systems that actually work.

I posted a relevant, on-topic LENR news article. I also offered commentary on the article. The mods encourage offering commentary, otherwise we just end up with "headline one-upsmanship". See the A New Attitude At PeakOil.com for details. Just because you don't like the commentary does not mean it does not belong in this thread. I explained to you before why my commentary on Rossi and Defkalion are negative. And it is going to stay negative as long as they continue to act like Nigerian scammers.

Carry on like this and you'll soon be losing the (in your opinion) and be able to attack the scams for what they are with no loss of your personal credibility.

+1

[Captain Thunderbolt]

ECAT----SCAMMING GONE VIRAL
Scammers have been around forever but the internet has opened up a whole new field for them.
Defkalion and Rossi have taken it to a whole new level.

A prudent investor who is considering involvement with a "Green Widget" company can use Google to do some research and check for red flags raised against the product or its inventor.
If you do that for any of the dodgy solar "Green Widget" companies like say for example SunCube or
SunSeeker Energy, or even the really outlandish like Enviromission, there will be plenty of negative reviews that will make you put that cash back in your pocket

Try the same thing for Ecat or Defkalion and you will find that the web is saturated with pro-Ecat articles.
Try to research the chequered history of Andrea Rossi and once again the blogosphere is clogged up with
pro-Rossi propaganda which claims that he is really an unfairly persecuted genius of clean energy.

Is it just enthusiasm for the lovely Ecat and Saint Andrea or is it something more sinister?

It is 99.99999999999999999999999% certain that this is just a scam but through the deliberate use of viral marketing techniques it will be a bigger and longer lasting scam than ever thought possible.
Congratulations Rossi, you really did invent something after all.

[vision-master]

You have zero proof of your statements - besides how many times have you been banned?