[Transportation] Motorcycles & scooters

[Loki]

I used to ride motorcycles years ago, and have been thinking about getting another one for a while now. Finally took the plunge last week. Picked up a 2005 Kawasaki KLR 250, got a real good deal from a private seller on Craigslist (he'd just been laid off). I'm extremely happy with it, handles great both on pavement and on logging roads, much better bike than the other ones in that price range. Even came with an awesome pink camo bag (any ideas on how to change the color would be most appreciated---spray paint? dye?):



The main reason I got it was pure fun, I'll be honest, but I'd like to think it has some role to play in my preps. Here's how I helped rationalize the purchase, which I paid for by selling a truck I hadn't driven in over a year, supplemented with an unexpected federal tax return:

--The bike should get 60+ mpg, which will reduce my vulnerability to spikes in gas prices---I also figure if I drive a motorcycle 50% of the time at my current rate (<4000 miles/yr), I'd save ~50 gallons of gas per year, reducing my transportation-related carbon footprint by 1/4 to 1/3 (eco-brownie points)

--I have a back up vehicle in case my 13-year-old little truck goes tits up (I also have a bicycle as a back up to my back up)---I'm not reliant on a vehicle to get to work, but I am reliant on it for grocery shopping and other errands

--Better ability to traverse rough terrain (I live in the country, it gets REAL muddy out here in the rainy season)

--Ability to explore surrounding mountains (lots and lots of logging roads around here), getting to know my area better in case I need to take to the mountains to fight off Cuban paratroopers (cheesy movie reference) or Malaysian pirates (cheesy book reference)

--Learn more mechanical skills, bikes are a lot easier to work on than cars---have already tensioned the chain and done some other minor work, plan on doing a full service over the next month or two---having decent mechanical skills is important for farmers

--It's a hard asset that can be bartered, I have very little faith in the future of the US dollar at this point

--If the S really hits the F, I can alway buy some leather chaps and join a Zombie Mutant Biker gang


The initial outlay is the primary cost of this little experiment, ongoing monthly costs are negligible ($99 for a full year of comprehensive insurance, more than offset by gas savings).

The main thing I'm worried about is safety, motorcycles aren't called “murdercycles” for nothing. A close relative of mine was killed on a motorcycle (hit by a drunk driver who ran a stop sign), so I'm not naive about the danger. I plan on taking a 3-day safety class as soon as possible, as it's been quite a few years since I've ridden. I'm not sure if the safety factor outweighs the other positive preparedness factors (and fun factor!)---if I had young kids it probably would, but I don't, so it doesn't

[John_A]

This deep into the collapse, doom and destruction that is our post peak world, why would you want something which runs on liquid fuels? Wouldn't one of those electric scooter type things be better? Without gasoline a KLR250 is just a bicycle with no pedals to move it and 295 pounds too much weight?

The fun part I understand, rock like it is 1999 until the roof caves in!

[vision-master]

It will be awhile before it get's that bad.

[John_A]

It will be awhile before it get's that bad.

They allow cornucopians on this website do they?

[steam_cannon]

This deep into the collapse, doom and destruction that is our post peak world, why would you want something which runs on liquid fuels? Wouldn't one of those electric scooter type things be better? Without gasoline a KLR250 is just a bicycle with no pedals to move it and 295 pounds too much weight?

The fun part I understand, rock like it is 1999 until the roof caves in!

Regarding motorcycles , motor bikes of all sizes have their uses. Small amounts of fuel will probably be available for a while. But even if there is no gas, the engine can come out of a motorcycle and they can still be used to transport goods like potatoes.


Regarding Motorbikes, I have a motorbike with a small engine. Small engines vehicles are more cost effective and much more powerful then electric. I use an engine like the red one below and electric has nothing on these engines.
$325 including shipping | 40cc | all-weather chain drive


$170 including shipping | 50cc | in-frame | all-weather chain drive


These are cheap easy to install engines that get around 160mpg, are good offroad, have lots of power and still work as a bicycle if you're out of gas.

[Loki]

My KLR 250 has performed quite well so far, put 30-40 miles on it since I got it last Tuesday. It's small, so definitely not for the interstate, highest speed so far has been 72 mph, but that's nearly maxing it out, and I doubt it could maintain that speed on an incline. I didn't feel comfortable running it that fast, felt unstable, but I haven't owned a motorcycle in many many moons, so my skills are pretty rusty.

It runs great on gravel roads, very stable. I have zero dirt bike experience, but feel plenty comfortable running the KLR on dirt roads. It's a bit heavy and sits taller than I'd like. Thinking about installing some lowering links, but need to read up on it more. But it's useable as it is, despite my short legs, seat height is ~33”, pretty low for dual sports I think.

Downloaded some manuals and and have been perusing them----the support for the KLR series is one reason I got this bike, there's loads of info on the web. Lots of stuff I want to do, starting with an oil change, a detailed inspection, and some preventative maintenance (replacement of hoses and the like). I think it'll be a great way to advance my general mechanical skills. Mechanical problems are a weekly occurrence at the little farm I work/live on, be nice to improve my ability to deal with them, not to mention that my old little truck that will undoubtedly need some work soon.

