Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary

[salinanekol]

thanks for such a nice info.

[Expatriot]

6 pages on laundry detergent?

[Loki]

6 pages on laundry detergent?

What, you don't wash your clothes?

[Ayoob]

Amazingly enough, I have a ton of input on this topic.

First and foremost is the incredible staying power of Dr. Bronner's magic Castille based soap coupled with a Dawn dishwashing foamer. You know, the little six ounce (or so) pumps that give you pre-foamed handfulls of suds? Dilute Dr. Bronner's soap 7:1 and put it in a foamer, and you will be absolutely astounded how far it stretches in the shower or for handwashing. I bought a gallon of DB's soap at least three years ago and haven't gone through half of it yet. I shower twice a day and probably wash my hands 3-5 times a day at home. When the foamer runs low, I pour just enough to cover the bottom and maybe half a centimeter above that, mix with warm water, agitate, and allow to disperse into the suspension. Then, use the foamer. I don't skimp on the foam either, I just dump it on myself, my back brush, face, everywhere. It doesn't last because I use it sparingly, it just seems the combination of dilution and the foamer seem to squeeze every last bit of cleaning power out of that soap. I feel totally clean and love how squeaky I feel afterwards.

I happen to like the peppermint, it gives me a nice zing in the goolies.

I have one foamer in the shower, one in the master bedroom sink for me, and one at the kitchen sink. Three years now, and it's maybe halfway through. I paid $25 for the soap and $15 for shipping (which I thought was outrageous) but hot damn if it hasn't outperformed almost any product I've ever used in my lifetime.

Next is laundry soap. Dig around on the net, you'll find different formulations for homemade laundry detergent. I just started using this about a week ago, but have had great results so far. You set up your food processor for Grate, take somewhere between a half and a third of a bar of Fels Naptha soap, or Zota I think, or an entire bar of Ivory or Irish Spring or Dial or whatever kind of bar soap you like, and grind it up. Switch to the mixing blade, and add somewhere between half a cup to a cup of Borax, a full cup of Arm and Hammer Washing Soda, and a full cup of any of the oxygen bleaches, such as Oxo Brite or Oxy Clean or something like that. Make sure it's a laundry booster... I picked up a jar of Oxy Something at Dollar General and found out that it wasn't the same thing, definitely not to be used with laundry. One tablespoon for lightly soiled, one and a half for medium soiled, two for filthy stuff. Supposedly too much Borax can leave your whites gray, and adding Arm and Hammer baking soda is good for removing odors. So you stinky ones out there, go get you some baking soda and add it to the mix. Some recipes call for a quarter cup, some for a full cup, I splurged and went with a full cup.

The procedure is to grind the soap, remove from food processor, switch to the METAL chopper (to further break up the soap since it's gonna be about the consistency of grated cheddar cheese), add the washing soda, borax, oxywhatever, and baking soda. Spin it for five minutes, even though it looks like it's done in a minute. Go ahead and burn the coal for an extra four minutes, it will help disperse the ingredients.

If you order Oxo Brite from Amazon that's the cheapest way to get oxygen bleach substitute, but from the reviews it doesn't get packed right so you want a 60oz container to catch the stuff from the one that breaks in the box, but the other one will be fine.

I lowsided my motorcycle off a twisty road last week, and my jeans were FUCKED UP with vine juice, dirt, blood, everything else you can think of. This detergent got everything out except the blood. It turns out that there's a spray available from Amazon that's specific to protein stains that gets out blood, even if it's old. I'm ordering it tonight and gonna see how it goes.

We use cloth diapers for our little one (soon to be two) so lots of shit goes through our washing machine. We haven't found any problems with this formulation yet and no breakdown for the elastic in the little ones' clothes.

For fabric softener, me and the old lady ran across something on the net that said to buy a bottle of fabric softener and put a couple drops on a clean rag and throw that in with your laundry and it'll work better than dryer sheets. It sure did, and that bottle of fabric softener went bad before we ran out. I think we went two years on one bottle of fabric softener before it got locker room funky.

