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Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 22 Aug 2010, 19:07:06

This story in the local press.
http://www.timesargus.com/article/20100 ... 003/NEWS02
Plant closes as soon as tax breaks and credits dry up. Big surprize. :roll:


By Louis Porter
Vermont Press Bureau - Published: August 21, 2010


MONTPELIER – A Swanton plant once promoted as the largest biodiesel production facility in New England is shuttered and unlikely to reopen, at least in the short-term, according to state and company officials.

The state’s economic development authority is now in the process of trying to recover more than a half-million dollars it provided to the facility in low-interest loans, according to officials. State tax credits were also awarded to the company that built the plant, Biocardel, a subsidiary of a Canadian company, although the credits were never used.

The expiration of a federal tax credit for the production of biofuels at the end of 2009 has hammered the industry nationally and the Biocardel facility in Vermont is one casualty. The company does not have plans to reopen the facility.

Jo Bradley of the Vermont Economic Development Authority said that the plant has closed.

“We are trying to negotiate some kind of settlement for the balance of our loan,” she said. “When the federal credits were not renewed it was a blow to the industry as a whole. It made it much more difficult for them to survive.”

Stephen Daigle, who was the general manager of the Vermont plant, said Friday it was frustrating to see the plant just get to the verge of ramping up production last December after nearly two years of preparing and research and development, only to have the tax credits expire and Congress fail to restore them in the months since.

“People tried to help us as much as possible,” Daigle said. “It’s sad because I think Vermont as a green state would have supported it very well.”

VEDA gave the company $645,000 in low-interest loans in 2006. The authority is now working to recover the money, which was secured with the assets of the company, Bradley said. How long that recovery will take is not clear.

“It is always hard to tell with these things,” Bradley said. “We will work with people as long as we can to get the maximum out of the collateral.”

The state also gave tax credits potentially worth $534,522 the company could have used to offset expenditures in payroll and capital investments between 2006 and 2010. However, since the firm never did all of the hiring and other requirements to receive those credits, nothing was collected in the end, said Fred Kenney, of the Vermont Economic Progress Council.

Nothing related to the company has been filed in bankruptcy court in Vermont.

The Biocardel facility, in a former Agway plant in Swanton, was slated to eventually produce as much as eight million gallons of biodiesel a year. The now-expired federal tax credit effectively gave companies $1 a gallon in tax breaks to make the production of the alternative fuel – made from soybean oil, waste cooking oil or other vegetable oils – economically viable.

The Biocardel facility began limited production last fall, made about seven trucks which each hold 6,000 gallons overall, Daigle said. For logistical reasons that fuel was apparently all sold outside Vermont. In December the firm, which employed three, began hiring to expand its operation.

However uncertainty about the fate of the tax credits prompted a delay, which proved prudent once the credits expired. The firm tried to wait out the problem – hoping for a return of the credits – but investors simply ran out of money and after working with Biocardel, VEDA began recalling the loans a few weeks ago, he said.

The timing of the end of the federal tax credits, effectively a third of the company’s revenue, “could not have been any worse,” Daigle said. “We have done everything we could to try and keep the plant alive.”
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby Oakley » Sun 22 Aug 2010, 21:19:02

I think this serves as an example of what happens when government attempts to manage the market place. No sane businessman would have made this investment, but the government encouraged them to do so with subsidies. And now precious resources have been squandered because of government intervention.

If you successfully call for more government efforts to solve the energy problem, then we face an even more dismal future that is already in the cards. The death rate will be high from insufficient energy, but even higher if resources are squandered at the direction of bureaucrats and politicians in an attempt to maintain the status quo. The best government can do is get out of the way of people dealing with this disaster in their own ways.

And what should already be obvious to everyone, government and big business have colluded to bring us a system of fascism which controls the market place in favor of the few at the expense of the many. Carrying centralized government and big business on our backs will soon become intolerable and I think civil war / revolution will result. Centralized government is no longer workable and we need to revert to localization in not only food production, and industry, but also government. In my vies, this is the direction the forces of nature will drive us.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 23 Aug 2010, 16:15:05

Oakley wrote:And what should already be obvious to everyone, government and big business have colluded to bring us a system of fascism which controls the market place in favor of the few at the expense of the many.

I doubt if anyone in government or corporate America wants to move us to Fascism or any other "ism". As a group they are not big thinkers and their focus is completely on their own bottom lines just one and sometimes two quarters down the road. Conspiracy theories are fun but they seldom match up with the facts.
The sad part about the story above is that this government incompetence will taint the industry and when we really need it to come on line there will be few investors willing to take a chance on something that has already been shown to be a scam.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 23 Aug 2010, 18:11:57

No need to blame big/evil government or corporate conspiracy for the failures of biodiesel. Look no further than the basic model, and bad EROEI. Anyway, New England fuel-crops can't compete with Canadian rapeseed. Recycled re-processed waste cooking fats is also pointless, except as a waste-management mitigation.

Or as Tony Soprano says of the bad guys: "Da solution to pollution is dilution. Okay. Time to dilute the gumba. BAM!" :twisted:
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 23 Aug 2010, 19:58:11

pstarr wrote:No need to blame big/evil government or corporate conspiracy for the failures of biodiesel. Look no further than the basic model, and bad EROEI. Anyway, New England fuel-crops can't compete with Canadian rapeseed. Recycled re-processed waste cooking fats is also pointless, except as a waste-management mitigation.