I think the KLR will be ideal for local trips and back roads. My main weekly trips are to the village 2 miles away, and a small town 5 miles away. The KLR will work great for both of these, and have already made the trips much more enjoyable. Also want to explore the local mountains and coast. Have gotten some good leads on logging roads to explore. Should be fun.

trolling

Meh.

[Auddy]

I recently started working for a company in Thailand that makes the world's only taxi meter for motorcycles. For reference, motorcycles are the world's most popular vehicle used in for hire transportation, with more than 20 million motorcycle taxis in use worldwide in over 130 countries. More than 1 billion people in the world regularly use motorcycle taxis.

Motorcycle taxis in most of the world are typically used as last mile feeder carriers, moving people between low density areas and public transit routes, enabling them to serve a greater number of people in low density suburbs. 80% of all trips taken are less than 5 miles, and so the taxis tend to hang around a specific local area either in a formal queue or using informal territory arrangements. Nearly all motorcycle taxis have an engine size of less than 200cc.

My question for the forum is if anyone believes these services could become ubiquitous in the states? Would any of you in the US use a motorcycle taxi if the option were available? I have noticed several people have complained about the safety aspects, fear of theft, and lack of M1 endorsement on their license. Except for safety, these are non issues for motorcycle taxis, and with regard to safety professional drivers tend to have fewer accidents than average. A typical taxi driver makes about 50 trips per day charging between $1 and $3 per trip depending on distance. Insurance requirements in the US may boost that cost slightly, but repair and maintenance on a motorcycle can typically be done by the operator except in extreme cases, and the low capital outlay means there is no need to carry crippling loans to get started.

I think motorcycle taxi services are ideal for the US as a low cost and immediately available post peak solution for increasing the efficiency of moving people from point A to point B. To date, we have only identified 2 motorcycle taxi services in the US, both in Southern California.

Is anyone familiar with any other motorcycle taxi services in the US? Does anyone believe the idea of motorcycle taxis in the states has merit, or are people generally too afraid?

Am I out of my mind to think that this idea could work in a post peak America? Any feedback on the idea is welcome. As an American expat I would like nothing more than to bring a useful idea back home.

[John_A]

My question for the forum is if anyone believes these services could become ubiquitous in the states?
Am I out of my mind to think that this idea could work in a post peak America?

The world peaked back in 2006 or so, so everything you, we, and everyone else in America and elsewhere does is currently a "post peak" lifestyle. And while I think your idea is a good one, if we can continue using cars for taxis in America, why would we even consider motorcycles? Don't think I'd let my kids ride motorcycles with their friends, let alone what might qualify as a "motorcycle taxi" driver in most places.

[Lore]

This deep into the collapse, doom and destruction that is our post peak world, why would you want something which runs on liquid fuels? Wouldn't one of those electric scooter type things be better? Without gasoline a KLR250 is just a bicycle with no pedals to move it and 295 pounds too much weight?

The fun part I understand, rock like it is 1999 until the roof caves in!

Most of our electric power is made from fossil fuels. What happens when that power turns off? You can always distill alcohol for a small combustion engine.

[John_A]

Most of our electric power is made from fossil fuels. What happens when that power turns off? You can always distill alcohol for a small combustion engine.

Electricity, from whatever source, is much more a sure thing than some random persons ability to make alcohol without blowing themselves up or burning down their house I bet.

[Lore]

The technology predates electrical power by a few millennium. Virtually anyone can build a still. There are very few people that could build an electrical generating system from scratch, let alone an efficient battery.

[John_A]

The technology predates electrical power by a few millennium. Virtually anyone can build a still.

True, but people from modern civilizations seem to have grown quite stupid as of late. Overspecialization perhaps?

There are very few people that could build an electrical generating system from scratch, let alone an efficient battery.

True. Fortunately, we have lots of infrastructure in place so it doesn't need built from scratch, and the people that aren't stupid are still around to maintain and build these things, and peak oil might make it difficult for them to use gasoline to get to work but it won't strike them stupid.

[Ferretlover]

I used to ride motorcycles years ago, and have been thinking about getting another one for a while now. Finally took the plunge last week. Picked up a 2005 Kawasaki KLR 250, got a real good deal from a private seller on Craigslist (he'd just been laid off). I'm extremely happy with it, handles great both on pavement and on logging roads, much better bike than the other ones in that price range. Even came with an awesome pink camo bag (any ideas on how to change the color would be most appreciated---spray paint? dye?): ...
The main thing I'm worried about is safety, motorcycles aren't called “murdercycles” for nothing. A close relative of mine was killed on a motorcycle (hit by a drunk driver who ran a stop sign), so I'm not naive about the danger. I plan on taking a 3-day safety class as soon as possible, as it's been quite a few years since I've ridden. I'm not sure if the safety factor outweighs the other positive preparedness factors (and fun factor!)---if I had young kids it probably would, but I don't, so it doesn't

You will get 60MPG without even trying, probably near 100 on an eco-run.

