THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 5 (merged)

[dohboi]

http://climateprogress.org/2011/03/17/status-of-japanese-reactors-spent-fuel-ponds-and-possible-outcomes/

[Ludi]

But they are doing better than when the humans were still there

Your argument seems to be "get rid of humans because animals will do better without them."

[Frank]

And there's absolutely no risk from burning coal to make electricity, is there?

[timmac]

Has this story been proven as fact, any other links to back this up.

[KevO]

more

Cover-up in Canada: Radioactive Leak Into Lake Ontario

With all the focus placed on the Japanese radiation leak as well as the toxic plume of radioactive particles (possibly containing uranium and plutonium) heading for the United States, another potential disaster is receiving virtually no attention.

Of course, attention should be paid to the Japanese situation. Especially since the mainstream media is doing everything it can to cover up the scale of the disaster. Nevertheless, it seems the continent of North America is being hit from two sides in terms of radiation danger.

On March 16, a report was released by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) stating that Canada’s Ontario Power Generation has released radioactive water into Lake Ontario via a leak in the Pickering A nuclear generating station.

As a result of what appears to be a pump seal failure, tens of thousands of litres of radioactive water escaped the generating station on Monday and ended up in Lake Ontario. This is concerning for a number of reasons, but it is especially concerning considering the fact that Lake Ontario is the main source of drinking water for millions of people.

Typically, the Canadian government is claiming that the water contamination is of little concern and that the citizenry should not be alarmed. In an official statement, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission claimed, “The radiological risk to the environment and people’s health is negligible.”

Likewise, Ontario Power Generation (OPG) and the Canadian government have been preferring to use the term “demineralized” water instead of “radioactive” water when discussing the leak. No doubt this is an attempt to hush concern over another radioactive accident amid anxiety over the “demineralized” catastrophe in Japan.

John Luxat, an “expert” on radiation from McMaster University claims the water that found its way into Lake Ontario Monday is actually not radioactive at all. In an interview with the CTV News Channel, Luxat stated, “It is not radioactive; it is not going through the reactors. It is actually just going through steam generators to produce steam to drive the turbines. It is used to remove heat from the heavy water going into the generators, but it doesn’t at any time go into the reactor.”

That sounds reassuring enough. However, it conflicts with a report (that was meant to be reassuring) from OPG itself. Also in the same interview with CTV News Channel, Ted Gruetzner of OPG said, “People are concerned about nuclear power, but this particular incident is normal water with a bit of radiation. It is well below our regulatory and other limits.”

Apparently, the nuclear industry was unable to get its story straight this time around. According to Mr. Luxat, there is no radiation involved with this water spill. But Mr. Gruetzner has admitted that there is. As an employee of OPG, it would not seem to be to his advantage to makes such an admission, so we can assume with great probability that there is, at the very least, some radiation now polluting Lake Ontario.

As Gordon Edwards, spokesperson for the Canadian Coalition for Nuclear Responsibility, stated, “That water came from the spent fuel bays right into Lake Ontario. The spent fuel bays in Japan are currently the source of some of the greatest radiation exposures. If there is an accident in Pickering, the fact that there is a direct pathway from the spent fuel bay into Lake Ontario should be quite alarming.”

Cause for great concern indeed. With two radiation-related accidents in only a few weeks, and a confirmed cover-up in both cases, one could almost begin to wonder if there is more to all this than meets the eye. Regardless, this new radioactive contamination should be watched closely and dealt with immediately.

Brandon Turbeville is an author out of Mullins, South Carolina. He has a Bachelor’s Degree from Francis Marion University where he earned the Pee Dee Electric Scholar’s Award as an undergraduate. He has had numerous articles published dealing with a wide variety of subjects including health, economics, and civil liberties. He is also the author of Codex Alimentarius – The End of Health Freedom

http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/491/646/Cover-up_in_Canada:_Radioactive_Leak_Into_Lake_Ontario.html

[smiley]

Your argument seems to be "get rid of humans because animals will do better without them."

If I were a frog that certainly would be my stance. It would beat being squashed between urban developments, becoming infertile from the anticonception washoff in the rivers, being slowly poisoned by pesticides and being served as delicacy by the French.

