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Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby BobInget » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 09:40:28

When one refers to USD as 'Petrodollar' and goes on to state flatly 'USD will transition out of being the world's reserve currency' (Thereby precluding the US from printing money at current or projected rates thereby being the engine of the entire world's economy) One is saying those nations currently using 'Petro Dollars' like OPEC member Ecuador or Canal owner Panama as their ONLY currency have no say in this matter.Other nations using USD as currency include; East Timor, El Salvador, British Virgin Islands.
A painful fact for some, oil and more to the point gas production in the US growing rapidly.
Wikipedia has some interesting facts for those concerned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... _US_dollar

Note also China's currency, the renminbi is pegged to the dollar as are dozens of other currencies.

Most importantly, there is no basket of currencies, or single currency big enough to handle trade in petroleum, much less gold, even jet fuel.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby BobInget » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 10:52:42

Last year, because of Tea Party sabotage, we lost top Bond rating which of course, cost US taxpayers.
This year, to get a CR (continuing resolution) the same group, I like to call them "The Balking Dead"
are aiming to shut down the government, just for the heck of it. If that happened (which it will not)
we lose our A- credit rating. It's time these idiots realized the Presidential election is OVER but they will need to face their own aging Republican, tax paying base next year.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 12:57:37

"Credit Rating" is close to meaningless with the Fed lock down on rates. And if you think about it, "Credit Rating" on USD Bonds issued by the creator of USD who has no technical limit on the quantity of USD they might create... Its a pretty odd concept.

A further drop in credit rating while rates remain locked at near-zilch will remove a few more excuses concerning the Emperor's Clothes...

But Bob, you do have one thing exactly right, there really is no other alternative of appropriate magnitude.

So the world's entire trading system depends upon a fiat currency issued by a spendthrift nation who has no constitutional limit on the quantity of that currency issued and no legal obligation to back it by anything other than, "cause I say so." My instincts tell me the world is in for some serious fleecing.
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 14:02:01

So the world's entire trading system depends upon a fiat currency issued by a spendthrift nation who has no constitutional limit on the quantity of that currency issued and no legal obligation to back it by anything other than, "cause I say so." My instincts tell me the world is in for some serious fleecing.

Remember our fiat currency was created by a private banking cartel that happens to be controlled by guess who, hint 'J'.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 14:37:52

Ah, so now we're dabbling into anti-Semitism. :roll:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 15:02:56

That didn't take very long, did it.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 16:11:59

How many of the 2 posters it took to decimate this billionaire's argument are billionaires? (or even millionaires) Makes me wonder how stupid people become so rich. Rapid demise of the Petrodollar is for the time being not much more than a dream for those who would like to see the end of American dominance. Meanwhile somehow the world still manages to function.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 16:21:47

SG...
The only thing stupid is believing billionaires tell you what they think, before they've made their cut from it. If its prospective, generic commentary, they're either BS'ing for entertainment, or attempting to push the market.

And no, if you're referring to me, I'm not a billionaire. (not even sure that would be all that much fun)
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 16:36:17

Yeah Agent, I let it slip from my mind that currency trading next to the stock market is an e-bike next to a Mack truck :roll:
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 17:47:58

OilFinder2 wrote:Ah, so now we're dabbling into anti-Semitism. :roll:



Japs....

Jehovah's Witnesses...........

Jamaicans..........
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 18:33:13

Ya right. When was the last time anyone ever accused the Japanese, Jamaicans or Jehovah's Witnesses of controlling a banking cartel that controls the US fiat currency? :lol:

I've little doubt you hang out here when you're not on po.com:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

:roll: :badgrin:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 19:08:45

OilFinder2 wrote:Ah, so now we're dabbling into anti-Semitism. :roll:
Who let you out of your shiny cornie paddock? You should go back to pumping schizurbia. :P

The point remains valid, so long as the world believes in American debt, backed by American military might, American petroleum control, the dollars will continue to flow back in this direction. Once that stops, game over.
November 2016
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby americandream » Thu 19 Sep 2013, 20:23:40



It will not happen. The US is basically the aircraft carrier for the worlds's rich...the bulwark against world revolution in the event that the masses get restless and rise up with a new economic order. From Beijing to Auckland, the worlds wealthy all look to the US as the last bolthole in the event of a collapse of global capitalism. Consequently, it and its currency will continue to head global capitalism till its collapse (from the contradictory forces that continue to plague capitalism)
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 01:35:50

americandream wrote:From Beijing to Auckland, the worlds wealthy all look to the US as the last bolthole in the event of a collapse of global capitalism.


