THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 5 (merged)

[babystrangeloop]

Isn't that a nifty name for Japan, "Three Meltdown Island", a play on "Three Mile Island"?

NEC to Cut 10,000 Jobs on Forecast of Third Loss in 4 Years
By Kazuyo Sawa and Cheng Herng Shinn / Bloomberg / January 26, 2012

... “The job cuts announced today are bigger than expected,” said Yuichi Ishida, an analyst at Mizuho Investors Securities Co. in Tokyo. ...

Of course the article doesn't even mention the three nuclear meltdowns because you are not supposed to think about or remember them. Plus they are good for the economy because they stimulate stimulus and stimulus is always good for the economy.

Reports: Japan’s TEPCO to Receive Massive State Bailout
Voice of America / January 26, 2012

News reports say the Japanese government is prepared to bailout the owner of the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant for $13 billion. ...

The $13 billion will be well spent on golden parachutes and other essential items while the remaining reactors continue to deteriorate into additional meltdowns.

[dohboi]

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2012/02/bird-numbers-plummet-around-stricken.html

Bird numbers plummet around stricken Fukushima plant

Researchers working around Japan's disabled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant say bird populations there have begun to dwindle, in what may be a chilling harbinger of the impact of radioactive fallout on local life.

In the first major study of the impact of the world's worst nuclear crisis in 25 years, the researchers, from Japan, the US and Denmark, said their analysis of 14 species of bird common to Fukushima and Chernobyl, the Ukrainian city which suffered a similar nuclear meltdown, showed the effect on abundance is worse in the Japanese disaster zone.

The study, published next week in the journal Environmental Pollution, suggests that its findings demonstrate "an immediate negative consequence of radiation for birds during the main breeding season [of] March [to] July".

Meanwhile:

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201202060050

Temperature rises sharply at Fukushima reactor

Tokyo Electric Power Co. reported a spike in temperature in the No. 2 reactor at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant on Feb. 5, forcing it to increase the volume of cooling water there as a precautionary step.

TEPCO said cooling water may not have reached part of the fuel in the reactor’s pressure vessel while it switched to different piping for injecting water and changed the volume of water.

According to TEPCO, a thermometer at the bottom of the pressure vessel measured 71.7 degrees as of 4 p.m. Feb. 5, up from 52 degrees on Feb. 1.

However, readings at two other thermometers installed at the same height in the reactor have remained stable at around 45 degrees.

Radiation levels have shown no changes within the Fukushima No. 1 plant.

The amount of cooling water was increased by 1 ton per hour to 9.6 tons, and the temperature fell to 69.4 degrees as of 5 p.m

http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/02/tepco-is-going-to-inject-boric-acid/

Tepco is going to inject boric acid

On the press conference of 2/6/2012 PM, Tepco announced they are going to add 960 Kg of boric acid tonight in JST.

They increased the amount of water to inject to reactor 2, but it’s still 70.6℃ at 5:00AM on 2/6/2012.

Tepco has started analyzing the gas to publish the data on 2/7/2012.

For the brief report, the amount of Xe135 is ND, (≦ 1Bq/cm3) which denies the possibility of recriticality.

However, they are going to inject 960 kg of boric acid and increase the amount of water by 3 tones.

The reason why they need to add boric acid is not explained.

Wouldn't the only reason for doing this be to avoid re-criticality?

[dohboi]

http://www.bna.bh/portal/en/news/492633


Japan to Measure Radiation Levels in No-Fly Zone around Fukushima Plant

Japan''s government will measure radiation levels around the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant as a step toward revising the no-fly zone over the site. No aircraft has been allowed to fly within a 20-kilometer radius of the plant since the nuclear accident, according to Japan''s (NHK WORLD) website.
Japanese government says it will revise the no-fly zone as it confirmed in December that the nuclear reactors have now reached a state of cold shutdown.

Starting Monday and continuing for several days, helicopters flying at an altitude of about 300 meters will collect air samples around the plant to measure radiation levels.

[M_B_S]

France nuclear electricty situation is very critical!


Price for MWh @ EEX explodes to 600€ / Mwh

http://www.eex.com/en/Market%20Data/Tra ... %20Auction

A MEGA BLACK OUT is possible!

Nuclear energy is not a save haven it is a nightmare.

Acute worldwide uranium shortage after 2013 will follow. Thats the real reason why Germany switches to renewable energy.

M_B_S

http://news.yahoo.com/uk-briefly-france ... 56674.html

"The worst case scenario would be if the German network encounters problems, but this is unlikely as Germans mainly use gas for heating," Besson added.