As a human I'm somewhat more moderate. But I do think this is a very bad idea. We are with far too many and leave far to little space for the environment to strike some sort of balance. That is going to haunt us some day if it isn't already.


But actually when I wrote this I had no argument, rather a thought.

Being environmentally contious or green is becoming fashionable these days. And nuclear energy usually is the number one item on their agenda. Yet when you are sincere, nuclear energy is by far not the worst we can do to this planet. We can make bees extinct with pesticides. We can create deserts were there were forests and we can create concrete jungles were there were real ones. We can even make the north pole dissappear with our emissions. And yet we rate nuclear energy so high. why?

When you peel off the layers of arguments I believe there is one that remains. Fear. We fear for our own lives, not so much for the environment. As dohboi eloquently illustrates:

shame for promoting this deadly technology as people are living in terror for their lives. I'm sure you accept zero responsibility for tragedies that arise from your lies and propaganda.

Humans of course have reason to fear nuclear energy. I will not dispute that. But it does make me wonder.

When we talk about "the environment" are we talking about the one where my imaginary frog lives, or are we talking about "our environment". How sincere are we about saving this planet?

[scas]

You know, if nuclear power meant an uncollapsed civilization and a slowdown of global climate change then i'd be willing to live next to a plant.

However there was one good point that nuclear might be added in addition to coal, and not displace it. But if we don't build them, then we are guaranteed not to come off coal, especially once we a scarce on resources and time. Kind of a lose-lose, and if we don't stop climate change then everyone loses, including 90+ % of species. So it's lose-lose-lose unless the world comes together to slow climate change, and even then it would need electricity for cities. If renewables can fill the gap, then great. No nukes.

The planet recovered from the P-T extinction. Only took 35 million years and it even set the course for an extremely intelligent ape. That doesn't justify what we're doing of course, but it shows that life may be more resilient than we think.

I almost didn't reply, but figure why let you get shredded alone?

[Ludi]

When we talk about "the environment" are we talking about the one where my imaginary frog lives, or are we talking about "our environment".

In my opinion, humans and frogs live in the same environment. Frogs are extremely helpful to humans in that they are so sensitive to toxins. Humans would benefit from striving to work with frogs to make a mutually beneficial environment. In my personal view, humans are part of nature and "the environment."

Some frogs I'm working with :

[SpringCreekFarm]

Well hey!!!

Ann Coulter says that radiation is actually good for you!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367698/Radiation-good-says-Ann-Coulter-weighs-Japans-nuclear-crisis.html

[Ludi]

Well hey!!! Ann Coulter says that radiation is actually good for you!

A little ultraviolet B radiation is good for you. But too much is not good for frogs or humans.

[scas]

Tim Flannery has noticed that frogs are being pushed up mountains as the temperatures warm. The Golden Toad was the first species to go due to global warming. Extinct as of 2004.

Beautiful species.

[Arthur75]

Frogs get 80% of their electricity from nuke plants, so I guess they are more or less ok with it, even though a lot of them are against it !

[bratticus]

Edwards said In his words, 'What the hell is considered negligible?'"

International Nuclear Event Scale
Via Wikipedia

... skip ...

Level 6: Serious accident

Impact on people and environment
Significant release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of planned countermeasures.

So to keep from having a level 6 incident don't do any planned countermeasures. We never planned those, they were spontaneous countermeasures, so it's not a level 6.

Level 5: Accident with wider consequences

Impact on people and environment
Limited release of radioactive ­material likely to require i­mplementation of some planned­ countermeasures.
Several deaths from ­radiation.

"Limited" is defined a "more radiation than was released".
"Several deaths" is defined as "more than the body count was". None of those deaths were due to radiation anyway.

See also

Event scale revised for further vagueness
TPTB / 06 October 2008

The International Nuclear Event Scale has been revised to increase the vagueness of reporting when things go wrong at nuclear facilities, ensuring the safety of those in charge of nuclear and radiological facilities and equipment.

If it was really revised for clarity it would include measurements and quantities not weasel wording.

