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Hello - new to PO

Unread postby ChevalNoir » Sat 29 Oct 2011, 15:12:15

Hello – decided to join the PO club today. I’m British, went to live in Alberta (home of the Tar Sands :( :shock: and the beautiful prairie :-D ) 2005-10, came home to Europe last year and now in SW France. I brought my rare breed horses with me. Probably not the right time to take such a financial gamble in the middle of a global recession but I couldn’t leave them. My specific interest about the preparation for a different way of life is to reintroduce the horse to our world. I am interested in growing some of my own food and to learn more about using 'living horse power’ on the land.
During my time in Alberta food prices rocketed and to keep the livestock fed I had to adapt or starve. The reason for the price hike was/is the cost of fuel – even trucking food from eastern British Columbia into western Alberta could add heavily to the food price once it hit the shelves. Lack of agricultural subsidies such as in the EU meant that cheese, for example, was too expensive to buy. I am eating more cheaply here in France but I can cook and regional produce helps although some food prices are very much higher now. Add in the back door privatization of the Alberta health service and I decided to come back to the EU. There is more going on in North America that (imo) has its roots in the oil age coming to a close. For example, less food crops are being raised having been replaced by bio-fuel crops. Hay this year has rocketed so some livestock will starve this winter.
I have been rationing petrol now for five years because I have to.
So I’m interested in knowing if anyone else is looking at what horses can do for us and growing their own food as well as enabling people who can't cook to do so. Cheaper and healthier.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby Arthur75 » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 10:39:34

Hello and welcome ! (at PO.com and in France :) )
How many horses did you bring from Canada to France ? Is it done by plane ? Boat ?
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 11:27:16

You are most welcome here, ChevalNoir.

My wife and I started a small homestead in the Idaho panhandle (just south of Alberta) in 2005 and have been building it up for the eventual energy decline. We owned 2 horses until 2009. The thought was that they would be needed in a fast crash scenario, however the feed/hay prices did indeed climb steeply in 2008 and we decided that the animals were too much of a liability at that time. Also we change our thinking related to the speed and nature of the crash as we saw the impact of high oil prices on the world economy. In the future we believe that we can always acquire a horse or two from one of the many local breeders. One future plan related to transportation is to buy a 19th century doctor's buggy (the Amish still make these), this is more or less a two wheel, single horse cart with a hooped cover over a two person bench.

I think SW France is a good choice for a location to settle in. Have you purchased some land. Even a half acre can generated a lot of food.

Again, welcome and good luck with your efforts.
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby ChevalNoir » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 14:33:24

Thank you for the welcome. The horses travelled by plane from Calgary to Luxembourg and maybe because they travelled together did not seem upset by the experience and have all settled in to their new life in France. I brought five Spanish Mustangs having becoming involved with the breed in 2000 by a chance encounter (long story :roll: ). They are a small horse and easy keepers so cheaper to keep than larger more refined breeds. I can honestly say they are the most intelligent breed of horse I have ever met and able to be trained for all aspects of horse work. They get good health care though like any other horse - worming, vaccinations - and are well-fed but on a mostly hay diet. One is trained to ride but I'm interested in having them trained to pull - carriage, plough. Petrol is expensive here in France as it was in Canada in that it fluctuates inconsistently and I foresee the day when I may only be able to afford to take the car out once a week. So having one rideable horse at least to go into town will be useful. In total for this winter I have five adults and two foals born this summer as I brought two mares over bred. Next year is about finding anyone over here who is already working with horses on the land. I've been lucky with hay so far and booked my winter requirement back in August. I cannot believe the price of hay in the USA and worry that more horses will die this winter.
I'm interested to know more though about how much stockpiling of tinned food people are doing. I don't want to seem dramatic but what might be considered reasonable and what do others think of this? Are we allowed to post websites here as I have mine if anyone wants to take a look?
Thanks for mentioning the Amish carriage. I was lucky to see some Amish people when I was staying in York County, PA few years ago and we took a drive out to Lancaster County. Fascinating day. :-D
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 14:54:10

Horses in our area are being sold dirt cheap. Those sold to the knackers are going for as little as $50. Hay prices went up dramatically in 2008 and have stayed high, so people that were marginal riders have unloaded their stock. We actually sold our saddles and tack and gave the horses as a gift to the buyer. :( I miss them still but it was the right decision at the time.

Many of the people here stock some food. My family has enough stored food (a combination of dehydrated food in #10 cans, grains and beans in 5 gallon buckets, frozen food, preserved food from our small farm) to last 2 people for 2 years. We also have two years of non-hybrid seeds in the freezer to start a large garden as a backup to the seeds we save every year.

Posting websites is fine as long as they are not meant to divert traffic away from peakoil.com or blatant sales sites.

RE: Amish. I lived in NYC for a number of years and took a lot of trips throughout New England. At the time I found the Amish to be unique and a bit odd. Now I see them as an essential model of the way we all should (and eventually will have to) be living.

