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Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)Thread (merg

Discussions related to the direct environmental impacts of energy exploitation, development and use including climate change.

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Re: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)Thread (merg

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Mon 08 Feb 2010, 11:14:46

Lore wrote:
rdsaltpower wrote:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/the-great-global-warming-collapse/article1458206/ looks like the IPCC is losing creditability daily. 8O


They lost credibility a long time ago when they caved in to political forces, understating the implications of climate change.


Meanwhile, the World's Citizens are going to be wondering why the
Himalayas are the warmest ever now.

And January 2010 was the Hottest since satellite records were kept.

#
#
2009 is claimed to be hottest year of India ever. Temperature was ...
07 February 2010. 2009 is claimed to be hottest year of India ever. ... Temperature over (the) hilly regions of the western Himalayas was 3-5 degrees ...

hallosushant.blogspot.com/2010/.../2009-is-claimed-to-be-hottest-year-of.html
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Re: Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)Thread (merg

Unread postby pablonite » Sat 13 Feb 2010, 10:33:40

U.N. Gets Rolling on Copenhagen Accord, Forms Finance Panel
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/02/12 ... 88171.html
UNITED NATIONS -- The United Nations moved today to implement a key component of the Copenhagen Accord, announcing the launch of a high-level panel to design and oversee a $100 billion annual fund for climate mitigation and adaptation financing in poor countries.

The Advisory Group on Climate Change Financing must design a mechanism to channel cash from developed nations to projects aimed at protecting agriculture and infrastructure from rising seas and weather extremes...

...The group will also propose strategies for boosting renewable energy and clean technology investments in poor nations in an effort to move stalled international negotiations forward.

"Funding would include both public and private sources," Ban said.

There was no mention made at today's briefing of an additional $30 billion for an annual financing facility that wealthy nations agreed to set up at last December's climate talks in Copenhagen. Though the Copenhagen Accord that was agreed to at the eleventh hour of international negotiations last year lacks details, it does commit developed-nation parties to achieving $30 billion a year in mitigation and adaptation financing over the next three years, growing to $100 billion per year by 2020.

"I will ensure that the results of the group's work are communicated to the UNFCCC Conference of Parties, with the full expectation that the advisory group's work will help build momentum toward the successful negotiation of a comprehensive climate change agreement," Ban said.

...Though officials and top negotiators say they are still aiming to craft a new treaty to replace the Kyoto Protocol by the end of the year, most traders in carbon emissions allowances and offsets do not expect that to occur.

Prospects hinge on whether U.S. EPA imposes greenhouse gas emissions regulations or Congress approves a climate bill. Carbon market lobbyists in Washington say privately that they do not expect a bill to pass until 2011 at the earliest.

Carbon market analysts also report that offset project investors active in the United Nations' Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) -- the main vehicle for mitigation financing and technology transfers in the developing world -- are now pulling back or refraining from launching new initiatives.

Though governments and companies in Europe are still purchasing the CDM offset credits, investors fear the entire scheme will cease to exist once the Kyoto Protocol treaty expires at the end of 2012, rendering the credits worthless....

Correction: The Global Environment Facility is not a part of the World Bank, as stated in previous versions. Its four-year fund is estimated to be worth $3.13 billion.

O'really ?
http://www.gefweb.org/interior_right.aspx?id=50
The Global Environment Facility (GEF) unites 180 member governments — in partnership with international institutions, nongovernmental organizations, and the private sector — to address global environmental issues. An independent financial organization, the GEF provides grants to developing countries and countries with economies in transition for projects related to biodiversity, climate change, international waters, land degradation, the ozone layer, and persistent organic pollutants. These projects benefit the global environment, linking local, national, and global environmental challenges and promoting sustainable livelihoods.

Established in 1991, the GEF is today the largest funder of projects to improve the global environment. The GEF has allocated $8.8 billion, supplemented by more than $38.7 billion in cofinancing, for more than 2,400 projects in more than 165 developing countries and countries with economies in transition. Through its Small Grants Programme (SGP), the GEF has also made more than 10,000 small grants directly to nongovernmental and community organizations.

The GEF partnership includes 10 agencies: the UN Development Programme; the UN Environment Programme; the World Bank; the UN Food and Agriculture Organization; the UN Industrial Development Organization; the African Development Bank; the Asian Development Bank; the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development; the Inter-American Development Bank; and the International Fund for Agricultural Development. The Scientific and Technical Advisory Panel provides technical and scientific advice on the GEF’s policies and projects.

