Parenting in a Peak Oil World pt 2 (merged)

[Outcast_Searcher]

Here you are:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12130140
Very interesting (and responsible) move by Chinese authorities.

Yes, with a stroke of a pen, the ever-present state, once again magically "fixes" things.

China is reaping the demographic reward of their one-child limit policy. So now they dump the problem on the kids.

While this sounds marvelous in theory, there are certain real-world issues) - I know, because I did 99% of the caretaking for both of my parents for years.

Just to name some examples of potential issues off the top of my head:
What if the child is psychologically screwed up because they were mistreated by thier parents? (In the extreme case of this - what if they are in prison?) What if their child is an invalid? What if they have to work far away? What if they are poor and have to work too much to have time / energy to provide care?) What if the child lacks sufficient education to competently provide care?

I know it's hard for those who love big government to grasp this - but just throwing more ink at paper to produce more laws stating "You must do X" does NOT mean problems magically get solved.

And, just in principle, this is really laughable when, as others have said - you often can't even get parents to provide decent care for kids.

[Tyler_JC]

The Soviet Union commanded that the peasantry produce more grain every year. Somehow those commands didn't turn into more sacks of wheat...

Just because the government demands that something happen, does not mean it will happen.

O_S is absolutely right. The Chinese government does not have the power to create elder care services just by demanding that they be provided. The inevitable crisis caused by the one-child policy is still right on track.

[Serial_Worrier]

Doesn't every corporation make unreasonable demands of their workers? They only difference is that theoretically if a worker feels that their corporation is treating them unjustly they can look for another job. Theoretically speaking of course.

[Keith_McClary]

Here you are:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12130140
Very interesting (and responsible) move by Chinese authorities.

I heard on CBC radio today we have this in 9 of 10 provinces. You can sue your kids!

It was pointed out that this is the same principle as in divorces.

Anyone know the situation in other countries? I can't think of search terms.

(I've also heard in some countries (Germany) you are responsible to support your kiddies through their education, up to Ph.D., age ~30)

[EnergyUnlimited]

O_S is absolutely right. The Chinese government does not have the power to create elder care services just by demanding that they be provided. The inevitable crisis caused by the one-child policy is still right on track.

It will not solve 100% of trouble, but it may solve 30-60% of trouble.
Still worth trying.

(I've also heard in some countries (Germany) you are responsible to support your kiddies through their education, up to Ph.D., age ~30)

That's fine.
As long as kids understand that they will have to pay your maintenance from 60 to 90.
Pension systems are on their's last leg...

PS.
In Poland you can sue working kids for maintenance but it is rarely practiced.

[KirstenM]

Hi Everyone.

I've just joined the forum, and I'm wondering how other parents out there are incorporating planning for the future into your parenting?

Do you feel like the school your child or children go to (if they do to one) is giving them adequate preparation for an adulthood in a world that is likely to be quite different to the one they are growing up in, and if not, what are you doing to fill the gaps?

BTW, please don't bring up over-population and avoiding children in the first place. I've seen there are already threads that end up in that area, but I am assuming that there are plenty of people who already have children (like me), and are thinking about how to prepare them. Do feel free to jump in if you don't have children but feel you can be part of a constructive conversation though.

Thanks
Kirsten

[Pops]

Hi Kirsten, thanks for writing.

I think the best idea for kids is the same as the best idea for adults; don't specialize. And the most important single thing you can teach your kids is to love to read and be inquisitive.

I'm not ready to say they should be treated like John Conner, LOL, because we don't know what the robot monster of the future will actually look like, it could be a "1984" world, but it could be a "Little House" world, a Jetsons' world.. So expose them to every experience you can afford - not Six Flags but the discovery center, the science museum, the farm exhibit, nature, city, country, wilderness. if you know what I mean.

And my one best bit of advice, make a Saturday trip to the library every week, make it a dress up occasion and maybe stop at an antique store and talk about old stuff on the way home or the art museum and then to the ice cream shop! I did that with all my kids and grandkids and although they are all over the spectrum as far as school goes, they all have excellent reading and comprehension skills and even read for pleasure if you can believe it!


I hope you hang out, at one point we had quite a few women members but not so much lately.

