Natural Gas Vehicles

[sparky]

.
Gas fuelled vehicles have a long and distinguished history ,
like batteries operated industrial vehicle , they have been around for decades
and are competitive in some applications less in others
gas operated vehicles have some great advantages

-the tech is mature and proven ,

-distribution infrastructures and fleet can be retrofitted at a trivial cost

-the performances are acceptable globally and even superior for some
( better cold start , less hostile on the lubricants much less pollution )

-a wide variety of sources can be used including renewable ones

It certainly the most attractive option after petrol or diesel

[TheDude]

Here's a video I found of a guy filling up his Civic GX at a CNG station in Oklahoma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RycTyw6VDNs

It's just like filling your car up with gasoline!

You new around here?



EIA has obfuscated their AFV data; used to able to click and straightaway see how much CNG or E85 cars were in use in the 90s. For CNG it wobbled around a lot, like it was a fad with fleets that came and went upon whim of budget or mandate.

IANGV says US CNGs are flat at 110k for 2009; so much for your Plan, Pickens. At 0.06% of total fleet US is #41 worldwide for adopting CNG.

They're nuts about it in Pakistan, 60.50% of fleet for 2009, although that's the 2009 number for CNG vehicles divided by the 2005 number for fleet size, thus a bit misleading. 2005-2009 they were consuming oil thus: 336.19 357.08 377 396 373.27. Gas+Dist = ca. 36 kb/d. Real earthshaking stuff here.

[sparky]

.
beside moving fat butts in commuter cars , transport also has some use in the real world
gas can do it ,no others

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... DD0021DF1E

[JRP3]

How much energy is required to pressurize and cool NG into LNG?

[sparky]

.
well there is the compression and then there is the refrigeration plant , over all probably 500Kw
for 60 T per day , or about 1.3 bucks per tonne

rough estimate

[kildred590]

the tech is mature and proven ,

? So is steam power.

distribution infrastructures and fleet can be retrofitted at a trivial cost

Affordable cost, yes, but certainly not trivial.

-the performances are acceptable globally and even superior for some
( better cold start , less hostile on the lubricants much less pollution )

Performance is considerably worse than diesel.
As is the lifespan of the injectors, since diesel is partially lubricating.

a wide variety of sources can be used including renewable ones

But they're all very expensive (the renewable type).

t certainly the most attractive option after petrol or diesel

Nah, LPG is. It doesn't require anywhere near as much compression and is a lot more efficient.

The cost of running a fleet of trucks on CNG instead of diesel is substantial. It's like more than twice as expensive. The cost of oil would have to rise a great deal to make it feasible, and the economy would be shattered long before you recahed that point.

[sparky]

.

You are right about LPG being even better
I somehow confused the two

[TimH]

I'm wondering why UPS would go the LNG way? I mean if it cost more to run their trucks on LNG then of course the bottom line is effected.The article implies UPS is going with LNG for environmental reasons but still a business such as UPS that uses so much fuel, this would seem to be to big an expense.What am I missing?

http://tinyurl.com/48bsyhv

[Keith_McClary]

Greenest Vehicles of 2011 - REVISED 2/16/12 (sic)
#1 is: HONDA CIVIC GX c 1.8L 4, auto [CNG]

[JRP3]

Greenest Vehicles of 2011 - REVISED 2/16/12 (sic)
#1 is: HONDA CIVIC GX c 1.8L 4, auto [CNG]

Same score as the LEAF on the grid average, if NG were used in generating plants to replace coal plants the LEAF would win.

[Ludi]

Same score as the LEAF on the grid average, if NG were used in generating plants to replace coal plants the LEAF would win.

"And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon."

[JRP3]

Er, no, she'd still be your grandmother, with a set of wheels. The point was that burning NG in a generating plant is more efficient than burning it in inefficient ICE's. Places like the UK with a lower percentage of coal use would probably have the LEAF at the top of that list.

