Revi wrote:I would say so. We complain about having to get up, go to the fridge and get our food out of it, pre-packaged and ready for consumption. Wait until we have to grow, cook and consume our food without any fossil fuel. There will be a lot of people who will just cluster near the feeding stations, but some will figure out how to do it again.
AdamB wrote:Some never forgot. The cure to peak oil, as generally advocated by the collapse club? See below. I wonder why so few, who honestly believe this is where the world is headed, aren't swelling their ranks by the millions already?
vtsnowedin wrote:AdamB wrote:Some never forgot. The cure to peak oil, as generally advocated by the collapse club? See below. I wonder why so few, who honestly believe this is where the world is headed, aren't swelling their ranks by the millions already?
Probably because walking behind that plow is a seven plus mile walk per acre and you can't text and plow at the same time.
Also enough land to feed the mules could be used to grow a bio -diesel convertible crop and run a more productive tractor.
Revi wrote:Whatever Adam B. At least you respond to things. I think we'll lose a lot of big ag when things get bad.
ROCKMAN wrote:
Obviously that $133 billion wasn't grown by hundreds of thousands of farmers tending 20 acre plots. And it wouldn't be just less production but also at higher prices. So even if commercial ag can maintain output as we stubble down the PO path the cost will increase. And that's in a world where many are priced out to some degree of the market place TODAY.
Revi wrote:Big ag depends on cheap energy. If the price of diesel goes up it wrecks the whole model. I am not saying that it's going to be wonderful to lose it, but the era of cheap food is coming to an end. Those small farms aren't going to be a great place to be either, but at least they will feed some people. The vast majority are going to be in trouble. Big ag will continue, but they are commodity farms, and need to be given subsidies to survive. They sell wholesale into the market. Smaller farmers usually sell retail and can't make as much food.
onlooker wrote:Revi, all Adam has is the repeating meme of so far the timing if predictions of Doom have been faulty therefore the reasoning behind such predictions is also.
Revi wrote:Big ag depends on cheap energy.
Revi wrote: If the price of diesel goes up it wrecks the whole model.
Revi wrote: I am not saying that it's going to be wonderful to lose it, but the era of cheap food is coming to an end.
vtsnowedin wrote:How does a price increase of fuel "wreck the model"? Scarce high priced fuel and fertilizer will crowd out the least efficient farmers and cause production numbers to fall and unit sale prices to rise which will eliminate the need for any subsidies. All farms are commodity farms just some small ones use their production to subsist on and their production numbers are much smaller.
ralfy wrote:vtsnowedin wrote:How does a price increase of fuel "wreck the model"? Scarce high priced fuel and fertilizer will crowd out the least efficient farmers and cause production numbers to fall and unit sale prices to rise which will eliminate the need for any subsidies. All farms are commodity farms just some small ones use their production to subsist on and their production numbers are much smaller.
It wrecks the model because a global capitalist system with a growing human population, a growing middle class, and increasing credit require cheap oil, and with that cheap food.
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