Sure looks like part of a world bank to me.

So this is how it works, a massive theft of wealth from developed nations to international banking fronts whitewashed by the mainstream media as "global environmental organizations" who then use this money to impose structural adjustment policies on third world nations forcing them to buy inefficient "green" technologies that we are not using ourselves while getting them trapped into a perpetual debt scenario. Sure it might start off with a grant to install a wind turbine, but the devil is in the details of maintaining it and deciding who gets to use its minuscule power output.

If your a tribal third world person living in a straw quonset hut the last person you want to see driving into town in a hummer is someone wearing a 3 piece Armani suit from the The Global Environment Facility because that would mean you have something they want.
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Climate Change. It's our fault again - allegedly

Unread postby KevO » Fri 05 Mar 2010, 04:32:07

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8550090.stm

A review from the UK Met Office says it is becoming clearer that human activities are causing climate change.
It says the evidence is stronger now than when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change carried out its last assessment in 2007.
The analysis, published in the Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews Climate Change Journal, has assessed 110 research papers on the subject.
It says the earth is changing rapidly, probably because of greenhouse gases.
In 2007 the IPCC's report concluded that there was "unequivocal" evidence that the Earth was warming and it was likely that it was due to burning of fossil fuels.
Since then the evidence that human activities are responsible for a rise in temperatures has increased, according to this new assessment by Dr Peter Stott and colleagues at the UK Met Office.
The study, which looks at research published since the IPCC's report, has found that changes in Arctic sea ice, atmospheric moisture, saltiness of parts of the Atlantic Ocean and temperature changes in the Antarctic are consistent with human influence on our climate.
"What this study shows is that the evidence has strengthened for human influence on climate and we know that because we've looked at evidence across the climate system and what this shows very clearly is a consistent picture of a warming world," said Dr Stott.
The study brings together other research from a range of disciplines


full article at link, at top


So, we are damned with fossil fuels if we do and we're damned if we don't. One thing is certain. $5 gas by September. $15 gas by 2012?
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IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 30 Aug 2010, 14:38:07

Apparently IPCC is going to be reformed due to poor quality of research:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11131897
Could anyone in the knowledge comment about these alleged misleading assessments delivered by IPCC?

I am aware about these Himalayan glaciers mess and some email scandals but I still cannot grasp some broader picture.

IPCC seems to be quite harmless, mainstream organization.

Could anyone enlighten me what the evil might be lurking there and warrants general overhaul?
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Re: IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby Vogelzang » Mon 30 Aug 2010, 17:43:40

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Re: IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby Xenophobe » Mon 30 Aug 2010, 18:18:04

EnergyUnlimited wrote:
IPCC seems to be quite harmless, mainstream organization.

Could anyone enlighten me what the evil might be lurking there and warrants general overhaul?


The auditor himself seems to have covered the "why" with this statement:

"Dr Shapiro conceded that controversy over errors in climate science assessments had dented the credibility of the process."

That statement would seem to cover the glacier type errors as well as any, as yet unknown errors. Reading the reference, it would appear that general science sloppiness is as much to blame as anything.
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Re: IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby jedrider » Mon 30 Aug 2010, 19:04:26

IPCC in trouble?? Don't know. I do know that we are in trouble if even a fraction of the IPCC claims are true. Typically, their claims will be extremely conservative and it will be worst. I sort of look at it as Murphy's Law of Climate: If something can go wrong, it will go wrong. Climate science has done a good job of pointing out what can go wrong. And guess what....? The climate is changing according to the worstcase scenarios.

Anyway, is their political pressure on the IPCC?? I bet there is plenty. BAU is attempting to prevail. It probably will.
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Re: IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 00:24:31

Since when do we trust the main stream media to get even the most basic facts right, around here??

Look at the report itself! Here is the first paragraph of the conclusion (with my emphases):
The Committee concludes that the IPCC assessment process has been successful overall and has served society well. The commitment of many thousands of the world’s leading scientists and other experts to the assessment process and to the communication of the nature of our understanding of the changing climate, its impacts, and possible adaptation and mitigation strategies is a considerable achievement in its own right. Similarly, the sustained commitment of governments to the process and their buy-in to the results is a mark of a successful assessment. Through its unique partnership between scientists and governments, the IPCC has heightened public awareness of climate change, raised the level of scientific debate, and influenced the science agendas of many nations. However, despite these successes, some fundamental changes to the process and the management structure are essential, as discussed in this report and summarized below.


