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THE Eurozone Economics Thread pt 1 (merged) Archived

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sat 29 Oct 2011, 05:36:48

Merkel is now acutely aware of the Pandora's Box of moral hazards that have been unleashed with the 50% Greek haircut, and the likelihood that other debtor sovereigns will want the same treatment ...
Says Merkel: "In Europe it must be prevented that others come seeking a haircut."
(Reuters) - Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday it was important to prevent others from seeking debt reductions after European Union leaders struck a deal with private banks to accept a nominal 50 percent cut on their Greek government debt holdings.

"In Europe it must be prevented that others come seeking a haircut," she said. Speaking in the Bavarian town of Deggendorf, Merkel also said that it was important to put restraints of speculative financial elements and show banks with better regulations. Merkel also told a meeting of her conservative party that it will take many years to overcome the sovereign debt crisis, noting that it was affecting not only Europe but also the United States and Japan as well.
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 29 Oct 2011, 07:33:13

There are rumblings here in Ireland for a share in the haircut!
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 13:21:57

Czech Republic Seeking to Nullify Commitment to Enter Eurozone

BRUSSELS - The ruling euro-sceptic ODS party in the Czech Republic wants to push for a referendum on the country's future eurozone accession, claiming that the rules have changed since 2003 when Czechs said yes to the EU and the euro. The recent agreement on another bail-out for Greece and on boosting the eurozone's bailout fund is fuelling Czech calls for a referendum, said Czech MEP Jan Zahradil, leader of the European Conservatives and Reformists.

"We should allow non-eurozone members – such as my country the Czech Republic – to decide again whether they wish to enter. We signed up to a monetary union, not a transfer union or a bond union in our accession treaty. This is the major reason why the Czech Prime minister wishes to call the referendum on this matter," Zahradil said in a statement.

The Czech Republic, along with all other eastern European countries that joined the EU in 2004 and 2007, is obliged to adopt the euro once budget deficit and other economic conditions are met. Slovenia, Estonia and neighbouring Slovakia are already members of the 17-strong club. Latvia is also striving to join, while Poland, though still seeing it as goal, says eurozone accession is no longer a priority. But none has so far demanded a referendum, since nine of newest member states, including the Czech Republic, already had a plebiscite on joining the EU.

Last weekend, at an ODS party congress, Prime Minister Petr Necas demanded a referendum on whether the country should join the eurozone. "The conditions under which the Czech citizens decided in a referendum in 2003 on the country's accession to the EU and on its commitment to adopt the single currency, euro, have changed. That is why the ODS will demand that a possible accession to the single currency and the entry into the European stabilisation mechanism be decided on by Czech citizens," the ODS resolution says.

Prime Minister Necas also floated the idea in case Germany gets it way on another treaty change bringing about more economic integration and tougher sanctions for deficit sinners. "In the event that there is a change to fundamental rights that would result in powers being transferred from national organs to European organs, this government is bound to ratify this step with a referendum,” Necas told reporters in Brussels on Sunday evening. ...


Gee, why the second thoughts about entering the Eurozone? What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 13:23:15

dolanbaker wrote:There are rumblings here in Ireland for a share in the haircut!


And those rumblings will grow LOUDER by the week ...
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Lore » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 13:29:08

I'm going to ask Merkel if she can get my bank to take a haircut.
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 13:37:16

Lore wrote:I'm going to ask Merkel if she can get my bank to take a haircut.


Let's do a conference call with Merkel ... I'd like a 50% haircut on my mortgage ...
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Sun 30 Oct 2011, 23:44:02

Telegraph: China warns it cannot 'cure' the eurozone's debt crisis

China has stressed it will not be a "saviour" to Europe as President Hu Jintao embarks on an official visit to the continent that will take in this Thursday's crucial G20 summit in Cannes. "China can neither take up the role as a saviour to the Europeans, nor provide a 'cure' for the European malaise," Xinhua news agency stated. "Obviously, it is up to European countries themselves to tackle their financial problems." Chinese officials also sought to play down hopes of a breakthrough at the G20. Vice Finance Minister Zhu Guangyao said that investment in the bail-out fund was not on the agenda at present.
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 06:18:03

Greek Contagion Spreads to Italy -- Eurozone Bailout Half-life Down to 48 Hours

The duration of the European bailout was 48 hours give or take. And now reality is back in the form of the following headlines:

— Italian 10 Year BTP Yield surges to all time high 6.153%
— Italian-German 10 year yield passes 400 bps
— Italy CDS soar 22 bps to 427 bps
— Italy 5 Year yields bonds join drop, yield rises to over record 5.91%

See a trend? The one thing Europe was trying to avoid, contagion spreading to Italy, has happened.