[Quinny]

Same + have fun in the wild. Swim in lakes, rivers and sea (& canal). Camp out. Light fires, build gang huts and tree houses. Play at identifying trees and mushrooms and plants and animal tracks. Go fishing on sea lake and river. Teach them to row. Get them helping in garden and round the house. Let them listen to music lots of kinds things they like and those they don't. Encourage them to learn to play music or sing. Play at basket weaving and other crafts. Then try some other stuff for a change. Go horse riding. Play rounders for fun. Cook wild foods.

It might sound like a lot, but it's actually what I've done with my kids in the last week. We had four days away and it was great.

[DarkDawg]

Good stuff Pops and Quinny! For our family the number one goal is healthy eating. We have committed to feeding the kids whole foods and getting them used to the taste of real food, beans, nuts and all kinds of whole grains, fruits and vegetables. If they grow up with junk food and processed food and all the other crap peddled in fast food places they will never acquire a taste for real food (well i shouldn't say "never" but it will be a harder sell).

Secondly, get them involved in producing what they eat, from the garden to the plate. Or even when you go shopping with them and you are in that tempting cereal aisle give them a challenge, "find me a box with less than 10 grams of sugar." It may surprise you that they will find something they like - small steps really - but valuable lessons for them to learn for when they will need to fend for themselves.

We hope that by feeding their bodies well, they will also be able to feed their minds well.

Hope this helps, and welcome!

[davep]

For me I think I should insure us against the future as far as possibe. So the doomstead will hopefully be there if required.

But I've let my daughter express herself, as she has the creativity from her mother's side of the family. She is excellent on the violin, is good on the piano and is already trilingual (plus another two on the go).

She's just entering her last year of lycée and I'm perfectly happy for her to go to a university for photographers, film directors, sculptors etc. After the first year she can choose her speciality.

Even after the peak we will still need inspired young artistic talent. And I won't do anything to stop my daughter having the chance of doing something she loves. She will always have the backup of the doomstead though.

[davep]

As for eating well, my daughter lives on a mainly mediterrainean diet and some of her friends have accused her of being anorexic. Yes, even in France kids are starting to grow up way too fat.

BTW, she's extremely strong and eats like a horse.

[Quinny]

On my latest trip to France it was noticeable that French teens tended to be less obese than in UK though.

[monsta666]

Don't have kids but wish to have them soon. I would say what is important is a well-grounded education which is complemented with a range of practical hands on skills. An appreciation of nature and where food comes from is important as well a being well versed in critical thinking.

Critical thinking can easily be encouraged by indulging a child's nature inquisitive questioning nature. Teach them not to be satisfied with an answer unless they can truly understand why it is so and let them also understand the concept that adults (particularly experts) can be less knowledgeable than they let on. Also let them know that news or any other source of information can be subject to bias and tell them to be vigilant to these signs or at least question what could motivate the speaker to say the things they say. Granted, some of this topic maybe a touch advanced for a young child and can be explored a little later but I would contend that children are often more clever than we give them credit for. So it is something that can be brought up surprisingly early this is especially true if you are blessed with intelligent/wise children.

Another important thing is promoting the ideas of friendship, family, loyalty and general cooperation. If we are to become materially poorer in the future then our relationships with family, friends and the greater community will be more important than ever. Social skills should be developed at an early age but above all good ethical behaviour is something that must be given a stronger priority than normal given the future we face. Good luck and all the best.

[Ibon]

Don't hesitate to be ruthlessly honest with them starting around middle school age about the nature of the challenges awaiting us in the 21st Century.

Children have a very healthy sense of survival and they can handle the hard edges of reality far better than adults actually from my experience.

In being honest about the challenges of the times one has to emphasize the opportunities that this presents for those prepared.

My two daughters would roll their eyes as teenagers every time I brought up the same old Peak Oil and related topics.

A few years later I realized they internalized far more than their rolling eyes would have indicated

As a parent you have a profound influence. Use it.

[SeaGypsy]

I think us who have got a grasp on something of what to expect this century have a pretty serious advantage as parents; at least in comparison to MSM diet variety breeders. It's pretty important to have a mature and open view. I would not want my kids thinking I am babbling negative doomerism. It seems a fine line we have to walk, with awareness of the bigger issues, balanced against the drive for personal success we all want to see in our kids. Flexibility is key. being able to enjoy simplicity will likely become a very important factor in mental health in the next decades. Making room for striving is equally important if you don't want your kids to be socially retarded.