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Pollution Pt. 2

Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:37:58

Cid_Yama wrote:Carrier Ronald Reagan passes through radioactive 'cloud' off Japan


This headline sounds like the premise of a bad 1950s horror movie.
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 10:31:50

It's being picked up by Dr. Masters at Wunderground, now, too:

By Dr. Jeff Masters
Published: 1:00 PM GMT on March 14, 2011
Radiation from Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has been detected 100 miles to the northeast, over the Pacific Ocean, by the U.S. military. Westerly to southwesterly winds have predominated over Japan the past few days, carrying most of the radiation eastwards out to sea. The latest forecast for Sendai, Japan, located about 40 miles north of the Fukushima nuclear plant, calls for winds with a westerly component to dominate for the remainder of the week, with the exception of a 6-hour period on Tuesday. Thus, any radiation released by the nuclear plant will primarily affect Japan or blow out to sea. A good tool to predict the radiation cloud's path is NOAA's HYSPLIT trajectory model. The model uses the GFS model's winds to track the movement of a hypothetical release of a substance into the atmosphere. One can specify the altitude of the release as well as the location, and follow the trajectory for up to two weeks. However, given the highly chaotic nature of the atmosphere's winds, trajectories beyond about 3 days have huge uncertainties.One can get only a general idea of where a plume is headed beyond 3 days. I've been performing a number of runs of HYSPLIT over past few days, and so far great majority of these runs have taken plumes of radioactivity emitted from Japan's east coast eastwards over the Pacific, with the plumes staying over water for at least 5 days. Some of the plumes move over eastern Siberia, Alaska, Canada, the U.S., and Mexico in 5 - 7 days. Such a long time spent over water will mean that the vast majority of the radioactive particles will settle out of the atmosphere or get caught up in precipitation and rained out. It is highly unlikely that any radiation capable of causing harm to people will be left in atmosphere after seven days and 2000+ miles of travel distance. Even the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, which had a far more serious release of radioactivity, was unable to spread significant contamination more than about 1000 miles.



[url]
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... ticle.html[/url]

The fact that we have had nuclear fall out land on our shores in the past (not only from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but from the open air testing in the Pacific and in the SW) is supposed to somehow comfort us? No one knows how many people got cancer from those exposures as it is impossible to track the source. But there is no question that some people did (unless, of course, one is just a pro-nuke fanatic, in which case you are just going to go ahead and think whatever supports your own warped view.)
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 10:37:15

mos6507 wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:Carrier Ronald Reagan passes through radioactive 'cloud' off Japan


This headline sounds like the premise of a bad 1950s horror movie.


lsol......

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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby Pops » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:27:54

The subject of Stoneleigh's master thesis at the law faculty of Warwick University in Coventry, England, where she studied International Law in Development, was nuclear safety research.


Interesting overview from Stonleigh at TAE...

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2 ... anese.html
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:51:29

dohboi wrote:The fact that we have had nuclear fall out land on our shores in the past (not only from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but from the open air testing in the Pacific and in the SW) is supposed to somehow comfort us? No one knows how many people got cancer from those exposures as it is impossible to track the source. But there is no question that some people did (unless, of course, one is just a pro-nuke fanatic, in which case you are just going to go ahead and think whatever supports your own warped view.)


There are dangers inherent in all forms of energy production. Nuclear is probably (next to hydro & solar) one of the cleanest available. There's no good way to measure the adverse effects. We definitely know that coal and oil burning have been much more harmful to the populace in terms of disease and death. Of course this will not convince the anti-nuke, anti-radiation fanatic. Just watch out for that deadly ol' Sun ... and your microwave and the TSA scanners at airports and .... :o

In the interests of full disclosure my paternal aunt did get thyroid cancer in the '50s (probably from the radiation releases from Hanford); she died some 40 years later of bone cancer at the age of 85. My dad died of Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma related to his decades of work at Hanford. He died at the age of 76 (early? who knows) for which we received a sizable compensation from the Federal government. My father and his sister's husband could have remained coal miners in Colorado and died of Black Lung or radon poisoning while in their forties. Instead they chose to go to war, to get an education and to work at the Hanford plant. Shit happens and Death is going to get you in the end. It's more important to live a good and useful life and not be afraid.
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
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"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 12:44:17

DomusAlbion wrote:There are dangers inherent in all forms of energy production.


Yep, it's the classic "Pick your poison"...

DomusAlbion wrote:Shit happens and Death is going to get you in the end. It's more important to live a good and useful life and not be afraid.


Maybe this would help ?

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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 13:08:56

Love that picture, Dino!

A note to all. Most of the grapes for finest Washington wines are grown within a 50 mile radius of the old Hanford Reservation. Remember that when toasting your loved ones with a fine glass of Washington Cabernet or Merlot. :-D
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 15:35:05

Nothin' but distilled hard liquor for me. :roll:
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby crude_intentions » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 16:18:22

Well the good news is that if the fallout reaches the U.S we'll finally have a chance to put all those FEMA camps into use. :-|
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
- Albert Einstein
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 22:05:59

For those too young to remember--one particularly nasty element in earlier fallout from open air testing of nukes was strontium 90. It mimics calcium chemically, so it gets into milk and from there into bones where it causes bone and marrow cancers among other things. There is a nice summary of the highlights at wiki, but perhaps others could post other sources on this and other delightful things one might expect from nuclear fallout?

(By the way, to shrug the catastrophe off with a 'life is full of risks' attitude shows quite a course nature, to put it gently.)
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Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby misterno » Thu 24 Mar 2011, 16:02:58

Upuntil 2-3 weeks ago, I enjoyed Golden Pompano my favorite fish every weekend. Kinda expensive like 4 dollars a pound but that was my favorite until today when I discovered that this wild caught fish is imported from Taiwan which is like next to Japan.