No process or organization is perfect, and all can be improved in various ways. But that doesn't mean that the report is saying that they think the IPCC is 'in trouble."

Slant much?
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Re: IPCC in trouble.

Unread postby dissident » Sun 12 Sep 2010, 14:12:09

The denier enabling media (take that Alex Jones) is lying through its teeth with regards to the Himalayan glaciers. The mistake was not in the scientific volume (one of three released) but in one of the policy volumes. So the crap about "reviewers telling the IPCC this was wrong" and them being "ignored" is pure concoction. The reviewers did not have to deal with the mistake in the scientific volume since it was not there.

The mistake of citing a WWF report is a storm in the teacup itself. It is pretty much accepted that in 20 years there will be serious water shortage issues in Pakistan, India and even parts of China directly related to glacier loss. Who gives a rat's *ss if not 100% of the glaciers are gone. The damage to humanity (e.g. water wars) will be there in 20 years.
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The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby Oilguy » Tue 28 Feb 2012, 12:44:21

As the global warming debate increases in its intensity we find both sides deeply entrenched, hurling accusations and lies at one another in an attempt to gain the upper hand. This divide within the scientific community has left the public wondering who can be trusted to provide them with accurate information and answers.
The IPCC, the onetime unquestioned champion of climate change, has had its credibility questioned over the years, firstly with the climategate scandal, then with a number of high profile resignations, and now with the new “Gleickgate” scandal (1) (2) – One has to wonder where climate science goes from here?

Oilprice.com has just had the pleasure of interviewing the well known climatologist Judith A. Curry in order to get her thoughts on climate change, the IPCC, geo-engineering, and much more.
Judith is the current chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology and hosts sensible discussions on climate change at her popular blog Climate, etc.
Considered somewhat of a black sheep within the scientific community Judith was a one time supporter of the IPCC until she started to find herself disagreeing with certain policies and methods of the organization. She feared the combination of groupthink and political advocacy, combined with an ingrained "noble cause syndrome" stifled scientific debate, slowed down scientific progress, and corrupted the assessment process.

OP: What are your personal beliefs on climate change? The causes and how serious a threat climate change is to the continued existence of society as we know it.

JC: The climate is always changing. Climate is currently changing because of a combination of natural and human induced effects. The natural effects include variations of the sun, volcanic eruptions, and oscillations of the ocean. The human induced effects include the greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, pollution aerosols, and land use changes. The key scientific issue is determining how much of the climate change is associated with humans. This is not a simple thing to determine. The most recent IPCC assessment report states: “Most [50%] of the warming in the latter half of the 20th century is very likely [>90%] due to the observed increase in greenhouse gas concentrations.” There is certainly some contribution from the greenhouse gases, but whether it is currently a dominant factor or will be a dominant factor in the next century, is a topic under active debate, and I don’t think the high confidence level [>90%] is warranted given the uncertainties.

As I stated in my testimony last year: “Based upon the background knowledge that we have, the threat does not seem to be an existential one on the time scale of the 21st century, even in its most alarming incarnation.”

OP: You have said in the past that you were troubled by the lack of cooperation between organizations studying climate change, and that you want to see more transparency with the data collected. How do you suggest we encourage/force transparency and collaboration?

JC: We are seeing some positive steps in this regard. Government agencies that fund climate research are working to develop better databases. Perhaps of greatest interest is the effort being undertaken by the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project, which is a (mostly) privately funded effort to compile and document a new data base on surface temperatures, in a completely open and transparent way.

OP. Do you feel climatologists should be putting more effort into determining the effect of the sun on our climate? As the IPCC primarily focuses on CO2 as the cause of climate change – Is the importance of CO2 overestimated and the importance of the sun is underestimated?

JC: I absolutely think that more effort is needed in determining the effect of the sun on our climate. The sun is receiving increased attention (and funding), and there is a lively debate underway on interpreting the recent satellite data record, reconstructing past solar variability, and predicting the solar variability over the 21st century. Nearly all of the solar scientists are predicting some solar cooling in the next century, but the magnitude of the possible or likely cooling is hotly debated and highly uncertain.

OP: You are well known in climate and energy circles for breaking from the ranks of the IPCC and questioning the current information out there. What do you see as the reasons for the increase in skepticism towards global warming over the last few years.