[OilFinder2]

LINK

Westport signs agreement with GM to develop natural gas engines
ABR Staff Writer
Published 29 June 2011

Westport Innovations, a provider of alternative fuel, low-emissions transportation technologies, has signed an agreement with General Motors (GM) to develop advanced natural gas engine controls, emissions and performance strategies for light-duty vehicles.

Westport is planning to open a new technical center in Michigan, US the company currently employs 15 people in Farmington Hills, Michigan, and plans to add more people and invest in facilities as demand for natural gas-powered, alternative-fuel vehicles.

Westport president of light-duty division Ian Scott said the company is excited to work with GM and invest in advanced natural gas technology for the automotive market.

[...]

[pstarr]

LINK

Westport signs agreement with GM to develop natural gas engines
ABR Staff Writer
Published 29 June 2011

Westport Innovations, a provider of alternative fuel, low-emissions transportation technologies, has signed an agreement with General Motors (GM) to develop advanced natural gas engine controls, emissions and performance strategies for light-duty vehicles.

Westport is planning to open a new technical center in Michigan, US the company currently employs 15 people in Farmington Hills, Michigan, and plans to add more people and invest in facilities as demand for natural gas-powered, alternative-fuel vehicles.

Westport president of light-duty division Ian Scott said the company is excited to work with GM and invest in advanced natural gas technology for the automotive market.

[...]

What a joke. No one needs to develop a natural gas engine. Same ICE, different timing. The issue is not the mechanics of the power train, the real problem is the impossibility of delivering a gas to places that don't have natural gas pipelines. Like interstates, farms, timberlands, mine sites, container ships. The real issue is compressing decompressing and recompressing a gas. EROEI. Do you know what that is, Oily?

God! Stop your obfuscation, already.

[TheAntiDoomer]

and these are just the main lines, there are literally thousands of smaller arteries going to just about every town i america, what is the problem again?

[pstarr]

what is the problem again?

south dakota and Oregon and anyplace a natural gas car can't drive to. Can you imagine renting a car at the Vegas Airport and told you must stay in Vegas

[TheAntiDoomer]

what is the problem again?

south dakota and Oregon and anyplace a natural gas car can't drive to. Can you imagine renting a car at the Vegas Airport and told you must stay in Vegas

HUH?

1) For Vegas I'd imagine most folks are staying within the 200-300 or more range of the nat gas vehicle.
2) They could still rent gasoline cars for those willing to pay the premium for gasoline
3) Natural gas pipelines will naturally be extended to those areas with demand.

I'm shocked at your poor rebuttal

[pstarr]

what is the problem again?

south dakota and Oregon and anyplace a natural gas car can't drive to. Can you imagine renting a car at the Vegas Airport and told you must stay in Vegas

HUH?

1) For Vegas I'd imagine most folks are staying within the 200-300 or more range of the nat gas vehicle.
2) They could still rent gasoline cars for those willing to pay the premium for gasoline
3) Natural gas pipelines will naturally be extended to those areas with demand.

I'm shocked at your poor rebuttal

Dude you are dreaming. Denial has clouded your vision. You might as well have cataracts.

We can't afford to maintain the current pipeline infrastructure. It's slowing rusting and collapsing and you expect to cover vast swatches of the US with additional pipelines?

Do you have any idea what it cost to bury a high pressure NG line? Here are some prelims for you: assuming $10 per-inch-diameter per-foot length, 12" delivery line, 1,000 miles for Interstate route 80 where it crosses the great plains and rocky mts. Almost $1 billion just to lay the line. How about shutoff valves, re-compressors, service/maintenance stations, safety equipment, etc. Do you have any idea?

You going to put up the money? Then who is? The Donald perhaps?

[John_A]

and these are just the main lines, there are literally thousands of smaller arteries going to just about every town i america, what is the problem again?

Holy Cow! I never realized that natural gas lines reached so many places around the country. Combined with the newly discovered natural gas volumes everyone is talking about:

http://www.sungazette.com/page/content. ... l?nav=5011

we might be looking at traffic jams quite a bit further into the future than most of us would like.

[pstarr]

Holy Cow!

Whatever floats your boat.