France, the world's most reliant country on nuclear energy, is forecast to import around 6,500 MW on Monday evening, after subtracting exports to Switzerland, including 2,000 MW drawn from Britain and 1,800 MW from Germany.

[davep]

France nuclear electricty situation is very critical!


Price for MWh @ EEX explodes to 600€ / Mwh

http://www.eex.com/en/Market%20Data/Tra ... %20Auction

A MEGA BLACK OUT is possible!

Nuclear energy is not a save haven it is a nightmare.

Acute worldwide uranium shortage after 2013 will follow. Thats the real reason why Germany switches to renewable energy.

M_B_S

http://news.yahoo.com/uk-briefly-france ... 56674.html

"The worst case scenario would be if the German network encounters problems, but this is unlikely as Germans mainly use gas for heating," Besson added.

France, the world's most reliant country on nuclear energy, is forecast to import around 6,500 MW on Monday evening, after subtracting exports to Switzerland, including 2,000 MW drawn from Britain and 1,800 MW from Germany.

The reason why France is importing a lot of electricity is (a) because it's exceptionally cold and (b) because the nuclear industry creates the base load. It isn't designed to deal with spikes in demand.

I'm not sure where you got the 2013 uranium shortage thing from.

[cephalotus]

To me it is amazing that electric heating seem to be not controlably by the utitilties in France.

In Germany you can switch off heat pumps for 2 hours a day. (you have a slight cost advantage for this)

So instead of a blackout I would suggest to switch off the heating. Better to have 2°C less in your home than no electricity at all.

[M_B_S]

Why uranium shortage 2013? Look @ my biggest thread here!

But I am not allone with my opinion:

http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2012/0 ... h-by-2016/

".The world produced 53,5 million kilograms of uranium in 2010 but consumed 86.1 million kilograms. Thomas Drolet, the president of Drolet & Associates Energy Services, predicted that a uranium shortage will hit the world by 2016 according to Mineweb.com.

Mineweb says the supply crunch is widely expected to begin by next year
A nuclear expert gave uranium supply three more years – at most – before it seriously falls behind demand from the nuclear power industry. The present scenario suggests that a period of shortfall will still play out and those replacements including new reserves and other technologies will be hard put to come on-line fast enough. An expected surge in demand for uranium to fuel new reactors may go unfilled if new supply does not soon come on stream, meaning a setback for China, the United States and other countries that are increasingly relying on nuclear energy to power their economies."

M_B_S

[no_wuckin_ferries_mate]

To me it is amazing that electric heating seem to be not controlably by the utitilties in France.

In Germany you can switch off heat pumps for 2 hours a day. (you have a slight cost advantage for this)

So instead of a blackout I would suggest to switch off the heating. Better to have 2°C less in your home than no electricity at all.

Better to be freezing at home than to have a widespread blackout that would cause a meltdown of all 75 nuclear power plants in France. Dann wirds auch bei euch ungemeutlich.

[M_B_S]

Yesterday electricity for france @ EEX stock exchange was trade at 2000 € / MWh
http://www.eex.com/de/Marktdaten/Handel ... RANCE/-/1d
Poor that i could not sell my electricity made with my own micro cogeneration unit @ EEX

3 kwe * 24h * 2€/kwhe = 120€ per day earnig.

Thats the reason why every old fossile power block in Europe is allowed to go online!

France needs every kilowatt it can buy whatever it costs because there nuclear powerplants could not match demand for home heating. ( 80% )

Its a sunny and cold day here in Germany 10000 MW solarpower is online @ primetime

M_B_S

[PrestonSturges]

There are large high quality uranium deposits in central Virginia, but the local Republican fox and hound set with their $100,000 an acre horse ranches would rather see drilling off Florida's beaches.

[Serial_Worrier]

There are large high quality uranium deposits in central Virginia, but the local Republican fox and hound set with their $100,000 an acre horse ranches would rather see drilling off Florida's beaches.

You do realize that the age of aristocracy ended in 1918?

[jbrovont]

... you can't be serious.

There are large high quality uranium deposits in central Virginia, but the local Republican fox and hound set with their $100,000 an acre horse ranches would rather see drilling off Florida's beaches.

You do realize that the age of aristocracy ended in 1918?

[dohboi]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-13/tepco-says-fukushima-reactor-temperature-breaches-safety-limit.html

Tepco Says Fukushima Reactor Temperature Breaches Safety Limit

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (9501) said the temperature in one of the damaged reactors at its Fukushima nuclear station rose to levels above safety limits even as it injected increased amounts of cooling water.

One of three thermometers indicated the temperature at the bottom of the No. 2 reactor pressure vessel rose to 93.7 degrees Celsius (200.7 Fahrenheit) today, higher than the 80 degrees limit, Ai Tanaka, a spokeswoman for the utility known as Tepco, said by phone today.