Just curious, what county did you come from in England?
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett

"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby ChevalNoir » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 02:39:34

I am from Surrey, in SE England originally. The crisis in the horse market to today is very sad in so many ways apart from the slaughter aspect. If anyone with land could take in just two and ensure they are rideable and trained for driving (carriage or plough) it would save so many. One of the problems is the BLM turning horses off the land that was supposed to be designated for the wild herds to make way for growing bio fuels. There is so much land still in the USA and I just wish a piece could be set aside for the wild herds with human intervention for population control. If it were a 501c donations could be accepted.

The Amish were a privilege and master cabinet makers. Their carpentry and woodwork was stunning and sold for high prices too.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby Pops » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 11:37:45

Hi ChevalNoir, welcome.

Your nickname and question are apropos, since of course the rider of the Black Horse is famine. :-D

I could see owning a horse if you owned a good amount of grazable land they could be rotated on. I have 40 acres and maybe someday my grandkids might ride a buggy into town but today I think a horse is just a lawn ornament. A draft horse built to do work would take what, 5 acres of good grass plus hay winter & summer and somewhere to go when the ground is frozen or muddy? We bought our place from an Amish family who kept their horses on 1 - 7 acre paddock and it was just about ruined - and they were only used for going to town and church, they hired all their farm work done with a tractor.

If I thought fuel would be unavailable I'd train an ox or even a milk cow to pull. She'd be a better value, doing very well on grass alone with a tougher constitution than a horse. She'd make beef and milk in addition to her replacement - and she could pull a light weight sickle bar and rake and on the weekend she could pull my cart to town to the Occupy Main Street protest. :lol:

Anyway, I think horses are pretty and a fun hobby but planning to use them next year to farm or ride to town is like the gun guy who uses po as an excuse to buy his umpteenth gun - it's planning for the scenario you wish for instead of the one most likely to occur. Not that that is a bad thing necessarily, just realize that there is a lot of getting from here to there before we're back to the horse and carriage.

But that's just my take. :)
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby ChevalNoir » Wed 02 Nov 2011, 13:09:22

I agree with some of what you say 'Pops' but if you have 40 acres then there is room for two horses. My point is that if more people just took two this would in some way contribute to decreasing the appalling number being sent for slaughter. I know that more control over breeding needs to implemented but that is another issue. Interesting point about an ox and I wonder if they will become a future sight on the land. A draught horse need not be huge. The horses the Spanish brought over to the New World included a small draught horse called the Pottok (still some in SW France) that was used on the land. They were barely 14h but as strong as, er well, an ox. :lol:
This is certainly a fascinating website and forum. Interesting threads. My biggest Spanish Mustang is 14.2h but they are tough horses and quick learners. As for riding my horse into town - I'm looking forward to doing that soon. I'll post a photo 8)
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 08 Jan 2012, 22:03:29

I don't know the breed, with a max of 14.2 hands must be on the Arabian end of the spectrum? Do you know their conversion rates when compared to thoroughbreds or pure arabs? I have found arabs average double the efficiency of thoroughbreds, besides having a more fiesty nature.
Here in Oz in a dry year horses go for knacker's prices also.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby Heineken » Tue 10 Jan 2012, 12:49:20

Hello and welcome, ChevalNoir. I hope your time here will be enjoyable and educational.

Anyone who loves animals in general and horses in particular is OK by me! I'd keep a couple of horses but I'm scared off by the costs and the maintenance. Instead I make do with a nutty dog I rescued from the pound 11 years ago . . .
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby Revi » Tue 10 Jan 2012, 13:29:10

I have a friend who has Canadien horses and brings them over to our maple sugarhouse every spring. They are a very versatile breed that can be used for just about anything and are really tough. They aren't as big as a traditional workhorse nor as fragile as a lot of thoroughbreds. He uses one for a buggy and a team to pull a larger cart. They are really well trained, but they take a lot of time. I think a horse like that may be the way to go. They are usually black and called the petit cheval de fer, or the little iron horse.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby sportsbet01 » Sun 22 Jan 2012, 04:34:34

Hello Everyone,,

I am new here.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sun 22 Jan 2012, 04:38:12

Revi wrote:I have a friend who has Canadien horses and brings them over to our maple sugarhouse every spring. They are a very versatile breed that can be used for just about anything and are really tough. They aren't as big as a traditional workhorse nor as fragile as a lot of thoroughbreds. He uses one for a buggy and a team to pull a larger cart. They are really well trained, but they take a lot of time. I think a horse like that may be the way to go. They are usually black and called the petit cheval de fer, or the little iron horse.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby FloridaGirl » Mon 23 Jan 2012, 00:14:43

Welcome ChevalNoir and sportsbet01!

I have horses as well. I have had horses for decades as they are part of who I am. A name like ChevalNoir would have been appropriate for me as 3 of my 4 horses are black (or almost black). Although I believe horses will become more of a necessity in the future, I am not looking forward to that time. At least now, people usually have horses because they like horses where, in the old days, people had horses because they needed them whether they liked them or not.

I'd like to train my horses to pull a cart or wagon but I haven't done so yet. I should at least buy a wagon and harness just in case.

We have canned goods stored and we are learning to grow vegetables. My thought with the canned goods is to have enough to get us through till we can plant and harvest a bigger garden.
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Re: Hello - new to PO

Unread postby agate » Mon 05 Mar 2012, 05:15:42

Hello friends, this is Agate and I am new to this forum, informative post I loved to read this actually.
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