There was no warnnig or anything around the fish stand and people were buying like nothing happened. There is a farmed version of this fish but I don't want to buy that.

Do you think fish from Taiwan is safe given the proximity to Japan?
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Re: Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby timmac » Thu 24 Mar 2011, 16:31:19

One might want to buy a Geiger Counter to check seafood, than again how does one check for contamination from the Gulf seafood..
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Re: Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby GASMON » Fri 25 Mar 2011, 14:18:43

How about one of these alongside your chips (fries) and mushy peas !!

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Re: Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby Lore » Fri 25 Mar 2011, 14:31:55

I'd worry more about other toxins in fish then radioactivity. So, it's no more dangerous then it has been, but if your nose glows red when ever temperatures reach over 90F you may want to check your mercury level.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby paimei01 » Fri 01 Apr 2011, 14:38:25

Don't forget the plastic soup. 6 times more plastic than plancton there. And it floats. It will be there possible forever. Plastic just breaking into smaller and smaller pieces.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... rance.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rAShtolieg
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One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
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Re: Seafood from Pacific is safe or not?

Unread postby eXpat » Fri 01 Apr 2011, 14:43:00

Hmm, radioactive Fish from the Pacific, and with oil and corexit in the Atlantic :|. I suggest you try both, it makes for a well balanced diet. 8) Yummy :twisted:
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Milk and vegetables, safe or not?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 01 Apr 2011, 15:29:36

Ok, Virginia has a health advisory out telling people not to drink rainwater (I guess some folks have cisterns). While they say the radiation is still too low to be a health hazard, all the same they say don't drink the water.

So I was thinking about this over a salad at lunch.. veggies have lots of rainwater in them. What's the difference between the water in a cucumber and rainwater?

And then there's milk.. of all the articles I've read, the most consistent warning with iodine radiation is to stay away from milk. Most people who get sick consumed it through milk. Now, there's news out of Washington State that "perfectly safe" levels of Fukoshima radiation have made into the milk supply.

What's the bottom line guys.. are our crops safe, is dairy safe?

EDIT: updated article on the milk situation..

Radioactive milk could have come from across state

SPOKANE, Wash. -- That slightly radioactive milk found in Spokane could have come from anywhere in the state or northern Idaho.

The Washington Department of Agriculture says the Darigold plant in Spokane that bottled the milk receives its supply from dairies across the state and the panhandle of Idaho. The radiation levels are below the level of public health concern and the agency says milk produced in the state remains safe to drink.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency this week said Japan's radioactive fallout is showing up in milk in Washington and California, most likely after a cow ate tainted grass or drank puddles of rainwater containing it. Iodine-131, the type that was found, is short-lived and decays fairly quickly, becoming harmless.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_japan_earthquake_milk.html


Yeah Iodine-131 is short-lived, but so is milk. Not much time passes from the cow to the store to your bowl of Cheerios. And another thing.. if these radiation levels are so far below normal that it's nothing to worry about, then how do they know it's coming from Fukoshima in the first place? How do they know it's not normal radiation?

And the nuke plant near me.. they measured "abnormal levels of radiation," they track it down and figure out it's from Fukoshima. But then they say it's "below normal levels." Which is it, abnormal or normal. It was obviously abnormal enough to cause them some concern at the nuke plant.
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Re: Milk and vegetables, safe or not?

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 01 Apr 2011, 16:38:48

Risk/ benefits - drink the milk. Wash our veggies like you should anyway. The veggies are more likely to reduce your risk of cancer than any contamination, unless you live in Japan, or the anxiety of eating any food may kill you. In that case, avoid all food. Drink only distilled water.
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Atmosphere facilitates changes that let mercury enter fish

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 18 Dec 2011, 19:34:03

Upper atmosphere facilitates changes that let mercury enter food chain

Humans pump thousands of tons of vapor from the metallic element mercury into the atmosphere each year, and it can remain suspended for long periods before being changed into a form that is easily removed from the atmosphere.

New research shows that the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere work to transform elemental mercury into oxidized mercury, which can easily be deposited into aquatic ecosystems and ultimately enter the food chain.


Exactly how the oxidation takes place is not known with certainty but, once the transformation takes place, the oxidized mercury is quickly removed from the atmosphere, mostly through precipitation or air moving to the surface. After it settles to the surface, the oxidized mercury is transformed by bacteria into methyl mercury, a form that can be taken into the food chain and eventually can result in mercury-contaminated fish.

Some areas, such as the Southwest United States, appear to have specific climate conditions that allow them to receive more oxidized mercury from the upper atmosphere than other areas, Lyman noted.

He added that where the mercury settles to the surface can be thousands of miles from where it was emitted. For example, mercury from coal burning in Asia could rise into the atmosphere and circle the globe several times before it is oxidized, then could come to the surface anywhere. Understanding where it is oxidized and deposited would help efforts to predict ecosystem impacts of mercury emissions, he said.


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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 03 Apr 2012, 11:41:04

This is incredibly cool:
A new project posted online by a pair of Google computer scientists, called simply Wind Map (Via Slashdot)

An invisible, ancient source of energy surrounds us—energy that powered the first explorations of the world, and that may be a key to the future.

This map shows you the delicate tracery of wind flowing over the US.

The wind map is a personal art project, not associated with any company. We've done our best to make this as accurate as possible, but can't make any guarantees about the correctness of the data or our software. Please do not use the map or its data to fly a plane, sail a boat, or fight wildfires :-)
or dodge fallout?
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