So the bailout that took months to hammer away ... has a half-life of 48 hours. True, the Greek problem has been solved (somewhat) for a few months ... but now the focus has switched to the PIIS countries ...
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby tsakach » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 12:37:52

Think-tank sparks fears of second recession by slashing eurozone growth forecast

The OECD has suggested that growth will be just 0.3 per cent (Euro area) - down from a two per cent forecast in the spring - as it comes to a near-halt, hitting Britain's economic prospects.

The UK's GDP figures will be published tomorrow and it is expected that economists' forecasts will be grim.

The OECD also warned that some eurozone countries could see contractions of up to five per cent by the first half of 2013.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055695/Eurozone-debt-crisis-OECD-sparks-fears-2nd-recession.html
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Pops » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 13:12:48

The interesting thing to me is how everyone is trying to get the investors to take a "haircut" without triggering the CDS avalanche.

A CDS (credit default swap) - if I understand this particular bit of modern finance - is sorta like insurance that protects an investor in the case of a default. But unlike real insurance, the person buying the CDS doesn't necessarily need to be the lender or even anyone involved in the loan.

Really, it's just a bet.

So, TPTB are trying to make it appear that is not a default if the lenders, bond holders, etc voluntarily take a 50% haircut (not partial default) because a real default (50.1% ?) would trigger the implosion of X-Trillions in such bets.
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby dolanbaker » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 13:23:31

MF Global files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15519124
MF Global MF Global could be one of the biggest eurozone debt casualties


US brokerage firm MF Global has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after revealing £4bn of eurozone debt exposure.

The US brokerage, which has 2,000 staff worldwide including 600 in London, is said to be planning to sell its assets to rival Interactive Brokers Group.

Shares in MF Global were suspended by the New York authorities on Monday.


This snowball's started to roll. :twisted:
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby dolanbaker » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 13:40:55

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15526719
Greece will hold a referendum on a new European Union aid package intended to resolve the country's debt crisis, Prime Minister George Papandreou says.

Mr Papandreou said a vote of no-confidence would also be held on the deal - but no dates were set.

The package envisages losses of up to 50% for private holders of Greek debt and a new 100bn euro loan ($140bn).

There have been large-scale protests in Greece against the austerity measures introduced by the government.

Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby careinke » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 14:06:32

Revi wrote: Welcome to our world. I say we reoccupy our economy. Starve the beast. Time banks, alternative ways of living. Then the bankers will be sitting on a pile of fiat currency that nobody wants.


I've been trying that approach for a few years now. I'm slowly working myself off the BAU teat. So far it's been fun. :)
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 14:11:18



Whaaaat?

I thought everything was groovy now with the trillion euro bailout deal.. now they're out of money again already like two days later.. ? ? ?

Ok so if Greece takes a trillion euros for a patch-up, then what's Italy.. a gazillion trillion.. ?

Anyway, just as I predicted, China is tightening it's grip on Europe:



Bonsoir Europeans, say hello to your Chinese overlords..
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby oddone » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 15:48:01

They agreed to create the "financial stability facility", but the money to feed the fund had yet to be found.
And now it is realized that nobody, including the aliens, will bite :-D

See http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/1261173 ... -explained
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 16:43:10

Why Europe can't solve its debt crisis
Posted by Michael Schuman Monday, October 31, 2011 at 5:11 am
Image
Any hope that last Thursday's debt crisis agreement would finally quell the contagion raging through the euro zone was dashed almost before the ink dried. Only a day later, Italy's borrowing costs actually rose to a euro-era high in a bond auction, a clear sign that investors were far from certain that the debt deal was a game changer in Europe. The leaders of the euro zone appear to have botched yet another opportunity to convince the global investment community that they could tackle the crisis.

