THE Battery Technology Thread pt 2 (merged)

[JRP3]

What are you talking about? Lithium cells can charge at very high rates, my cells can charge at 100 amps if my charger and home circuitry could handle it, which it can't. Other lithium cells can handle even faster charge rates. I'm sorry but you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

[kublikhan]

Batteries for phones and laptops could soon recharge ten times faster and hold a charge ten times larger than current technology allows.

Engineers at Northwestern University in the US have changed the materials in lithium-ion batteries to boost their abilities. One change involves poking millions of minuscule holes in the battery. Batteries built using the novel technique could be in the shops within five years, estimate the scientists.

A mobile phone battery built using the Northwestern techniques would charge from flat in 15 minutes and last a week before needing a recharge. The density and movement of lithium ions are key to the process. The recharging speed has been accelerated using a chemical oxidation process which drills small holes - just 20-40 nanometers wide - in the atom-thick sheets of graphene that batteries are made of. This helps lithium ions move and find a place to be stored much faster.

The downside is that the recharging and power gains fall off sharply after a battery has been charged about 150 times. "Even after 150 charges, which would be one year or more of operation, the battery is still five times more effective than lithium-ion batteries on the market today," said lead scientist Prof Harold Kung from the chemical and biological engineering department at Northwestern.

So far, the work done by the team has concentrated on making improvements to anodes - where the current flows into the batteries when they are providing power.The group now plans to study the cathode - where the current flows out - to make further improvements.

Engineers boost battery strength with small holes

[kublikhan]

Chemists have solved the 150 year-old mystery of what gives the lead-acid battery, found under the hood of most cars, its unique ability to deliver a surge of current. Lead-acid batteries are able to deliver the very large currents needed to start a car engine because of the exceptionally high electrical conductivity of the battery anode material, lead dioxide. However, even though this type of battery was invented in 1859, up until now the fundamental reason for the high conductivity of lead dioxide has eluded scientists.

‘The unique ability of lead acid batteries to deliver surge currents in excess of 100 amps to turn over a starter motor in an automobile depends critically on the fact that the lead dioxide which stores the chemical energy in the battery anode has a very high electrical conductivity, thus allowing large current to be drawn on demand,’ said Professor Russ Egdell of Oxford University’s Department of Chemistry, an author of the paper. ‘However the origin of conductivity in lead oxide has remained a matter of controversy. Other oxides with the same structure, such as titanium dioxide, are electrical insulators.’

Through a combination of computational chemistry and neutron diffraction, the team has demonstrated that lead dioxide is intrinsically an insulator with a small electronic band gap, but invariably becomes electron rich due to the loss of oxygen from the lattice, causing the material to be transformed from an insulator into a metallic conductor.

The researchers believe these insights could open up new avenues for the selection of improved materials for modern battery technologies. Professor Egdell said: ‘The work demonstrates the power of combining predictive materials modelling with state-of-the-art experimental measurements.’

Mystery of car battery's current solved

Nice to see we finally understand why lead acids deliver such large currents. Now we can work on adding this advantage lead-acids have to other modern battery technologies, instead of relying on 150 year old tech. Add in some of the other interesting battery improvements discussed in this thread, and it seems very plausible that the batteries of tomorrow will be leaps and bounds better than what we are using today.

[TheAntiDoomer]

The five-year-old company today is expected to disclose technical details of its batteries which executives say could lead to cutting EV battery pack prices in half in three or four years. Envia Systems' batteries are being evaluated by a number of automakers, including its largest investor General Motors, according to CEO Atul Kapadia.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57384 ... z1nbnoTBMI

[Beery1]

Oooh! A battery that 'might' give the Chevy Volt a range of 70 miles - only four years from now (if all goes well). We're saved!

We can all go home. Close down the Peak Oil site - it's all over.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Actually we are talking about a 300 mile range for around 20,000$.

[The_Toecutter]

Actually we are talking about a 300 mile range for around 20,000$.

You mean like the 1996 Solectria Sunrise with the 27 kWh NiMH pack? $20,000 would have been its price in volume production. It met NHSTA requirements and could seat a family. The major automakers wouldn't touch it back then, despite positive consumer response and interest.

We don't need an advanced battery for gasoline-like range and performance and cheaper than gasoline cost! We had what we needed almost 20 years ago. It's called a design that considers the vehicle as an entire system instead of focusing on individual components in isolation. Such a design will start with an uncompromisingly aerodynamic body, and then make the styling conform to the aerodynamics, not the other way around, and will incorporate the use of those weight saving techniques that won't kill the budget, while using a battery technology that is appropriate for the application. This philosophy is every bit applicable to ICE cars as well, allowing 80+ mpg with no compromises to the consumer. It does not fit well with the planned obsolescence vehicle production model though.

