[vtsnowedin]

TheHillsInfo

The present situation is a battle between extraction and processing. The price has fallen as low as the extraction portion of the industry can tolerate without shutting in production, and the price is higher than the processing side can afford. The processing portion is now selling finished product for $1.72/ gallon that cost them $2.08 in raw crude to produce.

How many times this week have you posted this same flat out lie?

Why don't you give us a link V that directly refutes what Short just posted here if not your comment is just innuendo

I have already repeatedly done so.

[AdamB]

"Can we stop pimping and hawking reports that aren't worth the time to read them please? Find the Viagra and Amway advertising section, and put the claptrap there."

Can we stop with your pathetic, and child like whining, and attempts to escape reality.

Sure. Stop pimping ETP "Gee I'm dumb as a stump when it comes to underlying factors of oil production" and we'll kill two birds with one stone.

[ROCKMAN]

vt - I've also posted many linked facts. But they'll continue not addressing them because they have no credible support. All they can do is repeated respond "I'm right and you're wrong.

But it does allow us to advertise our smarts so it's OK by me. LOL.

[AdamB]

TheHillsInfo

The present situation is a battle between extraction and processing. The price has fallen as low as the extraction portion of the industry can tolerate without shutting in production, and the price is higher than the processing side can afford. The processing portion is now selling finished product for $1.72/ gallon that cost them $2.08 in raw crude to produce.

How many times this week have you posted this same flat out lie?

Why don't you give us a link V that directly refutes what Short just posted here if not your comment is just innuendo

Prove a negative? Gee...what a clever challenge....

[donstewart]

Steve Keen on Economics and Energy
The Australian/ British economist Steve Keen delivers a 30 minute dissertation on energy and the economy. He has consulted with Robert Ayres, the physicist/ economist. The talk is aimed at people versed in economic production functions, but is understandable by those who have wrestled with the basics of the ETP model (whether enthusiastically or disparagingly). Those who believe everything revolves around money won't like it.

Steve begins with a ringing endorsement of the laws of thermodynamics, which are ignored by most economists.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2017- ... roduction/

Don Stewart

[AdamB]

Steve begins with a ringing endorsement of the laws of thermodynamics, which are ignored by most economists.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2017- ... roduction/

Don Stewart

Youtube video experts!! Love'im!! You don't even need footnotes or anything, you can just like SAY STUFF, and those looking for a rationalization will jump to it like white on rice!

For the record, it took 10 seconds to find discussions on economics and energy supply that refute the premise of the article referenced...to whit:

"Economic theory has failed to incorporate the role of energy in production for two centuries since the Physiocrats."

http://www.rff.org/files/sharepoint/Wor ... -03-01.pdf

[onlooker]

So Adam, according to you Economics which is nothing but a pseudoscience trumps biophysical realities and laws. Good do know that awesome epiphany. Not.

[shortonoil]

"Why don't you give us a link V that directly refutes what Short just posted here if not your comment is just innuendo"

We aren't giving links to this to prevent from insulting our readers. This is a calculation that any 6th grader should be able to preform if they can pass their SOLs. Our general readers are way passed such juvenile abilities. You will either have to do a deep search on the internet or learn some basic arithmetic. The only functions required here are addition, multiplication and division. The basic EIA data links have been presented here at least 20 times. We won't further pollute this thread by re-posting them here again, but they can be found at this link:

TheHillsInfo

We may post those calculations the next time it comes around to be "kind to idiot week".

[vtsnowedin]

Here for the umpteeth time is the link to the EIA data that proves there is no loss of 55 percent or even 10 percent of the crude input into the refinery process. Note that the total production of salable products is 20.065 million barrels a day for 2016 and that includes 1.108 million barrels a day of refinery gains.
You have to question the intelligence of anyone that can read that and continue to swallow anything shorty is putting forth.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_re ... blpd_a.htm

[AdamB]

So Adam, according to you Economics which is nothing but a pseudoscience trumps biophysical realities and laws. Good do know that awesome epiphany. Not.

Strawman much? You can't even come CLOSE to doing it correctly, and seem to have forgotten my point was just refuting the obviously erroneous claim of Don's reference.