[Pretorian]

Tim Flannery has noticed that frogs are being pushed up mountains as the temperatures warm. The Golden Toad was the first species to go due to global warming. Extinct as of 2004.

Beautiful species.

Global warming? Please. That toad is dead thanks to agricultural development of Costa Rica. Feeding the hungry, and all that. Land usage for pineapple production is 200 times more of what it was in 1966. You like pineapples don't you? Well there you go.

[americandream]

Tim Flannery has noticed that frogs are being pushed up mountains as the temperatures warm. The Golden Toad was the first species to go due to global warming. Extinct as of 2004.

Beautiful species.

Global warming? Please. That toad is dead thanks to agricultural development of Costa Rica. Feeding the hungry, and all that. Land usage for pineapple production is 200 times more of what it was in 1966. You like pineapples don't you? Well there you go.

The rot set in with those Reichean autobahns for all those Volkswagens for every Aryan worker. In the USSR, they instead got about by train or bike and ate locally.

[scas]

In the spring of 1987, an American biologist who had come to the cloud forest specifically to study the toads counted fifteen hundred of them in temporary breeding pools. That spring was unusually warm and dry and most of the pools evaporated before the tadpoles in them had time to mature. The following year, only one male was seen at what previously had been the major breeding site. Seven males and two females were seen at a second site a few miles away. The year after, only one male was found.. No golden toad has been seen since then. As late as 1994, five years after the last sighting, researchers still hoped that B. periglenes continued to live in underground burrows, as similar toad species have lifespans of up to twelve years.[4] By 2004 IUCN listed the species as extinct, after an evaluation involving Savage (who had first discovered them 38 years earlier). IUCN's extinction was based on the lack of sightings since 1989 and the "extensive search[ing]" that had been done since without result.[3] In August 2010 a search organised by the Amphibian Specialist Group of the International Union for Conservation of Nature set out to look for various species of frogs thought to be extinct in the wild, including the golden toad.[10]
Jennifer Neville has examined the different hypotheses explaining the extinction of the golden toad in her article "The Case of the Golden Toad: Weather Patterns Lead to Decline". Neville comes to the conclusion that Crump's El Niño hypothesis is "clearly support[ed]" by the available data.[4] IUCN gives numerous possible reasons in its description of the past threats to the species, including "[the golden toad's] restricted range, global warming, chytridiomycosis and airborne pollution".[3] Neville also mentions arguments that an increase in UV-B radiation, fungus or parasites, or lowered pH levels contributed to the Golden Toad's extirpation.[4]
A more recent study confirms the El Niño hypothesis, in which it is stated that "The new study finds that Monteverde was the driest it’s been in a hundred years following the 1986-1987 El Niño, but that those dry conditions were still within the range of normal climate variability". The new study has shown that the Chytrid Fungus has spread due to the dry conditions caused by El Niño. [11]

Multiple reasons for its extinction, seems AGW did the final blow.

[Pretorian]

The rot set in with those Reichean autobahns for all those Volkswagens for every Aryan worker. In the USSR, they instead got about by train or bike and ate locally.

And that was because they wanted to get by like that , not because their party leaders wanted to bathe in caviar with underaged komsomolkas and stock up on tanks and nukes. Neverthless some of the rich, but politically incorrect citizens did apply to get in line to wait 8-10-15 years for the right to buy an ungodly in its ugliness copy of an old Fiat or something like that. Hear, hear.

[Ferretlover]

In the spring of 1987, an American biologist who had come to the cloud forest specifically to study the toads counted fifteen hundred of them in temporary breeding pools. Text deleted. The new study has shown that the Chytrid Fungus has spread due to the dry conditions caused by El Niño. [11]

Multiple reasons for its extinction, seems AGW did the final blow.

the reason is one and only--humanity

[GASMON]

Frogs get 80% of their electricity from nuke plants, so I guess they are more or less ok with it, even though a lot of them are against it !

You beat me to it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not only that, the frogs export electricity to the UK. Most of Londons electricity is frog nuke generated.

Look at this, to the right under system transfers. national grid

Any electricity consuming Londoner against nuclear power is a hypocrite.

Gas

[sparky]

.
1000MW , that's equivalent to a biggish coal power station
The site even got information in Welsh