Dave Cloud's modified Geo Metro can do 200 miles range at 65 mph on flooded golf cart batteries for f**k's sake. He built it for $3,000(~$7,000 if you count the parts he had laying around for free). His goal was to build a 200 mile range car on a low budget, and he was successful. The motors, controllers, and batteries were all well out of date by 10+ years as far as the hobbyist market is concerned, let alone what the automakers have today at their disposal.


That being said, if true, this battery advancement will only make EVs that much more viable than they've been. A conversion with a 250 mile range on LiFePO4 could be made to get 1,000 miles instead for the same weight. 1,000 miles range, and recharge time is not even an issue at all.

[SilentRunning]

The five-year-old company today is expected to disclose technical details of its batteries which executives say could lead to cutting EV battery pack prices in half in three or four years. Envia Systems' batteries are being evaluated by a number of automakers, including its largest investor General Motors, according to CEO Atul Kapadia.

I am a fan of electric cars. I even drive a real, live hybrid car. I wish for better, cheaper batteries.

However, over the past 20 years, if I had $100 for every time I have read that a major breakthrough out of some lab somewhere was about to make electric cars cheaper, lighter, and other wise better - I could probably afford to buy the Telsa roadster with cash, and have considerable spending money left over.

I've learned to IGNORE any claims about better, cheaper, lighter, safer (,etc,etc,etc) batteries UNTIL such batteries are actually available for sale and have proven themselves to be reliable in the laboratory of the REAL WORLD.

[TheAntiDoomer]

New Energy-Dense Battery Could Enable Long-Distance Electric Cars

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ctric-cars

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md.—A company founded in the Palo Alto public library has taken a dose of government money and technology and turned it into the most energy-dense battery ever. Envia System's new lithium-ion battery packs roughly twice as much energy per gram as present batteries, the company will announce here at the third annual summit of the Advanced Research Projects Agency—Energy (ARPA–e).

"We achieved 400 watt-hours per kilogram," explains materials scientist Sujeet Kumar, Envia co-founder and chief technology officer. "We have made a 40 ampere cell in a large format that automakers can recognize and use," and one that has been validated by independent energy density tests at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, Ind.

[Beery1]

Actually we are talking about a 300 mile range for around 20,000$.

You mean we are talking about 'maybe' a 300 mile range for 'maybe' around $20,000 'maybe' four years from now, if all goes well.

I'll email Kunstler, Heinberg, Ruppert, Campbell, Deffeyes et al and tell them to stop writing books and cancel their speaking engagements. Oh joy! It's all over! We can look forward to endless energy and a bright future for all!

I'll dig out my DVD of 'Things to Come', bung it in the DVD player and enjoy a peek at our coming new world. Admittedly it has the benefit of being a tad more optimistic than my original plan to get tips on the future by watching 'Soylent Green'.

[Revi]

I think the car will change. Why drive a monster around when a small, lightweight car would do? Why own a car at all? The idea of driving around in 2000 pounds of steel to get a jug of milk is crazy anyway. We should be getting around our towns in a small electric car and going further in a bus or a train. We use our small electric car every day. It cost around $5000, and it's made in the USA.

[TheAntiDoomer]

^A lot of the communities in Florida do just that. I have a relative that owns a couple golf carts down there and uses them to do all his grocery runs.

[Beery1]

We use our small electric car every day. It cost around $5000, and it's made in the USA.

I bet I can go faster and carry more on my vehicle, which doesn't need plugging in, runs on the same food I eat, keeps me fit and cost $600 15 years ago. They sell for around the same price today.

[TheAntiDoomer]

^Cool!

[SilentRunning]

New Energy-Dense Battery Could Enable Long-Distance Electric Cars

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ctric-cars

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md.—A company founded in the Palo Alto public library has taken a dose of government money and technology and turned it into the most energy-dense battery ever. Envia System's new lithium-ion battery packs roughly twice as much energy per gram as present batteries, the company will announce here at the third annual summit of the Advanced Research Projects Agency—Energy (ARPA–e).

"We achieved 400 watt-hours per kilogram," explains materials scientist Sujeet Kumar, Envia co-founder and chief technology officer. "We have made a 40 ampere cell in a large format that automakers can recognize and use," and one that has been validated by independent energy density tests at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, Ind.