Why do Angela Merkel & Co. consistently disappoint? The reasons are many. They have repeatedly put their own domestic political concerns above the needs of the euro zone overall, leading to “historic” agreement that always fall short. They have shown a bewildering lack of urgency, stepping in too late with too little again and again. If the rich members of the zone are wary of committing their own money to support the euro, why should they expect private investors to do so? The debt burden of Greece, Italy and other euro zone countries is so huge, and the economic weaknesses of these nations so daunting, that it is simply impossible to address the problems in any reasonable period of time. But most of all, I fear the leaders of Europe are simply misunderstanding what is at the root of the crisis, and that faulty diagnosis is the reason why the medicines used are never a cure. Here's what I mean:

So far, Europe's approach to the crisis has been primarily a combination of three elements: (1) bailouts to provide liquidity and financing to debt-heavy governments and prevent a sovereign default; (2) austerity measures and, to a lesser extent, structural reform in the troubled economies: and (3) moderate reform to the way the monetary union functions, such as stiffer sanctions on those government that break debt limits and closer coordination of national fiscal policies. None of the measures taken to alleviate these three problems have ever been sufficient – the bailout fund has never been big enough, the reforms never extensive or credible enough, and the changes to the monetary union never strong enough. But beyond that, these issues are only part of the reason Europe is experiencing a debt crisis. The real causes are being ignored.

How's that? The bailout system is predicated on the belief that the debt crisis is first and foremost a liquidity crisis, that if the euro zone members put up enough cash to show they'll defend the euro, investors will feel better and the crisis will wind down. The austerity and reform programs have been mainly confined to the PIIGS – the economies in the crosshairs of investors – since the leaders of Europe seem to believe that only the weaker economies actually require reform. And the changes to strengthen the monetary union have mainly entailed the imposition of more rules, as if its flaws can be repaired by improving the way the existing structure functions.

All of these three assumptions are wrong.

The debt crisis in Europe has never been a liquidity crisis. That's why the bailouts have failed to stop it. Investors are fleeing the bonds of certain European countries because they believe their economies are fundamentally broken, simply uncompetitive compared to either stronger countries in Europe or up-and-coming emerging markets. That means investors don't have confidence in their long-term outlook, and thus their ability to handle their large debt loads. And the budget cutting and minor structural reform taking place isn't enough to change their downward course. The problem, in other words, is not concern over these countries' short-term ability to service their debt, but their long-term ability to prosper within the constraints imposed by the monetary union.

Nor is the difficulty in the euro zone limited to the weakest economies. Yes, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece and Ireland need to reform themselves. But that's only one side of the story. Massive imbalances between its members lie at the heart of the euro zone's problems. On the one hand, you've got uncompetitive economies like Spain and Portugal that have tumbled into large current account deficits; on the other, stronger economies, especially Germany, that gorge on giant current account surpluses. These imbalances are at the center of the debt crisis, but they aren't being treated that way. The euro zone's answer has been to force the uncompetitive economies to become more competitive, by reducing their real costs and wages. But that is a painful process, one that is potentially unsustainable either politically or socially. The real solution lies in zone-wide reform. Surplus nations also have to change, to stimulate domestic spending and import more from the rest of the region, which would help the weaker countries grow and stabilize their debt. Or the euro zone has to encourage these surpluses to be recycled into weaker economies – not through bailouts or handouts, but real investment that creates jobs and growth. None of that, however, is taking place in any serious way.

Lastly, the very structure of the euro zone is seriously flawed, and tweaking it isn't enough. No one believes that new rules and guidelines can be enforced, and no one believes they will be followed by governments will little history of doing so. The problem with the monetary union can be found in its decentralization. With no unified authority controlling fiscal policy overall, investors don't believe it can be controlled. The euro zone will be continually forced to adjust to the actions of its members, not the other way around, no matter what pacts are signed. And that decentralization presents a political hurdle as well. Though it is remarkable that 17 different nations with different interests can come together and reach agreement on anything – the mere two parties in Washington haven't been able to achieve the same degree of compromise – the fact remains that any one of the those 17 countries an upend any euro zone policy. We've already seen that happen, when Finland halted the process of forging a second bailout of Greece. That's why many economists believe the only answer to the euro zone debt crisis is more centralization – the often-mentioned fiscal union. But there is little evidence that the individual members of the euro zone will ever sacrifice the degree of sovereignty required to achieve such a union. Thus investors will remain unconvinced that any euro zone policies or programs can actually be effective.

So in the end, the root problem is that investors fear the euro simply can't survive. The worry is that the debt crisis will bring to its knees the European experiment in integration – not the other way around. To avoid that fate, the doctors of the euro zone have to write up the correct prescriptions. Otherwise, the disease will keep spreading.