Or as Tony Soprano says of the bad guys: "Da solution to pollution is dilution. Okay. Time to dilute the gumba. BAM!" :twisted:

8) EROEI is all well and good but after the oil is gone or at least very scarce using solid bulky fuels or none portable energy sources such as wind and hydro power to produce a stable liquid fuel even a ratios of three or five to one will seem like a stroke of genius. All the coal in the world won't get a F22 in the air until you convert some of it to jet fuel. How much coal it takes to make a gallon will be the least of your problems.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby americandream » Mon 23 Aug 2010, 20:32:45

Good reply to an absurd idea.

vtsnowedin wrote:
Oakley wrote:And what should already be obvious to everyone, government and big business have colluded to bring us a system of fascism which controls the market place in favor of the few at the expense of the many.

I doubt if anyone in government or corporate America wants to move us to Fascism or any other "ism". As a group they are not big thinkers and their focus is completely on their own bottom lines just one and sometimes two quarters down the road. Conspiracy theories are fun but they seldom match up with the facts. .
Dismayed participant in the global pyramid scheme.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 23 Aug 2010, 21:44:39

vtsnowedin wrote:
pstarr wrote:No need to blame big/evil government or corporate conspiracy for the failures of biodiesel. Look no further than the basic model, and bad EROEI. Anyway, New England fuel-crops can't compete with Canadian rapeseed. Recycled re-processed waste cooking fats is also pointless, except as a waste-management mitigation.

Or as Tony Soprano says of the bad guys: "Da solution to pollution is dilution. Okay. Time to dilute the gumba. BAM!" :twisted:

8) EROEI is all well and good but after the oil is gone or at least very scarce using solid bulky fuels or none portable energy sources such as wind and hydro power to produce a stable liquid fuel even a ratios of three or five to one will seem like a stroke of genius. All the coal in the world won't get a F22 in the air until you convert some of it to jet fuel. How much coal it takes to make a gallon will be the least of your problems.
Aarrgghhh. There is not way to justify biodiesel. You don't even have the excuse (made for ethanol) that you are converting a "less valuable" fuel such as coal (via agriculture/photosynthesis--->electrical generation--->hydrolization--->fermentation) into a valuable liquid fuel. By any measure, biodiesel production requires more energy than is contained in the fuel.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 24 Aug 2010, 04:39:48

pstarr wrote: Aarrgghhh. There is not way to justify biodiesel. You don't even have the excuse (made for ethanol) that you are converting a "less valuable" fuel such as coal (via agriculture/photosynthesis--->electrical generation--->hydrolization--->fermentation) into a valuable liquid fuel. By any measure, biodiesel production requires more energy than is contained in the fuel.

I'm not arguing that biodiesel can be made at a EROEI profit. Far from it. And the present so called Waste products that are being used in these plants are not truly waste at all.
BUT post peak oil and peak coal which will happen as soon as people start to seek alternatives to the oil they no longer can obtain ANY liquid fuel will become essential for agriculture and our food supply. We can't go back to animal and human powered agriculture without starving five billion people to death. The desperate and hungry will use what ever they can in whatever amounts it takes to make enough fuel to plant and harvest their crops. I expect the technology to move forward and alga oil to move to the front but not before oil hits $200/bl and stays there for a year and the shysters and government incompetents get moved out of the way.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby anador » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:09:05

Hold on, I agree that plant and fossil-fuel based "bio-diesel" re processing are unrealistic; there has been great promise in the pyrolysis of tires and other synthetic rubber products. Facility operators get paid to take tires away, paid for the bio diesel they produce, and paid for the left-over steel scrap and carbon black as by products.

Landfill mining and plain market demand for tire disposal from scrapyards provided a stable flow of garbage to be recycled.

True in a strict sense the energy incumbent in producing that tire is higher than the final output, but the return from a waste to energy perspective is positive.
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:20:45

anador wrote: the return from a waste to energy perspective is positive.



Is it, if you count the costs of mining landfills and driving around picking up old tires?
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 12:55:08

anador wrote:Hold on, I agree that plant and fossil-fuel based "bio-diesel" re processing are unrealistic; there has been great promise in the pyrolysis of tires and other synthetic rubber products. Facility operators get paid to take tires away, paid for the bio diesel they produce, and paid for the left-over steel scrap and carbon black as by products.

Landfill mining and plain market demand for tire disposal from scrapyards provided a stable flow of garbage to be recycled.

True in a strict sense the energy incumbent in producing that tire is higher than the final output, but the return from a waste to energy perspective is positive.
Pyrolysis. Nice mitigation that may ultimately reduce landfills and keep some CO2 out of the atmosphere. However pyrolysis requires;
--FUEL to process grind the tire feedstock
--FUEL (more tires?) to heat/hydrolyze and break the carbon chains
--extra FUEL to scrub/capture the horrendous junk burned (from the tires) into the atmosphere,
--additional FUEL (coal electricity, diesel ) to chemically recombine the carbon back into liquid fuel.

Each step uses precious petroleum and is an efficiency loss. It would be more efficient to merely throw the tires in a power plant and spill the gunk into the atmosphere at one time.

Anyway, how again does any of this replace free petroleum, from free sunlight, Gaia provided us for free, over the last 60 million years ?
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Re: Vermont biodiesel plant closes

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 26 Aug 2010, 13:00:39

Ludi wrote:
anador wrote: the return from a waste to energy perspective is positive.



Is it, if you count the costs of mining landfills and driving around picking up old tires?
the devil is in the details.

Carlhole might have us introduce Intelligent Computer Chips into the tires, so they roll themselves back to their Maker, their God Firestone. :razz:

That begs the question. If people have a Singularity, then do Tires? Okay that is silly, but to be serious (somewhat :razz: ) if people have a Singularity do other tool-using organisms also have a Singularity? Will there be a Myrna bird-Singularity. A chimp-Singularity? Will these other Singularity be tolerant of our Singularity? Can we change Singularities?
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