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Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their reef

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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 28 Jul 2016, 16:27:20

Anyone from the western Pacific got an opinion on how much of this is just a stunt for domestic politics and how much is a serious attempt at doing something?
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 28 Jul 2016, 16:39:29

More weirdo politics from the PI. It is likely mining companies have commissioned murders of various environmental activists in the country, where smoking a joint is a more serious crime than murdering someone who smoked a joint. The government is simply throwing a bone to the CHR, who have been protesting Dutertes war on drugs, in which the government tally is over 300 & the unofficial body count has already been lost. That's in the last two months. Duterte promised to kill 100,000 drug personalities & feed them to fish in Manila bay. Killings of activists continue.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby regardingpo » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 02:33:53

This is interesting in light of Duterte's plan to break the promises made in the Paris Agreement. He's basically shifting the blame for global warming to everyone else and saying "we are the victims of CC, others caused it, they should pay for it".

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nt-duterte
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 04:29:02

Yep, it's an impossible case, designed to drag all the energy of the CHR into a pipe dream while he initiates the new killing fields.

It is hard to believe such an utter psychopath can be so popular. I always thought my wife's people had a bit too much "kill them all, let God sort them out" natural bloodlust, by electing this a$$#ipe they have proved it. She still thinks he's great & she has lived in Australia for 5 years, where most politicians in the Philippines would be serving very long prison sentences were they Australian.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 05:57:37

regardingpo wrote: He's basically shifting the blame for global warming to everyone else and saying "we are the victims of CC, others caused it, they should pay for it".


Not 'everyone else', but rather Western oil companies, and by extension, Western developed nations, and that is ABSOLUTELY correct.

The Philippines carbon signature, compared to the west, is insignificant.

If I were a small nation like the Philippines, which suffers out of proportion to it's contribution, I'd be flipping off the developed nations too.

Not that any of this matters. It's over. There is nothing ANYONE can do.

Do you really believe that the Super Typhoons that have repeatedly devastated the Philippines are not the result of developed nation emissions? Developed nations OWE them and all the small island nations.

We should be paying just to ameliorate the suffering.

if a drunk driver drove through a wall of your house and demolished it, would you not feel they owed you, even though they didn't intentionally do it? Their recklessness caused it.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 07:14:40

The application amounts to retrospectively conflicting government decisions made globally including in the Philippines. It cannot fly. Meanwhile if we are talking global responsibility of nations, the Philippines is responsible for one of the worst cases of overbreeding, adding many more eager English speaking wage slaves than what their country can ever support.

BTW Cid, Google Yolanda & corruption to get an idea why aid can't fix the problem.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby regardingpo » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 08:32:18

Cid_Yama, I'm not gonna argue against anything you wrote, I wasn't even saying that Duterte isn't making a valid point. I just wanted to write a short post, and well, when you do that the accuracy of the post suffers.

The main point for me is that a lot of countries that signed the Paris Agreement will find justifications to break the promises they made as soon as keeping them becomes an "inconvenience". Polish words, not mine:
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/0 ... te-target/

Combine that with the fact that even if all the promises from the Paris Agreement are kept, the world will reach 2C warming around 2040 (not 2100 as the agreement falsely claims) and it follows that humanity's only hope is that the likes of comrade Trump are right and AGW is just a "bullshit Chinese hoax".
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 09:20:43

dohboi wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/27/worlds-largest-carbon-producers-face-landmark-human-rights-case

World's largest carbon producers face landmark human rights case

Filipino government body gives 47 ‘carbon majors’ 45 days to respond to allegations of human rights violations resulting from climate change


The world’s largest oil, coal, cement and mining companies have been given 45 days to respond to a complaint that their greenhouse gas emissions have violated the human rights of millions of people living in the Phillippines.

In a potential landmark legal case, the Commission on Human Rights of the Philippines (CHR), a constitutional body with the power to investigate human rights violations, has sent 47 “carbon majors” including Shell, BP, Chevron, BHP Billiton and Anglo American, a 60-page document accusing them of breaching people’s fundamental rights to “life, food, water, sanitation, adequate housing, and to self determination”.

The move is the first step in what is expected to be an official investigation of the companies by the CHR, and the first of its kind in the world to be launched by a government body.

The complaint argues that the 47 companies should be held accountable for the effects of their greenhouse gas emissions in the Philippines and demands that they explain how human rights violations resulting from climate change will be “eliminated, remedied and prevented”.

It calls for an official investigation into the human rights implications of climate change and ocean acidification and whether the investor-owned “carbon majors” are in breach of their responsibilities...


I dug down through the link to the original report that was used to create the list of companies to sue. I have some serious reservations about the validity of the list because it depends on publicly released data by the emitters. For example I missed seeing anything about the Indonesian oil industry, that has been a major producer for a century and only fell out of OPEC about 15 years ago when local consumption exceeded local production. Other major emitters like the Chinese coal industry are barely if at all mentioned because though in aggregate they are the #1 coal burning country they have a lot of small mines from small companies so none of them rises to the the top tier of the listings.

To put it another way, countries permit mines and wells to be installed in their territory and used to extract fossil fuels. If the list were going after the top emitting countries rather than individual companies within countries it would make a lot more sense to me.

For example the UK coal companies were socialized after World War II so all UK coal extraction falls into those two categories making for a big company number, similarly the Indian coal corporation is socialized and does most of the coal extraction there.

