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Pollution Pt. 2

Re: Canada quietly asks EPA to weaken anti-pollution measures

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 28 Dec 2009, 20:33:30

I count only one Canadian that posted in this thread. What gives? I thought Canadians were uber green and eco-conscious. I guess everything changes when you find black gold in your back yard. :roll:
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Re: Canada quietly asks EPA to weaken anti-pollution measures

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 28 Dec 2009, 21:35:07

Serial_Worrier wrote:
It's not like anyone lives near a coal-fired power plant. You don't have a god given right to have every acre of the earth in a pristine state. That is not a human right. It IS a human right not to freeze to death in winter.


Baloney, there are no "Human Rights" God given or otherwise.

The rights you have are the ones you or yours have secured for you and that you must defend.
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Re: Canada quietly asks EPA to weaken anti-pollution measures

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 07:12:00

Serial_Worrier wrote:It's not like anyone lives near a coal-fired power plant. You don't have a god given right to have every acre of the earth in a pristine state. That is not a human right. It IS a human right not to freeze to death in winter.



Who decides what is or isn't a human right?

You alone, Serial_Worrier?

What about the right to a functioning ecosystem?
Last edited by Ludi on Tue 29 Dec 2009, 07:46:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Canada quietly asks EPA to weaken anti-pollution measures

Unread postby Cabrone » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 07:31:43

It's just a shame that the tar sands aren't located in and around Ottowa, if they had have been then the whole abomination would never have seen the light of day.

I can only hope that global economics drives their business model into the ground (excuse the pun). There's a lot of cash going into alternatives now and tar sands must be quite vulnerable.

Sadly that won't help future generations of Canadians who will have to clean up this toxic dump whilst yet again the sociopaths who created it get away with the loot.
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Re: Canada quietly asks EPA to weaken anti-pollution measures

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 29 Dec 2009, 07:43:01

Ludi wrote:
Serial_Worrier wrote:It's not like anyone lives near a coal-fired power plant. You don't have a god given right to have every acre of the earth in a pristine state. That is not a human right. It IS a human right not to freeze to death in winter.



Who decides what is or isn't a human right?

You?


That's correct Ludi, we do. Both individually and collectively.

Take for example the "Bill of Rights." Created by men.
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Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 16 Jul 2010, 23:15:02

Via Slashdot:
Recycled Island will be created from plastic waste in the Pacific Ocean (green.blorge.com)

Recycled Island is a great idea for getting rid of the floating plastic dump in the Pacific. The island would be built where the trash is located and would convert the waste onsite cutting down on cleanup and building costs. It would be between Hawaii and San Francisco in the heart of the Pacific Ocean’s currents.Image

...

Further aspects of the island would be: the creation of “fertile ground” from compost toilets.
Image


Here's the Recycled Island website.
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 06:31:30

My alternative is to win the lottery, buy an old cargo ship, head out there with a vacuum system and giant filter bags to suck up and capture the floating plastic, then compress it into the cargo hold in compact blocks. Once the old cargo ship is completely filled to capacity take it to shore and sell the plastic to a recycling center. Repeat until lottery money is all gone.

It would be my gift to help clean up the mess humans are making of God's green earth.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Don35 » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 07:30:45

Tanada wrote:My alternative is to win the lottery, buy an old cargo ship, head out there with a vacuum system and giant filter bags to suck up and capture the floating plastic, then compress it into the cargo hold in compact blocks. Once the old cargo ship is completely filled to capacity take it to shore and sell the plastic to a recycling center. Repeat until lottery money is all gone.

It would be my gift to help clean up the mess humans are making of God's green earth.


I like the way you think. Nice!
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 07:41:36

Yeah, I've been listening to some of this stuff for a while. Let me pass on something from this mornings NPR report, just to bring some context to it.

They just finished a survey of the North Atlantic gyre (there are 5 gyres you know, not just the famous N. Pacific one.) They tow surface trawls to capture the plastic in the water, then they analyze what they have found to determine the concentration.

The eastern edge of the North Atlantic gyre had orders of magnitude more plastic than they had ever found anywhere before, including the North Pacific patch. At its most dense they found plastic particles (now these are pretty small, think pencil eraser down) at the rate of 6 per bath tub full. So, out of bath tub of water you get a thimble of plastic trash. This is the highest concentration ever found, by far.

This is a huge problem for wildlife as they move through these deposits and, to them, it looks like a buffet. Especially the red and orange crap which they scarf up. So the critters eat this stuff and concentrate it into their guts and they die.

But to build a city out of this? How are you going to aggregate it? How are you going to pull it all together into a significant mass and then break it all down into its various different compounds so it can be reused? Hell, we can't do this effectively in our large cities now, not really. Not at any kind of high efficiency. Running tankers or skimmers around is more costly and burns more energy than what you would collect.

The best they could do would be to invent some kind of frankenfish that would ingest this stuff and then swim into a holding pen to die. Maybe some kind of Pacific Salmon that returns to some specific place to spawn and then die, thus depositing the plastics.

I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby eXpat » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 11:58:57

Keith_McClary wrote:Via Slashdot:
Recycled Island will be created from plastic waste in the Pacific Ocean (green.blorge.com)

Recycled Island is a great idea for getting rid of the floating plastic dump in the Pacific. The island would be built where the trash is located and would convert the waste onsite cutting down on cleanup and building costs. It would be between Hawaii and San Francisco in the heart of the Pacific Ocean’s currents.Image

...

Further aspects of the island would be: the creation of “fertile ground” from compost toilets.
Image


Here's the Recycled Island website.