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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Lore » Mon 31 Oct 2011, 17:20:00

Recompense for attempting to live like the home of the brave and the land of the indebted.
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby peripato » Tue 01 Nov 2011, 05:07:01

dolanbaker wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15526719
Greece will hold a referendum on a new European Union aid package intended to resolve the country's debt crisis, Prime Minister George Papandreou says.

Mr Papandreou said a vote of no-confidence would also be held on the deal - but no dates were set.

The package envisages losses of up to 50% for private holders of Greek debt and a new 100bn euro loan ($140bn).

There have been large-scale protests in Greece against the austerity measures introduced by the government.


That's it. Greece is going to default sooner rather than later, as nobody ever voted for austerity. The markets react appropriately.
Image

Merkozy must be furious as zombie euro-banks will take massive hits - far larger than purported 50% haircuts agreed to just a few days ago.
Image
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby dolanbaker » Tue 01 Nov 2011, 06:13:13

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europe-according

While we have shown this series of images by Bulgarian modern artist Yanko Tsvetkov previously, now that the question of European "unity" is more debatable than ever, and with a Greek referendum in effect guaranteeing the collapse of the Eurozone at least in its current framework, it makes sense to refresh on these pictures which straddle the thin line between reality and satire, which these days is one and the same. But no matter what, the important part is that everyone is hedged. Just ask MF Global... and MS.

Europe according to Greece:



Europe according to Germany:



Europe according to Italy:



Europe according to France:



Europe according to Spain:



Europe according to Switzerland:



Europe according to Britain:



Europe according to the US:



Europe according to Russia:



Europe according Poland:



Europe according Turkey:



Europe according to the Vatican:



and, as a special bonus, Europe according to Berlusconi:

Average:

Follow the link for the images http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europe-according
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Re: Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis Escalating

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Tue 01 Nov 2011, 06:53:10

peripato wrote:Merkozy must be furious as zombie euro-banks will take massive hits - far larger than purported 50% haircuts agreed to just a few days ago.


Time for another series of emergency Merkozy meetings ... as Greece considers whether it wants to pull an Icelandic-styled default:

Greece Sends Global Markets Into Tailspin Again: European CDS Spreads Demand Another Bailout

The futures are tumbling with U.S. futures falling in sympathy with plunge in European stocks; Italy’s FTSEMIB index down 5.3%, DAX down 4.4%, CAC down 4.3%, Spain’s Ibex down 4.1%, FTSE down 2.9%. But here is the true reason why Europe already needs another bailout, or the promises thereof, courtesy of those so vile CDS which no matter how hard it tries, Europe just can't kill:

Italy CDS Rise +53 bps to 495/505
France CDSs rise + 17 bps to 191/196
Spain CDSs rise + 41 bps to 375/385
Portugal CDSs rise 71 bps to 1,028 (update 1015/1055)

The reason? Why Greece of course: the same referendum decision that it took the market yesterday 45 minutes to process before the sell off began. From Bloomberg:

— Greece’s decision to call a referendum on its 5-day-old bailout blindsided its European partners and placed another hurdle in the way of efforts to staunch the debt crisis, German coalition lawmakers said.
— Referendum announcement came “out of the blue, it’s surprising, very risky,” said Norbert Barthle, the ranking member of Merkel’s CDU party on parliament’s budget committee
— “There’s an enormous amount at stake,’’ Barthle says; "We have a new unknown,” he says
— Sarkozy Is ‘Dismayed’ at Greek Referendum Plan, Le Monde Says

And the Greek reaction to the "stunning" announcement by G-Pap?

— Ex-Greek Minister Manos Says Vote May Trigger Default, Euro Exit
— Greek opposition leader might ask his entire Parliamentary group to resign, which would lead to elections
— Greece’s Samaras Says in Critical Times, Meets President
— Samaras Says Papandreou Has Placed Greek Place in Euro at Risk
— Greek Opposition leader Antonis Samaras speaks in Athens.
— Says elections are a national need, all must do their duty
— Says Papandreou has trying to save himself
— Greece’s Papandreou to Hold Meeting With His Ministers Today at 6 PM

And FTMFGlobalW, from Bloomberg: The European Union wasn’t informed in advance of Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou’s plans to seek a referendum on Europe’s bailout, an EU official said today in response to a question.

So much for the year end rally.
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