THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread (merged)

[Pretorian]

Who said so? They lived without eletricity sonce the beginning of time. What makes them so much better or needy than all generations that had ever lived?

[Starvid]

as life diversity is very limited, not the case flor sub-tropic/tropic regions

What is that even supposed to mean?

Small-scale hydroelectric has fewer side-effects. Local power generation using small turbines should be less damaging. Avoiding building large dams would be a good idea. They've thoroughly proven themselves to be a bad idea in the long run.

I love small hydro, totally cool, great for creating income in sparsely populated areas and the countryside, great for financing reconstruction of culturally important mills, but pretty useless from a power generation perspective. The vast majority of the water is in the big rivers. The 63 % of our hydroplants that are the smallest produce less than 3 % of our power, or about 5 % of our hydropower. We could remove two thirds of our dams and just lose one hydro kWh in twenty. Not that I think we should do it, but people must face the facts: hydro that makes a difference is big hydro.

And big hydro has proved itself to be a great idea, if it's done right. No source of energy is good if it's done wrong.

[Pretorian]

It supposed to mean that there are less species in the North where Sweden is at than in subtropical or tropical regions. I've heard that you guys are a bit frozen overthere but didnt think it was that bad.

[Starvid]

I can assure you there are plenty of plants and animals in Sweden.

[DefiledEngine]

I can assure you there are plenty of plants and animals in Sweden.

Yeah, tons of birch... spruce, pine, herring, cod and warthogs. And some more spruce.

[Tyler_JC]

Does it matter how many trees are in Sweden? This thread is supposed to be about coal plants being more radioactive than nuclear power plants.

Attention...Deficit...Disorder...

[Phildo]

Thread drift as A.D.D.? Suppose it sort of is.

But back on topic. Yeah Coal has nasties, as do Nukes. So far I still work Coal plants. I have No-Goed Nukes.

Not that I consider Coal a good thing. I do not. Would just as soon it were left in the ground, along with the Oil and the Uranium. Sort of figured -- God or Earth or Nature or however one wishes to view these things -- kind of knew what they were doing when they buried those things to keep us and the critters safe from it. And us knuckleheads just seem compelled to go dig the crap up and burn and toss it into the air.

With all that disclaimer out of the way . . . I am inclined to go back against a basic but unstated premise of this thread -- that there is some forced choice between Coal v. Nukes. There is some philosophy that I cannot properly source that says something like:

Between two Evils -- Choose Neither.
So applying that looks like Choosing Neither Coal nor Nukes. And in the interest of completeness, there is a second part:
Between two Goods -- choose Both.

We have plenty of good choices. There is Power Down -- (yeah it is a choice), there is Solar Thermal (my present favorite), there is various Wind, there is Geo-Thermal, on and on.

I guess I am trying to say do not get caught between two bad choices. We can re-write the equation and create answers that are better for everyone.

How's THAT for creating A.D.D. / Thread Drift?

[eXpat]

Tasty water!
Tainted nuke plant water reaches major NJ aquifer

LACEY TOWNSHIP, N.J. - Radioactive water that leaked from the nation's oldest nuclear power plant has now reached a major underground aquifer that supplies drinking water to much of southern New Jersey, the state's environmental chief said Friday.

The state Department of Environmental Protection has ordered the Oyster Creek Nuclear Generating Station to halt the spread of contaminated water underground, even as it said there was no imminent threat to drinking water supplies.

The department launched a new investigation Friday into the April 2009 spill and said the actions of plant owner Exelon Corp. have not been sufficient to contain water contaminated with tritium.
Tritium is found naturally in tiny amounts and is a product of nuclear fission. It has been linked to cancer if ingested, inhaled or absorbed through the skin in large amounts.

"There is a problem here," said environmental Commissioner Bob Martin. "I am worried about the continuing spread of the tritium into the groundwater and its gradual moving toward wells in the area. This is not something that can wait. That would be unacceptable."

The tritium leaked from underground pipes at the plant on April 9, 2009, and has been slowly spreading underground at 1 to 3 feet a day. At the current rate, it would be 14 or 15 years before the tainted water reaches the nearest private or commercial drinking water wells about two miles away.

But the mere fact that the radioactive water — at concentrations 50 times higher than those allowed by law — has reached southern New Jersey's main source of drinking water calls for urgent action, Martin said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37022728/ns/us_news-environment/

[Keith_McClary]

With tritium's half life of 12 years it will take a century to reduce 50x.

[Ferretlover]

Up from initial reports of three people.

At least 15 Japanese hospitalized with radiation poisoning
MOSCOW, March 13 (RIA Novosti)
At least 15 people have been admitted to hospital with symptoms of radiation poisoning following an accident at Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant, the Kyodo news agency said on Sunday.