Having ridden bikes of all sizes/types and without a serious smash up in 30 years riding, I will give this advice on staying alive on a motorcycle:

The proper attitude is everything:
1/ treat every single vehicle on the road as an enemy or potential deadly enemy (paranoia mandatory)

2/ remember if you hit anything bigger than a mouse at speed, you are likely to come off (unfenced/ poorly fenced routes/ bush tracks/ suburban driveways can all suddenly have large animals appear)

3/ horses for courses, the right bike for the job (road bikes are nearly useless in wet mud/ dirt bikes are underpowered for highway driving, unless you go for a big Tenere or something, in which case fuel efficieny will be half what Loki's bike will get)

Always expect the absolute worst out of car drivers. Treat them all like they are drunk, stoned, half asleep and on the phone. Remember that if they kill you they will get away with it just by saying "I didn't see him!"

[eastbay]

Excellent choice, Loki! Mine is an '07 650cc XMoto BMW which, with off-road tires, will climb any kind of road imaginable (as I understand). I plan to keep it on blacktop for now (maybe forever) but if I choose, it can be converted to something comparable to yours with a (fairly) quick tire switch.

Off road potential is the only way to go!

[SeaGypsy]

Very worthwhile to have 2 or even 3 sets of tyres on rims, ready to go/ sprocket adjustment being an added bonus as you an have a small sprocket on the road wheel, medium on the cross trail and huge on your dirt pull/ hill climb/ plow puller wheel.

[Loki]

Auddy, I think motorcycle taxis may work quite well in some US cities. I lived in Portland, Oregon, for many years, there's at least one bicycle taxi service there. Not sure how popular or financially viable it is, their range must be pretty limited. I could definitely see a motorcycle taxi service working there, or even better, a moped taxi (Portland hipsters LOVE mopeds). Of course it wouldn't be all that popular during the rainy half of the year, it'd definitely be a seasonal gig.

I took a motorcycle taxi within minutes of stepping foot in Bali back in the 1990s. No helmet, a giant backpack strapped to my back, zipping through traffic in a very foreign country. The young kid driving laughed at me for how hard I held onto him. Maybe I'd have felt better if a Hindu priest blessed the motorcycle like the bus I took later on in my trip

For US motorcycle taxis you'd need to figure out the helmet situation, people have different sized heads, and you'd need to be able to sanitize the helmet between users. I have no idea what insurance would cost, but motorcycle insurance for private motorcyclists is dirt cheap here in the US. Many taxi users here have luggage, not sure how that would work. Maybe a sidecar? A sidecar would definitely add to the appeal, and you'd be able to haul 2 people, or 1 person and their stuff, if your bike was big enough.

It's not a bad idea, I think you could find a niche market in some US cities---maybe focus on the drunk Saturday night types?

[Loki]

Very worthwhile to have 2 or even 3 sets of tyres on rims, ready to go/ sprocket adjustment being an added bonus as you an have a small sprocket on the road wheel, medium on the cross trail and huge on your dirt pull/ hill climb/ plow puller wheel.

Thanks for the safety advice SeaGypsy, I'll definitely be a lot more paranoid about other drivers when I'm on my bike. The safety lit I've googled says turning drivers who "didn't see" the motorcycle are the main culprits. Exactly what happened when I got hit by a car while riding my bicycle back from work a couple years ago, an elderly driver who "didn't see me" smacked me broadside as she was turning.

Good idea about having a set of spare tires mounted. I have knobbies on there now, think road tires would make it any faster? It'll keep up on the state highways near where I live, but barely, and I hate to push the RPMs so high. Wouldn't dream of taking it on the interstate. It'll go 70 mph, but it's really pushing it and it doesn't feel stable at that speed.

[Loki]

Excellent choice, Loki! Mine is an '07 650cc XMoto BMW which, with off-road tires, will climb any kind of road imaginable (as I understand). I plan to keep it on blacktop for now (maybe forever) but if I choose, it can be converted to something comparable to yours with a (fairly) quick tire switch.

Off road potential is the only way to go!

Thanks Eastbay, I didn't even consider a road bike, I really wanted something that would handle logging roads w/o problem. So far I'm very happy with the KLR on gravel roads, feels extremely stable. Won't be doing much off-road per se, except to get around logging road gates.

I thought about getting a KLR 650, but the 250 came up on Craiglist at the right time and it was a deal I couldn't refuse. It's plenty heavy even though it's only a 250, not sure I could deal with a 650 in an off-road situation. Also wanted the best mpg I could get. A bit gutless for highway travel, though, which I expected. Better than the diesel VW Rabbit truck I used to own, though, that was truly a gutless wonder

[SeaGypsy]

Roughly 10% faster, up to 20% less fuel per mile/

[shaun64]

I've got a Kick scooter used mostly for tooling aimlessly around the local neighborhoods and gathering strange looks from coworkers. Kids kept suggesting tricks, so I learned to track stand on it. I've also been known to tool around work on a scavenged scooter with 12" tires.

Kick Scooter