JC: Because of the IPCC and its consensus seeking process, the rewards for scientists have been mostly in embellishing the consensus, and this includes government funding. Because of recent criticisms of the IPCC and a growing understanding that the climate system is not easily understood, an increasing number of scientists are becoming emboldened to challenge some of the basic conclusions of the IPCC, and I think this is a healthy thing for the science.

Full interview at: http://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Glo ... Curry.html
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby Fishman » Tue 28 Feb 2012, 15:04:22

OMG, a heretic, stone her...“Based upon the background knowledge that we have, the threat does not seem to be an existential one on the time scale of the 21st century, even in its most alarming incarnation.”
She questions the faith of our prophet Gore. (sarc)
Obama, the FUBAR presidency's second term
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby ralfy » Wed 29 Feb 2012, 02:05:30

The NAS generally support IPCC arguments a few years ago. See, for example,

http://nas-sites.org/americasclimatecho ... te-change/

Finally, about Curry:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Judith_Curry
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 29 Feb 2012, 04:44:15

curry = crap
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 29 Feb 2012, 12:19:04

I find it truly amazing how some of the warministas feel obligated to claim anyone who disagrees with their pet theory as being incompetent.

Judith Curry is far from incompetent...she has published in refereed journals well more than most scientists who publish in the field of climatoglogy. The fact that she has decided to take a middle of the road approach to the science and try to remove it from politics makes many scientists who count on the gov't gravy train uncomfortable, which is a good thing.

For those who don't know here is Curry's CV

GENERAL INFORMATION


Education

1982 Ph.D. The University of Chicago, Geophysical Sciences
1974 B.S. cum laude Northern Illinois University, Geography

Professional Experience

2002- Chair, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology
1992-2002 Professor, University of Colorado-Boulder, Department of Aerospace Engineering Sciences
Program in Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences
Environmental Studies Program
1989-1992 Associate Professor, Department of Meteorology, Penn State
1986-1989 Assistant Professor, Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Purdue University
1982-1986 Assistant Scientist, Department of Meteorology, University of Wisconsin-Madison
Awards/Honors

2006 Georgia Tech Sigma Xi Award, Best Faculty Paper Award
2004 Fellow, American Geophysical Union
2002 NASA Group Achievement Award for CAMEX-4
1997 Elected Councilor, American Meteorological Society
1995 Fellow, American Meteorological Society"
1992 Henry G. Houghton Award, the American Meteorological Society
1988 Presidential Young Investigator Award, the National Science Foundation Councillor
Professional Activities (last five years)

World Meteorological Organization / International Council of Scientific Unions / International Ocean Commission / World Climate Research Programme

Global Energy and Water Experiment (GEWEX) Radiation Panel (1994-2004 )
GEWEX Cloud System Studies (GCSS) Science Steering Group (1998-2004 )
Chair, GCSS Working Group on Polar Clouds (1998-2004 )
Chair, GEWEX Radiation Panel SEAFLUX Project (1999-2004)
Science Steering Group, Arctic Climate System (ACSYS) Programme (1994-2000)
Steering Committee, IGAC/SOLAS Air-Ice Chemical Interactions (2003- )

American Meteorological Society

Executive Committee of the Council (1998-2000)
Councillor (1997-2000)
Awards Committee (1995-1997)
Editor, Journal of Applied Meteorology (1993-1996)

National Science Foundation

Panel to review NCAR (2002)
Co-Chair, Science Working Group, Surface Heat Balance of the Arctic (SHEBA) (1993-1996)
Atmospheric Sciences Observing Facilities Advisory Panel (1994-1997)
Arctic System Science (ARCSS) Steering Committee (1993-1995)

Department of Energy

Executive Committee, Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Program (93-96) Chair (1997-2000) and Member (1993-2000), Science Steering Committee, ARM Alaska site

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

Lead Mission Scientist, FIRE Arctic Cloud Experiment (1996-1999)
Technology Subcommittee of the Earth System Science and Applications Advisory Committee (1997-2003)
Review Team, Earth System Science Pathfinder Missions (1998-1999)

NAS/NRC

Climate Research Committee (2003-2006)
Space Studies Board (2004-2007)

NOAA

Steering Committee for the Postdoc Program in Climate and Global Change, 1994-1998
Council on Long-Term Climate Monitoring 2002-2004
Climate Working Group 2004-2008