[AdamB]

Here for the umpteeth time is the link to the EIA data that proves there is no loss of 55 percent or even 10 percent of the crude input into the refinery process.

Using real live experts against ETP'ers really isn't fair. I mean...they KNOW stuff...

Note that the total production of salable products is 20.065 million barrels a day for 2016 and that includes 1.108 million barrels a day of refinery gains.
You have to question the intelligence of anyone that can read that and continue to swallow anything shorty is putting forth.

Makes you wonder about how far people will go to keep the $$ coming in.

[marmico]

The basic EIA data links have been presented here at least 20 times.

Where is the 2016 missing 8.41 million barrels per day of finished motor gasoline (including ethanol blend)*, Bozo Bunsen Burner Bedford? The ETP guru is a retard.

* Refinery & Blender Net Production of 9.989 million barrels per day minus Refinery Net Production of 1.577 million barrels per day

[shortonoil]

"Where is the 2016 missing 8.41 million barrels per day of finished motor gasoline (including ethanol blend)*"

As usual, you are crazier than a rat trapped in a sewer pipe. The EIA data is very explicit.

Refinery Net Production
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_ref ... mbbl_m.htm

Refinery & Blender Net Input
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_in ... mbbl_m.htm

The last troll complained that there was no link: So we found one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic

Take the two numbers provided by the EIA and divide Output by Input. That gives yield. Divide that number into the latest $/barrel quote to get crude cost per barrel of finished product of output. Subtract from that the wholesale price of gasoline. The US refining industry is now spending more on the crude that they use than they are getting for the finished product.

The interesting thing is that the trolls want to argue over this obvious fact. "Someone" out there believes that changing peoples perception of reality is going to change reality. This is a very good example of just how far down the rabbit hole our society has descended. On command a number of people are now expected to just curl up and die. According to that "Someone" using your own brain is now considered a crime; attempting to protect yourself is proof that you are incompetent, and trying to understand what is happening can result in nothing but an exercise in futility. If one wants to summit to such egregious, and hostile conditioning they have earned the sealing of their own fate. We have constructed a society that is no longer concerned with the well being of the individual. You are on your own!

[onlooker]

Interesting to see how the deniers and trolls respond to what are obvious facts from official published figures. I did the calculation, simple math and got the result that Short said one would. Try and spin those facts naysayers

[marmico]

As usual, you are crazier than a rat trapped in a sewer pipe.

You are so full of shit it beggars belief. The ETP guru is a thermodynamic retard.

Where is the missing 8.4 million barrels per day of E10? Maybe it flows out of onlooker's empty cranial cavity.

[ROCKMAN]

Looker - " Divide that number into the latest $/barrel quote to get crude cost per barrel of finished product of output. Subtract from that the wholesale price of gasoline. The US refining industry is now spending more on the crude that they use than they are getting for the finished product.". Not sure but it seems you keep missing the critical point: all the numbers being used assume that refineries only sell the gasoline made from oil and throw away the rest of the products. IOW the cost of 100% of the crude input is being compared to the price of LESS THEN HALF THE VALUE of all the products being produced from that oil. So obviously the value of the output is less the the cost of the oil input.

As you've seen I typically try to avoid insults but since we're talking baby math continuing to ignore this obvious FACT is simply LYING since a 10 yo child would understand the point just made.

So here's your last chance to redeem yourself in front of our semi-disfunctional family here: is Shorty's number wrong because he's only using the value of the gasoline output and not all the other products made from every bbl of oil that is refined. Products which I posted earlier in great detail. A post that continues to be ignored.

If you want to say his assumption is correct then please explain why the global oil refining industry is KNOWINGLY loosing 100's of $BILLIONS every year.

[onlooker]

RM, those other products are not liquid fuel. They are feedstock, one of many that enter other industrial manufacturing operations (to produce plastic etc). But those other industrial operation must run on the liquid fuel output from the refinery. Only the liquid fuel output from the refinery powers the economy that ultimately pays the refinery costs.

+1

[marmico]

Blah, blah. Bozo Bunsen Burner Bedford is a retard.



Where is the missing 8.4 million barrels per day of E10?