Another problem with the list is cement production, for example Holcim out of Switzerland is mentioned. I am slightly familiar with this company because growing up I lived near a very large cement company where I had a couple relatives working that was bought out by Holcim in the 1990's and closed last year when the quarry became played out. Does the Holcim number account for the 40 years that plant produced cement while it was an independent company or not? The emissions still took place, but the original owners are retired or dead as are the first generation of people who worked making cement there.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby claman » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 12:05:10

When it comes to climate change, we in the west probably have to take it on us, But when it comes to over population in the Philippines, the phillippines have the whole and only responsability. Just like in every other developing country, they blame every body else but them selves for their own miseries.
Stop reproducing like rabbits and every body will be richer.
The third world just won't face the fact that they are to many on too little land/sea.
Political correctness forbids us to say it as it is, but : We are too many people on this planet, and locally we are way too many.
Nature should be allowed to kill us all if we don’t fit into our local eco-system.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 16:41:54

Claman is absolutely right. Rich countries should be held more responsible for climate change that is simply the just way to look at it. But poor countries like the Philippines are also responsible for over breeding. For the record I do not see any traction with these charges, it is just some PR by Duterte.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 20:07:31

claman wrote:When it comes to climate change, we in the west probably have to take it on us, But when it comes to over population in the Philippines, the phillippines have the whole and only responsability. Just like in every other developing country, they blame every body else but them selves for their own miseries.
Stop reproducing like rabbits and every body will be richer.
The third world just won't face the fact that they are to many on too little land/sea.
Political correctness forbids us to say it as it is, but : We are too many people on this planet, and locally we are way too many.


I think one of the main reasons for a high birth rate is poverty, and the solution for that in developed countries was prosperity. But prosperity may also mean higher footprints per capita.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 03:27:01

High rates of intercourse will always be the case unless special circumstances and motivations like in rich countries exist. One, access to contraceptives. Two, people motivated for economic reasons to NOT procreate. Three, no social/traditional/religious pressures to procreate.
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 17:53:18

Foreign minister Yasay left ASEAN meeting about issue of joint statement on the SCS claiming that too many nations want to avoid conflict for the Philippines to require the recent arbitration court ruling in our favour appear in the Joint Statement. A flat out lie. Other foreign ministers have denied Yasays statement & responded it was his position alone, mystifying everyone.

This is the beginning of Duterte falling from grace. As I predicted, he's done a backroom deal with China already, it's the US he's been playing, not China.

How can the US continue to assist building Filipino forces while they lay out the welcome mat for China, 3 minutes by jet fighter from Manila?
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Re: Philippines Charges FF Companies for Violating Human Rig

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 17:58:06

Merge request:
Mods, please consider there is going to be a pretty much continuous newsflow out of the Philippines, due to the character of the new government. I'm thinking this nutcase doesn't need 500 threads on our forums, one bucket for the Philippines, please?
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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 19:13:24

Merged and then stuck for easy access. Let me know if I missed anything significant.
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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 19:44:50

In your dreams, SeaGypsy. Duterte has over a 90% approval rating in the Philippines. The people WANT the US back out.

Aquino III betrayed the Philippines by letting the US back in, as in, he was bought off. Duterte has put the Philippines back on the track it was on before Aquino III. Back in line with the people's revolution.

Even your wife loves the guy. Only .2 % of Filipinos feel as you do.

Your viewpoint is twisted by your vehement hatred for the man.

Of course they are going with China. It's in the Philippines' best interest. We've already seen what decades of US domination has brought to the Philippines. Poverty, misery and corruption.

As for ASEAN, they basically handed Biden his hat, and said thanks but no thanks. You see, many members of ASEAN are already on board with China and are already reaping the benefits. That's why TPP failed so miserably.

People are no longer fooled by the US rhetoric, they have already been burned and know first hand what we represent. Exploitation by banks and big corporations, government corruption, and poverty and misery for the people.
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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 20:13:57

"People are no longer fooled by the US rhetoric, they have already been burned and know first hand what we represent. Exploitation by banks and big corporations, government corruption, and poverty and misery for the people." Precisely, what has happened also in South America whereby populist wishes have become rabidly anti American because of the sordid history which the natives know full well involves US meddling. In all areas we are seeing a waning of Western dominance. Good riddance I say because the West could and should be alot better than what we have had in terms of a financial utterly corrupt oligarchy running things with wars, environmental mayhem and exploitation on an unprecedented level of peoples and countries from all around the world within the context of the rabid insatiable Capitalistic system.
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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 20:22:44

If you think you know more than me about the Philippines I can assure you are mistaken.

Firstly your skewed numbers neglect that only 15 % of the population voted for him, with a 60+ million enrollment. The guy is a blatant populist, but he is undoubte the most complicated personality in the political history of a very complicated country.

If Duterte succeeds I will eat my words. In my view success would include proper cold case review for all political assassinations going back to Magsaysay, the living generations. This simply cannot happen in the Philippines, but if it doesn't happen, the so called purge of corruption is utterly fake. The effectively random killing of thousands of drug suspects underway is a mockery of justice & if you are unable to see that you are as stupid as the 90% of Filipinos who are trusting this guy, basically out of desperation.
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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 20:42:33

Yes, onlooker. And this has been going on far longer than I've been alive.

From a speech in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC, 2 time recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor.

War is just a racket. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

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Re: Phillipines accuses China of building airstrip on their

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 20:55:12

Thanks Cid. Great insight into what it is to be a military personnel and then reflect on what it really meant. I suppose we all have been disillusioned in one way or another by what the US is as opposed to what it could have been. I am a second generation American, my parents from Colombia S.A. In my youth, believed in this myth of American idealism and Declaration of Independence etc. Now, I am a cynic down to the bones as I know the world and the US are so full of bull it is pathetic. Yet, I also know it was just a few at the top who lead us all down this path. Blame them more than the naive ignorant vulnerable masses. Though we are not blameless, we freely partook in this insanity we call modernity.
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