WildRose wrote:Keith, which incident was that? It looks like Hinton.
ROCKMAN wrote:Rose - Took a while but I finally found the answer: At what speed does oil move through a pipeline?
"Product moves from three to eight miles per hour depending upon line size, pressure, and other factors such as the density and viscosity of the liquid being transported. At these rates, it takes from 14 to 22 days to move liquids from Houston, Texas to New York City."
So even with the loading/unloading times a train oil can move much faster. So given the volatility of the oil market getting oil delivered in several days instead of 2 to 3 weeks can be a big advantage.
Pik wrote:Regarding the speed of oil through a pipe;
If you were to take the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline as an example, it will be 1,100 kilometers long with a diameter of 91 centimeters which means that at any one time it will contain roughly 4.5 million barrels of diluted bitumen. If 525,000 barrels are to arrive in Kitimat everyday that would mean a speed of about 5.3 kilometers per hour. It would take 1000 rail cars arriving daily in Kitimat to match that kind of volume. Rail cars might be more versatile but when it comes to sheer volume rail cars can't compete with pipelines.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
ROCKMAN wrote:Newfie - And I think that "mixed blessing" is what's helping to polarize the public perhaps more than it’s ever been. If you were drawing a $150k/yr paycheck from your job at the refinery you might say some odors "smell good". Or if you ran the local Walmart where many of those refinery workers spent their paychecks you might not be bothered by the smell. But if you had just retired to your dream home on the shore line just down wind you might say it stinks.
There's no "perfect solution". Never has been and never will be IMHO. And if society continues on its course of 100% black or white evaluation of our relationship with energy production the situation will just become more contentious.
Pik wrote:I get the feeling that the oil and gas industry is holding a gun to our collective heads tellling us that if we don't give them pipelines they are going to put our communities at risk by trundelling upwards of ten to fifteen unit trains loaded with crude through our towns and cities everyday. In other words they are willing to place their profits above the healh and saftey of the citizens of this country. It seems to me the message that they are sending is if you reject our pipelines your town could be the next to burn to the ground!
I reject the notion that if Keystone, Kinder Morgan and Northern Gateway are not built we will just simply ship by rail. If Steven Harper expects to acheive his dream of 4 million barrels / day leaving the Alberta by 2020 he'll need pipelines, rail just isn't going to cut it.
So I wonder what if all of these pipelines are cancelled and Mr Harper cannot realize his dream. What then? Maybe the Alberta government should stop rubber stamping all these tarsands projects until we figure this out.
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