[bratticus]

Telegraph Live blog
21.28 According to Japanese officials, 22 people have been confirmed to have suffered radiation contamination while up to 190 may have been exposed. No health problems have been detected, with experts claiming as long as the radiation stays on the surface of the clothing or skin, there will be no health risk.

[Ferretlover]

View map and timescale at http://www.rense.com/general93/fef.htm
also

Extensive damage: Experts are now debating whether a radiation cloud could reach the West Coast

meltdown

[Sixstrings]

Japan's nightmare gets even WORSE: All THREE damaged nuclear reactors now in 'meltdown' at tsunami-hit power station

Well that's the nightmare scenario isn't it.. all three rectors in meltdown, and a radiation tsunami on the way..

On the other hand, I'm getting tired of reading these articles and trying to parse out whether to worry or not. First they show this map:


Consequences of meltdown: this graphic shows how a full-scale meltdown could affect the United States

But then the last paragraph of the article says don't worry:

Unlike Chernobyl, there is no chance that this could become an international incident; Japan is simply too far away from anywhere else for the radiation to spread, and the most serious radioactive contaminant – Iodine-131 – has a half-life of just eight days. Furthermore, the Japanese government is rich, competent and open – which the Soviet authorities in 1986 conspicuously were not.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365781/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-All-3-Fukushima-nuclear-plant-reactors-meltdown.html

So which is it.. fallout can hit the US, or US is too far away.. both statements right there in the same article.

If I had to guess at this point I'd say this is mostly a problem for the Japanese. If any fallout reaches us, we'll never know about it just some folks will be coming down with cancer in 15 years and never know it was from this.

[KevO]

If I had to guess at this point I'd say this is mostly a problem for the Japanese. If any fallout reaches us, we'll never know about it just some folks will be coming down with cancer in 15 years and never know it was from this.

I think you will thanks to the internet but it may be a bit late in coming from the 'mainstream'
If I lived in the west US, I'd be doing some serious net surfing for a couple of days to gauge what is happening and then, if it looks bad, I would panic buy food and fuel and then pack up and move east. If one has a family that is a duty.
Of course if it does hit the US west coast in any measure, it will spread across the whole US and a couple of weeks later, thanks to the jet stream, arrive in the UK - so I'll be watching this also and if I have to I will pack up my family and get into Southern Spain for the summer.
Americans would do well to get into southern Mexico

[TheDude]

Or not: Radiation from Japan not likely to harm North - Wunder Blog ...

Some of the plumes move over eastern Siberia, Alaska, Canada, the U.S., and Mexico in 5 - 7 days. Such a long time spent over water will mean that the vast majority of the radioactive particles will settle out of the atmosphere or get caught up in precipitation and rained out. It is highly unlikely that any radiation capable of causing harm to people will be left in atmosphere after seven days and 2000+ miles of travel distance. Even the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, which had a far more serious release of radioactivity, was unable to spread significant contamination more than about 1000 miles.

Jeff will have another post later today. He knows his stuff.

AdvancedNano provides a handy Radiation Chart. Living on the Colorado Plateau is worse for you than having a chest X-Ray.

Meanwhile we can be continue to be poisoned with homebrew toxins of all sorts: MODFLOW in action at a Superfund Site in California | GroundwaterGo Blog

Right next door, the Montrose Chemical Plant manufactured chemical products from 1947 to 1983, including DDT pesticide. Soils and groundwater in the vicinity are contaminated with DDT and the plant discharged DDT-laced waste water to local sewers, contaminating drainage channels and ocean sediments.2

Beneath these two facilities, soil and groundwater are polluted with industrial by-products, including chlorobenzene, DDT, parachlorobenzene sulfonic acid, benzene, ethylbenzene, naphthalene, trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene, and dichloroethylene. These substances are present beneath the facility as non-aqueous phase liquids (NAPL), dissolved in groundwater, and adsorbed to soils, and, if left untreated, these pollutants could pose a possible threat to the public.

But they're our poisons! USA #1! Well, sort of. YT: China Celebrates Status As Number One Polluter.

[KevO]

a new and updated map from Reuters at
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[ColossalContrarian]

Jeff will have another post later today. He knows his stuff.

AdvancedNano provides a handy Radiation Chart. Living on the Colorado Plateau is worse for you than having a chest X-Ray.
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I think this is over played. I live in Denver and have a cabin at 9500' so I should be glowing and dead per the MSM and other sources. It's estimated I get 6000(whatever? per year) so when people tell me things like 30+(whatever's), I'm thinking I get 60+ per day and these people are scared. Sure I could be fuct but not as bad as people make it out to be.

[Lore]

Equal to 2 min. of sunshine on the West Coast.

[TheDude]

At least you're not an AirlinePilot.

[dukey]

they are really down playing the catastrophe. This might be one of the greatest disasters ever in the history of man kind.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima ... d=13141287