Is this why the US is shy of signing up criminals' exchange treaties with some of the world's countries - an unintended consequence of this is the lack of formal grounds for taking Snowden back for trial.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby americandream » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 01:44:00

radon1 wrote:
americandream wrote:From Beijing to Auckland, the worlds wealthy all look to the US as the last bolthole in the event of a collapse of global capitalism.


Is this why the US is shy of signing up criminals' exchange treaties with some of the world's countries - an unintended consequence of this is the lack of formal grounds for taking Snowden back for trial.


The prime function of this system to ensure that the momentum of liquidity's growth is manitained and accellerated for the minority who own most of this world. The Snowdens, Assanges and such like are a mere distraction. Of course, when they get too uppity, they get dealt with, in co-ordinated fashion.

But to consider Snowden a risk to as deepely embedded a system as global capitalism is to be misled. There are no real threats to capitalism. The last one was the USSR. Cuba is a mere sideshow and of course, N Korea does not know his arse from his elbow.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby Ron Patterson » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 07:30:16

"Reserve Currency" is really a misnomer. Anyone or any country can buy anything on the international market without holding dollars in reserve. It takes milliseconds to convert any currency into dollars on the Forex. And it cost almost nothing, about 3 basis points for major currencies, slightly more for thinner traded currencies. A basis point is one cent per 100 dollars or 1/100th of one cent.

Daily volume on the Forex is about 5 trillion dollars.

The dollar is really the world's benchmark currency. That is it is the currency by which all currencies is measured. A common benchmark currency is needed in order to know the price of anything on the international market. The dollar will likely remain the world's benchmark currency unless we have a massive inflation of the dollar. If that happens then the world will have to find another benchmark currency.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 07:50:06

How long a digital conversion takes is irrelevant to anything worth considering. .3% of $1000 is a cup of coffee. .3% of $5 trillion is more than most countries GDP- a heck of a lot of money for jam. Most conversions (in that few milliseconds) are 2 stage conversions- you buy $USD for your holding currency, then use those $USD to buy your preference- that's why it's called reserve- in order to trade you must engage the reserve currency. It's only logical that the reserve currency will serve as the benchmark, but it's reserve status and fixed commodity trade contracts such as the famous Petrodollar which make the status a very important cash cow- not benchmark status.

As others have already pointed out- there is no viable alternative. The only one being bandied about is the reserve 'basket'- which probably for very good reason has even less trust than the devil we currently all have no choice but to bed with.

"In God We Trust" on every bill- because there ain't much else holding things in place. If the exchange position of the Dollar is lost- so is the ability of the US to print it's way out of trouble- then it's definitely time to head for the hills. Anyone who thinks things are getting rough now, well if and when this happens, we will be reminiscing about these as the good old days- that's for sure.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby americandream » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 08:01:36

Ron Patterson wrote:"Reserve Currency" is really a misnomer. Anyone or any country can buy anything on the international market without holding dollars in reserve. It takes milliseconds to convert any currency into dollars on the Forex. And it cost almost nothing, about 3 basis points for major currencies, slightly more for thinner traded currencies. A basis point is one cent per 100 dollars or 1/100th of one cent.

Daily volume on the Forex is about 5 trillion dollars.

The dollar is really the world's benchmark currency. That is it is the currency by which all currencies is measured. A common benchmark currency is needed in order to know the price of anything on the international market. The dollar will likely remain the world's benchmark currency unless we have a massive inflation of the dollar. If that happens then the world will have to find another benchmark currency.


It is no coincidence that the House of Saud elected to use the dollar as the medium for the sale of the worlds energy. The Saud's were an invention of the British Empire, remain clients of Anglo-Saxon capitalism and of course, with the capitulation of the Chinese to the system at the height of the Cold War, are in good company as clients go.
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Re: Petro Dollar to be Dethroned

Unread postby SteveO » Fri 20 Sep 2013, 08:14:05

Ron Patterson wrote:"
The dollar will likely remain the world's benchmark currency unless we have a massive inflation of the dollar. If that happens then the world will have to find another benchmark currency.


There is massive inflation (or perhaps dilution is a better term) in the dollar. The M1 shows it. It will take a loss of faith in the dollar to end is position as the benchmark/reserve currency.

The image is too wide, so I'm posting a link to the chart. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/da ... 30_378.png
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