[dohboi]

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/14/10408881-report-russia-faced-major-nuclear-disaster-in-2011

How many near misses don't we hear about?

[dohboi]

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2012/02/fukushima-return-to-disaster-zone.html

The concrete building housing Reactor One, blown apart in the first explosion on 12 March, is now completely covered with a tarpaulin to contain its radioactivity. As our bus drives past the building, the beeping dosimeters climb to 100 microsieverts an hour. But as the most badly damaged Reactor Three looms into sight, its mess of tangled metal and steel gives off a startling reading of 1,500 microsieverts. Its cargo of lethal fuel includes plutonium and the roof of the building housing the reactor was blown off in the second explosion. "It's still too dangerous for workers to enter Reactor Three," says engineer Yasuki Hibi.

[SeaGypsy]

Thought to bump this thread as it gets into a lot of detail as Tanada convinces me the possible value of nukes in staving off doom. I started off this thread vehemently opposed to nukes really, but the arguments presented in this thread swung me.

[SeaGypsy]

I am wanting to bump this thread as it hasn't been up for more than 2 years and contains the basis of an argument in support of nuclear energy as the most viable transition fuel for the coming century.
Nukes have since this thread was written suffered more bad press with Fukushima in particular and now the Iran peaceful/ not so peaceful issue. I wonder what Tanada would add to her positions here since the time past?

[Tanada]

Fukushima is being very badly reported on by a sensational media. I didn't bother getting into the whole end of the world scenario's on the thread about it because it wasn't worth wasting my time once again shooting down all the sensational emotion filled fact free arguments once again. In 7 years on this site we have been over the arguments ad nauseum. If people want to learn as you did from this thread then they will. If they want to just feel the thrill of potential world ending disaster then that is what they will get because they are not willing to be rational and objective.

Fact #1, the reactor at Fukushima that caused 85% of the problems was scheduled for decommissioning within moths of the time the Tsunami struck. The fuel in it was nearly spent at the end of its useful energy producing lifespan and hence as absolutely radioactive as it would ever be on the day of the disaster. It needed active cooling because it was generating a lot of heat even with the reactor shut down and it didn't get active cooling because of the damage caused by the Tsunami.

Fact #2, expect for a very few cases nobody has been killed, irradiated, injured or physically harmed by Fukushima. The number of dead related to Fukushima is well under 100 the last time I looked. Katrina killed over 1000 and the Tsunami in general passed 19,300!!! Focusing on Fukushima is like having a gaping head wound but worrying about a hangnail.

In order of preference for me of the electric power supplies currently available for human use 1) Geothermal, 2) land based Hydropower, 3) sea based hydropower, 4) Nuclear Fission, 5) Wind, 6) Solar PV. Natural Gas is our best fossil choice and Coal our last resort to get the electricity we need to keep our civilization going while we transition. Unfortunately Solar PV is prohibitively expensive, Wind is intermittent in most locations and rather pricey as well. All of the rest of my preferred choices have multiple groups objecting to their use.

[AdTheNad]

Fact #1, the reactor at Fukushima that caused 85% of the problems was scheduled for decommissioning within moths of the time the Tsunami struck.

This seems a strange thing to bring up, considering how many other reactors around the world that have been scheduled for decommissioning end up being given extensions. I have no links or anything to back that up, but it's how a recall seeing things being said in various threads, so please correct me if I'm wrong. On that basis, do you actually believe, had the tsunami not struck, that Fukushima would have been decommissioned?

[Tanada]

Fact #1, the reactor at Fukushima that caused 85% of the problems was scheduled for decommissioning within moths of the time the Tsunami struck.

This seems a strange thing to bring up, considering how many other reactors around the world that have been scheduled for decommissioning end up being given extensions. I have no links or anything to back that up, but it's how a recall seeing things being said in various threads, so please correct me if I'm wrong. On that basis, do you actually believe, had the tsunami not struck, that Fukushima would have been decommissioned?

Yes, the Japanese were planning to decommission this reactor because it was old and inefficient and were planning to replace it with a brand new very efficient unit. Make no mistake, the decommissioning process is a lengthy one and if the Tsunami had struck this year instead of in 2011 the active cooling in the spent rod pool would have still been a problem when the power was lost, but the scale of the leaks would have been very different because after 9 months in the cooling pool the worst of the decay heating period would have been over. Much less heat, very little chance of fuel melting and releasing radioactive steam plumes as a result. Thus much less need for workers to endanger themselves attempting emergency measures to cool the remaining units at the complex.