The latest thing I ran into was filling the bleach container in your washing machine with white vinegar, and that will soften your clothes better than using fabric softener, but I haven't gotten around to that yet. I'm going to try it this week and check back in with my results.

In that same article, it mentioned putting a couple drops of your essential oil of choice on a clean rag and throw THAT in your dryer instead of fabric softener when you add vinegar to the bleach container in your washing machine. I happen to know my old lady likes lavender for sleep, so when we do our jammies and sheets and pillowcases and all that stuff, I think I'll try adding the lavender. I can't smell a goddamn thing so it doesn't make any difference to me, but if it makes her happy I'll take a step off the precipice and risk smelling a little lavender at bedtime.

Also, to clean the pipes in my sinks and showers, I pile up some baking soda on the drain and pour white vinegar on it until I get about a quart of return foam. Hair plugs, junk, whatever, I pluck it all out and throw it in the toilet and flush. Any time I notice something isn't draining right, out comes the baking soda and vinegar.

Just to throw one more in, have you guys heard of something called a Netty Pot? I just heard of them this past week and decided to blow an entire $11 on an IMPROVED netty pot setup. It's a salt/baking soda/other crap packet you dump into a bottle with a nozzle. Mix the powder with warm water, and open your mouth as though you were going to speak. The idea is to close off the bottom of your oropharynx. Stick the nozzle up the nose hole of your choice and squeeze the bottle. It should fill up one side of your nasal passages and then dump on out through the other nose hole, and you shouldn't have anything go down your throat into your lungs. Then switch sides and blast it back the other way. I get four or five good squirts total out of my bottle. An ER doc told me that no matter how much infectious pus and shit he winds up with in his nose, he hasn't gotten sick in seven years since doing a daily Netty Pot.

If I can figure out the formulation they use in those little foil packets I'm going to mix it up myself and save about 99% on refills.

So far, I've gotten good results from cleaning out my nasal passages. I seem to breathe a little easier.

I'll plan on checking back in a month or so from now with my findings on vinegar instead of fabric softener.

[pedalling_faster]

i have rebelled against Laundry Detergent myself for about 20 years.

however, i must confess ... clothes do get cleaner with it.

i remember getting into an argument with my Dad 20 years ago. i ended up sleeping in my truck that night, at my own choice.

i have tried it with & without.

there's a number of considerations - cosmetic, smell, washing off poison oak.

i don't think it's disgusting or anything to go without it, but i do find there's times when you need it.

now for the comparison between the "cheap stuff" and Tide. i'm using the Cheap Stuff ... Tide will have to finance the comparison if they want me to use Tide.

[Loki]

Ayoob, have you tried straight Dr Bronners for laundry? That's the only soap I use but never tried it for laundry. Used it to wash my hair for a while but it left my scalp super dry.

It seems easy enough to make your own detergent, and probably a fair bit cheaper, but it still requires purchased ingredients. I buy a box of detergent maybe once a year, the eco-green treehuggy crap, a bit spendier, but $12 or whatever once a year is not a significant expense.

I think the device you use to wash your clothes is more important than the detergent when it comes to preparedness. I started a thread on non-electric ways to wash clothes a few years back (pic below). I'll be honest and admit that I haven't used this set up in quite some time, it's actually stored in a friend's basement right now. I have been thinking of breaking it out again, though, as I haven't had a washing machine for a few months, so I have to drive to the laundromat to do laundry now. Requires driving and LOTS of quarters.

Now the sun is out again, I can dry my clothes outside. The plunging part of my low tech set up isn't all that much work, but getting a wringer would be quite helpful, as hand wringing jeans and towels is no fun at all. I'll have to keep my eye out for a commercial grade mop wringer.

I can also heat water on my new rocket stove using nothing but sticks. No more damn quarters going down the drain.

[Ayoob]

I found the formulation for Neti Pot solution. One teaspoon salt, one teaspoon baking soda, one quart of water. Agitate, pour into Neti pot, and apply as necessary. Mix up a quart, keep it in the bathroom, fill up the Neti at your morning and evening shower, and use.