Great. Let me know when the things are actually available for sale, as opposed to mere nice sounding claims. When they are, I'll be impressed. Until then, it won't actually propel a vehicle. Vehicles need BATTERIES, not PROMISES OF BATTERIES.

[JohnRM]

Great, so we can run our cars on coal and Uranium, instead of oil.

[ian807]

Lessee, a gallon of gas contains about 132 megajoules. There's about 7 gallons worth in a cubic foot, or about 924 megajoules per cubic foot. Got a battery with that energy density? Get back to me on that one, eh?

[dinopello]

There's about 7 gallons worth in a cubic foot, or about 924 megajoules per cubic foot.

Just about seven and a half. Doesn't seem like it should be that much but its always suprising with volume.

I do think that the cab drivers around here that are driving the Prius are feeling a little better about the extra lease fees they pay now that gas is going up.

The local government pushed the cab industry in that directionsimply by approving entry of a new all-hybrid cab company in the county. The other cab companies were losing market share as patrons wanted to feel they were supporting a 'green' alternative and now all the cab companies have a lot of the hybrids in their fleet.

[rockdoc123]

I think the car will change. Why drive a monster around when a small, lightweight car would do? Why own a car at all?

the fact of the matter is that in North America many people live in suburbs for a reason....the centre of the city is overcrowded, and often rife with crime. In many cities the public transport is either unreliable or overutilized. This requires commuting.

As to your choice of commuter vehicle that is fine and dandy if you live in southern California or Florida but for the greater population that live in areas where snowfall in winter months is common your sewing machine on steroids is a death trap and I wouldn't put my kids in one for all the tea in China.

[kublikhan]

Great. Let me know when the things are actually available for sale, as opposed to mere nice sounding claims. When they are, I'll be impressed. Until then, it won't actually propel a vehicle. Vehicles need BATTERIES, not PROMISES OF BATTERIES.

I can understand your frustration about reading about the latest and greatest research happening, but that should not detract from real advancements being made. Real progress takes time and takes place in stages. First you have basic research, where new ideas, ways of thinking, and a general increase in mankind's knowledge. It is not directly commercially applicable. Then comes applied research. This uses basic research to solve a practical problem. Then comes development. This uses applied research for the production of useful materials, devices, etc. Then comes engineering, which uses what you developed into marketable goods and services. You may be hearing about advances being made at many different points of this R&D spectrum. Some may be many years away from a commercial product. Some may be available next Christmas. And some may never see the light of day at all.

It sounds as if you are only interested in hearing about gadgets that will be available by next Christmas. To me, this seems like a rather disappointing attitude to have. Personally, I like to hear about advances being made at every point in the spectrum, from basic research all the way to new product development. One quote I heard said that if we ignored basic research, we would still be making better spears. I still like to hear about advances in commercial products too, such as this one I posted on a new electric motor that is 30% more powerful and runs 50% longer on the same charge: Electric motor. But I also like to hear about advances in basic and applied research, even if I have to contain my frustration that the advance won't be in my Christmas stocking anytime soon.

Objectives and Types of R & D

The objective of academic and institutional R & D is to obtain new knowledge, which may or may not be applied to practical uses. In contrast, the objective of industrial R & D is to obtain new knowledge, applicable to the company's business needs, that eventually will result in new or improved products, processes, systems, or services that can increase the company's sales and profits.

The National Science Foundation (NSF) defines three types of R & D: basic research, applied research, and development. Basic research has as its objectives a fuller knowledge or understanding of the subject under study, rather than a practical application thereof. As applied to the industrial sector, basic research is defined as research that advances scientific knowledge but does not have specific commercial objectives, although such investigation may be in the fields of present or potential interest to the company.

Applied research is directed towards gaining knowledge or understanding necessary for determining the means by which a recognized and specific need may be met. In industry, applied research includes investigations directed to the discovery of new knowledge having specific commercial objectives with respect to products, processes, or services. Development is the systematic utilization of the knowledge or understanding gained from research toward the production of useful materials, devices, systems, or methods, including design and development of prototypes and processes.

At this point, it is important to differentiate development from engineering, which can be defined as utilization of state-of-the-art knowledge for the design and production of marketable goods and services. In other words, research creates knowledge and development designs, and builds prototypes and proves their feasibility. Engineering then converts these prototypes into products or services that can be offered to the marketplace or into processes that can be used to produce commercial products and services.

Types of Research