Peak Oil = ?

by **BigBear** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 19:54:54

The present size of the U.S. bio-mass is directly porpertional to the amout of fetilizers and pesticides used to achieve these amounts. Both fertilizers and pesticides are produced from natural gas--which is in decline--a decline that will hasten as it is used more and more to replace lessening oil production. Bio-mass fuels will be used like the tar sands will be used--but never in the amounts needed to sustain society --worldwide--as we presently know it.

by **BiGG** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 19:54:59

killJOY,

Quote: "Currently, the United States consumes about 120 billion gallons of automotive fuel each year. Fuel ethanol from corn is blended with 10 percent of this gasoline to improve octane ratings and burn cleaner.

"There are enough agricultural and timber residues to completely replace gasoline in the U.S. and in many other countries," Ingram said. "Brazil has used pure ethanol as a primary fuel for more than 20 years."

Corn & trees re-grow ya know? Trees are crop where I live and they replant them as soon as they cut existing ones, they leave most of the tree laying on the ground to rot as they do it.

by **killJOY** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 20:02:17

"In terms of renewable fuels, ethanol is the worst solution," Patzek says. "It has the highest energy cost with the least benefit."

Ethanol is produced by fermenting renewable crops like corn or sugarcane. It may sound green, Patzek says, but that's because many scientists are not looking at the whole picture. According to his research, more fossil energy is used to produce ethanol than the energy contained within it.

http://www.energybulletin.net/5062.html

It ain't "killJOY" for nuthin.

by **BiGG** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 20:18:03

killJOY wrote:
"In terms of renewable fuels, ethanol is the worst solution," Patzek says. "It has the highest energy cost with the least benefit."

Ethanol is produced by fermenting renewable crops like corn or sugarcane. It may sound green, Patzek says, but that's because many scientists are not looking at the whole picture. According to his research, more fossil energy is used to produce ethanol than the energy contained within it.

It ain't "killJOY" for nuthin.

That is completely debunked in the second article from what I see, check it out!

Quote debunking killJOY’s link: Ingram's microorganism produces a high yield of ethanol from biomass such as sugar cane residues, rice hulls, forestry and wood wastes and other organic materials.

"Until we developed this new technology, the chemical makeup of biomass prevented it from being used to make ethanol economically," Ingram said. "Biomass is a much cheaper source of ethanol than traditional feedstocks such as corn and cane syrup.

by **Cyrus** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 20:37:02

BIGG, you are being WAAAAAAY too optimistic from what I can see. By the time a project like this could come online, oil would already be in steep decline, thus an energy shortage and decreased metal extraction, and..you get the picure. Also id like to point out it said 15% by 2030...well by 2030 oil will be a trickle and may I ask where the other 85% of energy will come from. It isn't going to be oil! This maybe could have worked 20 some years ago..but I think we are too far down the line for this to help much. As someone said earliar, just like the tar sands.

by **SidneyTawl** » Thu 28 Apr 2005, 22:02:07

WELLLL, the really good news I can get from bigs article on the increased ethynol percentage is really saying an increase in alchol production from the yeasts, which will yield more alchol which leads to more ethynol.

Even if they can't get enough for running a technology company we sure gonna be able to have "CHEAP BEER" for a good while if this is true.

Why drive when you can drink.

by **0mar** » Fri 29 Apr 2005, 13:15:26

Biodiesal is better.

Agriculture is dependant on natural gas (in decline here buddy)

Doesn't solve the problem of growth. We'll be fucked in 10-20 years when demand outstrips supply again.

by **mididoctors** » Fri 29 Apr 2005, 21:05:37

not diusmissing bio fuels but this stat seems a bit off

"Currently, the United States consumes about 120 billion gallons of automotive fuel each year. Fuel ethanol from corn is blended with 10 percent of this gasoline to improve octane ratings and burn cleaner."

thats roughly 3Gb

thats not right?

EIA has it around 12-15mbd

so 12- 15 000 000 X 42 X 365 = 180-220 billion gallons

Boris
london

by **0mar** » Fri 29 Apr 2005, 21:55:03

mididoctors wrote:not diusmissing bio fuels but this stat seems a bit off

"Currently, the United States consumes about 120 billion gallons of automotive fuel each year. Fuel ethanol from corn is blended with 10 percent of this gasoline to improve octane ratings and burn cleaner."

thats roughly 3Gb

thats not right?

EIA has it around 12-15mbd

so 12- 15 000 000 X 42 X 365 = 180-220 billion gallons

Boris
london

Not all oil is used for transportation

by **mididoctors** » Sun 01 May 2005, 08:46:59

0mar wrote:
mididoctors wrote:not diusmissing bio fuels but this stat seems a bit off

"Currently, the United States consumes about 120 billion gallons of automotive fuel each year. Fuel ethanol from corn is blended with 10 percent of this gasoline to improve octane ratings and burn cleaner."

thats roughly 3Gb

thats not right?

EIA has it around 12-15mbd

so 12- 15 000 000 X 42 X 365 = 180-220 billion gallons

Boris
london

Not all oil is used for transportation

i was using the figures for petrol and diesel supplied to the US markets

the total oil consumed is around 20mbd

Boris
London

Peak Oil = ?

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