Cheap, useful, cuts down on everything and anything, I love the things.

Of course my wife thinks they're "gross."

Enjoy your hay fever all day honey.

[Ayoob]

Ayoob, have you tried straight Dr Bronners for laundry? That's the only soap I use but never tried it for laundry. Used it to wash my hair for a while but it left my scalp super dry.

It seems easy enough to make your own detergent, and probably a fair bit cheaper, but it still requires purchased ingredients. I buy a box of detergent maybe once a year, the eco-green treehuggy crap, a bit spendier, but $12 or whatever once a year is not a significant expense.

I think the device you use to wash your clothes is more important than the detergent when it comes to preparedness. I started a thread on non-electric ways to wash clothes a few years back (pic below). I'll be honest and admit that I haven't used this set up in quite some time, it's actually stored in a friend's basement right now. I have been thinking of breaking it out again, though, as I haven't had a washing machine for a few months, so I have to drive to the laundromat to do laundry now. Requires driving and LOTS of quarters.

Now the sun is out again, I can dry my clothes outside. The plunging part of my low tech set up isn't all that much work, but getting a wringer would be quite helpful, as hand wringing jeans and towels is no fun at all. I'll have to keep my eye out for a commercial grade mop wringer.

I can also heat water on my new rocket stove using nothing but sticks. No more damn quarters going down the drain.

Haven't tried Bronner's for laundry, but I could easily see how that would be effective. I could buy a bar of lavender and grind it into the powder for bedroom linens so my wife could enjoy the scent, and use the Fels Naptha for everyday BS.

Having gone back to working for a living... busting my ass and sweating for 12 hours a day... I can say that agitating some laundry vigorously sounds like something I want a machine to do for me. I want to rest on my time off. Even if I had to hook up a bicycle to it to get the energy transfer done, I'd rather do it that way.

[Loki]

Having gone back to working for a living... busting my ass and sweating for 12 hours a day... I can say that agitating some laundry vigorously sounds like something I want a machine to do for me. I want to rest on my time off. Even if I had to hook up a bicycle to it to get the energy transfer done, I'd rather do it that way.

I work on a farm, so my work is pretty physical, too. Doing laundry by hand isn't really all that hard, but certainly more so than stuffing a machine and pushing a button. For me it's something I only need to do once every two weeks or so on a weekend, not a big deal. Doing laundry by hand would also save me some money, and allow me to avoid interacting with the irritating people at the laundrymat....

My main motivation for doing manual laundry is preparedness, being reliant on the grid for basic needs isn't prudent.

A bicycle set-up wouldn't be a bad idea, probably more efficient, esp for a family-sized laundry load. But I hate cardio, always preferred upper body workouts. Plunging is good for the triceps

[RedStateGreen]

Read through this thread shaking my head. We used cloth diapers on all our kids, had a service but the diaper wraps still got pretty bad. I just threw them in the washer with the rest, just like my husband's working outside clothes, etc. I've never boiled clothes in my life!

Our family is never sick but I attribute the kids not getting sick to nursing all three of them for over a year each, plus we eat organic and I cook just about every night. The only time we've ever been sick in the past ten years (other than allergies and such) is after eating out ...

My husband and I are pretty healthy just on our own I guess, but we don't do antibacterial anything, it's not a good idea.

I haven't used shampoo in years, just use a little vinegar on my hair once in a blue moon if it gets particularly oily. Nice hot water seems to do just as well and brushing it out every night. I also don't use toothpaste as I'm sensitive to something in it, it gives me canker sores. So I use water and this stuff called OraMD that you just use a drop at a time for my gums, and also a waterpik in the shower. My teeth are doing just fine.

I like the idea of not using laundry detergent. I have washed the clothes in cold water for years also, with a locally made detergent which doesn't suds up much. I'm going to try with and without and see how it goes.