Yeah right. :evil: and we can go there with our flying cars too ...
Image
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Narz » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 12:19:56

They stole my idea!
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Re: Pacific Plastic Vortex to become "Recycled Island"

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 17 Jul 2010, 15:48:28

eXpat wrote:
Keith_McClary wrote:Via Slashdot:



Hey...that looks like a great idea for a remote doomstead. Imagine everybody checking out the babes in the pool while listening to the short-wave radio reports on how the rest of the world is collapsing around us.
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AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coast

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 00:45:03

Well, what started as a dubious map on godlikeproductions is starting to bubble up to the mainstream. Drudgereport has a fallout article linked, so people are about to start talking about this a lot more.

And now this from Accuweather.. they don't call it a fallout map but labeled it "typical wind trajectories:

Image

The wind direction may impact where the radiation goes both at a local level and even across the globe. The wind direction at both of these locations are similar since the Onagawa power plant is located just to the northeast of Fukushima power plant.

"The exact direction of the winds would have to be known at the time of the release of a large amount of radiation to understand exactly where the radiation would go," according to Expert Senior Global Meteorologist Jim Andrews.
It is unknown when a large release of radiation would occur, if at all, at this point.

"You can calculate how long the release of a radiation would take to cross the Pacific from Japan to the U.S. by choosing different speeds that the radioactive particles might be moving and using the direct distance between given locations- say Sendai, Japan, and Seattle, Wash.," Andrews added.

However, even that calculation may not reflect how long the particle would take to cross the Pacific, since it would not likely cross the ocean in a direct path. This is the case because the wind flow is often a complicated pattern.

A typical wind trajectory across the Pacific is westerly, since there is often a large dome of high pressure over the central Pacific and an area of low pressure in the Gulf of Alaska.

Any storm systems moving across the Pacific would add kinks in the westerly flow that would make the path of a particle crossing the Pacific longer.

"In other words, it would be a very intricate and difficult calculation," said Andrews.
On a local level, it is easier to break down the direction of the wind.

On Monday, the winds at the Fukushima power plant and the Onagawa power plant will generally be out of the north to northwest. So, the wind flow will still be directed offshore into the Pacific. This would be a protective wind that would blow most of the radiation out to sea.

The wind direction will switch to an onshore direction Monday night into Tuesday, threatening to send the radiation toward the population.

"We are getting into the time of year where onshore winds occur most often," said Andrews.
This is not good news, since an onshore direction would blow most of the radiation toward populated areas. An added threat is that with higher elevations just about 4 miles inland from the power plants, if a temperature inversion sets up in the atmosphere, radiation could be trapped.

Authorities have warned residents to keep windows and doors closed and air-conditioning fans switched off to eliminate the intake of air from outside.
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/46940/winds-at-japan-power-plants-sh-1.asp


While not alarming anyone with a map that comes out and says the F word, here's how they end the article:

Calculated time for radioactive particles to cross the Pacific from the power plants in Japan to big West Coast cities if the particles take a direct path and move at a speed of 20 mph:
Cities Approx. Distance (miles) Approx. Time to Cross Pacific (days)
Anchorage 3,457 7
Honolulu 3,847 8
Seattle 4,792 10
Los Angeles5,477 11

http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/46940/winds-at-japan-power-plants-sh-1.asp

8O
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 02:50:54

It is unknown when a large release of radiation would occur, if at all, at this point.

Carrier Ronald Reagan passes through radioactive 'cloud' off Japan
The crew of the San Diego-based aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan could have been exposed to far more radiation that initially reported by the US Navy.

The New York Times is reporting that, "The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.

"The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.

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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby Pops » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 07:51:56

If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby Pops » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 08:27:40

So, how likely is it that a large amount of radiation could be released?

What is the chance it would be large enough to reach N America (or HI)?

What would be the proper response if there were such a release?
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby DomusAlbion » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:07:05

I would remind our readers that there were two rather large and very dirty "releases" of radiation in Japan in 1945. The remnants of those "releases" also drifted over the North American continent. What was our response to the lingering amount of radiation at that time? Little. What where the ill effects at that time? Immeasurable to the point of being nil.

Relax. Everything will be fine.

If you live of the West Coast and are troubled then do the following:

1. Stay indoors as much as possible for a couple of weeks once the “cloud” arrives.
2. Take potassium iodide to prevent any radio-active iodine from being absorbed by your thyroid gland.

I grew up in Richland, WA the site of the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. When I was young there were several releases of radio-active gases and we all survived. I'm fine, really! And it's nice having this third arm for all kinds of purposes. :roll:
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:11:17

godlikeproductions :lol:

Taht place is run by the shadow government. That palce is designed to incite fear into ppl.
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby TheDude » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:26:43

I was born at the end of the Hanford Downwinder phenomenon. No ill effects 40 years in for myself, but people around where I grew up (north/central OR) used to drop dead from sudden massive cancer/leukemia on more than a few occasions in the 50s/60s. Not exactly a non-issue, if you ask me. There's still leakage headed through the groundwater towards the Columbia, too. Truly a snafu here. Lord knows what kind of messes are to be found in the ex-USSR, though.

In all likelihood the fallout will be pretty sparse by the time it gets here, though, assuming it does, which is, pardon the pun, still up in the air - latest forecasts have the wind blowing inland tomorrow. If it comes to it you can take KI tablets as per Dom's suggestion; I posted some info on this in another thread.
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Re: AccuWeather fallout map, time estimate to reach West Coa

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 14 Mar 2011, 09:29:30

an not potassium iodade either. Make sure it's potassium iodide
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