Other

Executive Committee for AGU Board of Heads and Chairs (2004-)
External Review Committee, Environmental Sciences Department, Rutgers University (2000-2001)
External Review Committee, Dept of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Purdue Univ (2003)
Nominating Committee, AGU Atmospheric Science Division (2004-)
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 29 Feb 2012, 16:16:41

The IPPC has indeed outlived its usefulness. It's main purpose was to delay action in the name of endless 'further study.' Now that catastrophic climate chaos is upon us, it serves no further purpose. Evil has prevailed. No need to muddy the waters any more with 'study.'
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby Lore » Wed 29 Feb 2012, 18:47:05

Appeals to Curry's credentials doesn't hide the fact that she is just another attention seeking climate gadfly. She just loves to stir the pot with her opinions.
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 01 Mar 2012, 10:37:32

Appeals to Curry's credentials doesn't hide the fact that she is just another attention seeking climate gadfly. She just loves to stir the pot with her opinions.


And precisely how would that be any different that say Phil Jones, Mike Mann, Gavin Schmidt, Kevin Trenberth, Peter Gleick...etc,.etc?

insert quote....glass houses....stones. [smilie=5sigh.gif]
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 01 Mar 2012, 11:35:32

That is why one should rely on combinations of scientists and studies. The source to consider for that is the NAS.
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby jedrider » Thu 01 Mar 2012, 15:24:28

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature

http://wottsupwiththat.com/2011/10/21/the-berkeley-earth-surface-temperature-project-puts-pr-before-peer-review/

Even when legitimate scientists are funded by the deniers, sometimes they just can't ignore the truth that the 'warming is real' even though it has been vigorously denied by the 'deniers'! Now it won't have any significant impact until '2100', like it is going to wait for the calendar to turn over. Last I heard, the U.S. has been mostly snowless this Winter, temperatures are at all time highs, and tornado season has begun a whole month earlier than usual.

Climate Chaos has obviously begun a full century before it is suppose to have any effect according to this 'good corporate citizen-paid-off scientist'!
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Re: The IPCC May Have Outlived its Usefulness

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 01 Mar 2012, 16:40:19

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature

Even when legitimate scientists are funded by the deniers, sometimes they just can't ignore the truth that the 'warming is real' even though it has been vigorously denied by the 'deniers'! Now it won't have any significant impact until '2100', like it is going to wait for the calendar to turn over. Last I heard, the U.S. has been mostly snowless this Winter, temperatures are at all time highs, and tornado season has begun a whole month earlier than usual.


you are demonstrating a considerable amount of ignorance on the subject here. The BEST analysis was not funded by "deniers", far from it. And the outcome of that study is neither here nor there in terms of any argument regarding AGW. Even the results of their study have been challenged from both the sceptic side and the warmista side of the arguement. It really is not that important to the discussion.

As well you confuse weather with climate. Are you claiming there have never been snowless winters in North America before?....I can remember at least two not that many years ago. Temperatures have remained relatively flat for the past decade as shown by every measure (GISS, HADCRUT, satellite, SST, etc including BEST) even though CO2 has steadily increased (you can explore this fact yourself at the woodfortrees website. The situation with respect to droughts has been much worse in the not too distant past (mid-fifties, thirties) as it has for other extremes. You need to understand how patterns are influenced by ENSO as that has been what is the driving factor in North American weather over the past couple of years. And if you can statistically demonstrate how tornadoes are suddenly more intense/earlier/important then you need to submit that data to the scientists who actually look at these things:


Greg Carbin, the warning coordination meteorologist at NOAA’s Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma, said warming trends do create more of the fuel that tornadoes require, such as moisture, but that they also deprive tornadoes of another essential ingredient: wind shear.
“We know we have a warming going on,” Carbin told Fox News in an interview Thursday, but added: “There really is no scientific consensus or connection [between global warming and tornadic activity]….Jumping from a large-scale event like global warming to relatively small-scale events like tornadoes is a huge leap across a variety of scales.”


"If you look at the past 60 years of data, the number of tornadoes is increasing significantly, but it's agreed upon by the tornado community that it's not a real increase," said Grady Dixon, assistant professor of meteorology and climatology at Mississippi State University.
"It's having to do with better (weather tracking) technology, more population, the fact that the population is better educated and more aware. So we're seeing them more often," Dixon said.
But he said it would be "a terrible mistake" to relate the up-tick to climate change.
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