[Serial_Worrier]

Sorry, this is where I draw the line. I love totally clean clothes and I will continue to use the full amount of detergent with warm water.

[Sixstrings]

I've always used cold water for laundry. I honestly don't understand why you ever need to use hot (something to do with colors fading?).. I can't tell a difference. Plus I have a switch on my water heater.. so it would be a hassle to flip it just for laundry. For showers it's no big deal, heats up in ten minutes. Saves a lot on electricity.. 24/7 hot water is totally unnecessary, anyone can flip a switch ten minutes before bathing.

As for detergent.. I would think it's necessary for dirt and whatnot. What I do is use very little, like only half a cup for a whole load. Stuff comes out smelling good so works for me.

[LGW]

Not unneccesary at all. My jeans stay smelly and spotty from all the fat and dirt worked into them if I do not use detergent.
Raising temperature reduces need for detergent but destroys the fabric and makes them shrink.
My preference is ordinary amounts of biologically degradable detergent, and a low temperature (35C).

[Heineken]

I haven't found detergent to make much of a difference, as I said originally. OTOH, I'm a guy and not a gal. One's person's clean is another person's dirty, perhaps.

So why use detergent? Could it be because we're programmed by advertisers and culture to use detergent? If we are conditioned to believe it makes a difference, perhaps we will "perceive" a difference.

I'm sure there are perfumes in laundry detergents that make the clothes smell cleaner. But that doesn't mean they are cleaner.

Now, drying on a line and drying in a dryer makes a big difference in how something feels. I (and my wife) continue to use a dryer because of all the time and trouble it saves.

[Loki]

Good to see you again Heineken

[Pretorian]

holy crap last time i've read you your bottle cap was on the left.

[Keith_McClary]

holy crap last time i've read you your bottle cap was on the left.

I don't remember it looking so old and crinkly.

[tsakach]

Strange as it may sound, one of my consulting jobs was with a company that manufactured equipment for industrial laundry systems. The laundry process was described to me as resulting from the force of water driving soil from cloth. For example, washing clothes by hand can be done by beating and scrubbing cloth without soap or detergent. If needed, water heated to above 160F will kill most bacteria. No laundry detergent is needed at all!

The waste water can be recycled with a grey-water system called "laundry to landscape":

Conventional plumbing systems dispose of greywater via septic tanks or sewers. The many drawbacks of this practice include overloading treatment systems, contaminating natural waters with poorly treated effluent, and high ecological/economic cost.
Greywater reuse follows the same principles that make wild rivers clean…even though they drain many square miles of dirt, worms, and feces. Beneficial bacteria break down nasties into water-soluble plant food, and the plants eat it, leaving pure water.

http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/index.htm

[Heineken]

Good to see you again Heineken

Thanks Loki (and Pretorian). Don't know why I've been gone so long. Just got tired of typing, I guess. (It was my second long vacation from PO.)

I've missed you guys, though, and the interesting exchanges.

[Heineken]

Strange as it may sound, one of my consulting jobs was with a company that manufactured equipment for industrial laundry systems. The laundry process was described to me as resulting from the force of water driving soil from cloth. For example, washing clothes by hand can be done by beating and scrubbing cloth without soap or detergent. If needed, water heated to above 160F will kill most bacteria. No laundry detergent is needed at all!

The waste water can be recycled with a grey-water system called "laundry to landscape":

Conventional plumbing systems dispose of greywater via septic tanks or sewers. The many drawbacks of this practice include overloading treatment systems, contaminating natural waters with poorly treated effluent, and high ecological/economic cost.
Greywater reuse follows the same principles that make wild rivers clean…even though they drain many square miles of dirt, worms, and feces. Beneficial bacteria break down nasties into water-soluble plant food, and the plants eat it, leaving pure water.

http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/index.htm

I rerouted the grey water discharge from our washing machine. It no longer flows into the septic tank, but collects in a barrel under the house and is sump-pumped through a pipe into the woods. This takes a huge strain off the septic drainfield. I highly recommend this if you have a large country place, even though it might be technically illegal.