NEW! Members Only Forums!

Access more articles, news & discussion by becoming a PeakOil.com Member.
Register Today...
It's FREE!


Login



Peak Oil is You


Donate Bitcoins :-)


North American Fuel Shortage Reports

Discussions on Energy (only) news. This includes oil, coal, gas., etc.

Moderator: Tanada

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby dsula » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 14:31:40

nobodypanic wrote:and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links.
for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store?

Absolutely and totally wrong. If the poor sabs can't go to work, the grocery chain will have to pay more salery so the saps can get to work. Any goverment control will distort the market and make it less efficient, encouraging waste. Who can pay for it should get it.
User avatar
dsula
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed 13 Jun 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 14:33:39

[quote="neocone"link Betcha our newly socialist powers will do the exact opposite of what is right: Ration the thing instead of letting those who can afford it buy it at will. I have the feeling Freedom of the Market ain't that free anymore... to paraphrase the need for the Patriot act.[/quote]
Oh! I get it! You must be talking about the Bush/Cheney administration! Their motto: “Socialism for Big Business; social darwinism for everyone else”.
Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
User avatar
SILENTTODD
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat 06 May 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Tustin, CA

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby beamofthewave » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 14:34:15

If we have good government it doesnt fail, what does fail is letting only rich people survive. And yes I am my brothers keeper, what sort of life is it when you let babies die because there is no power for the hospital and there are no doctors in the emergency room because there was no gas or only the really rich could afford the gas so the nurses could not get to work? If it is all about me, if honestly that is all Americans are about then when martial law comes I will sign on with Halibuton and be willing to hurt my fellow citizens. That is exactly what the poor in Rome did once they finally figured out the rich absolutley cared nothing about their fellow citizens and in my humble opinion Cicero got exactly what he had coming.
User avatar
beamofthewave
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun 10 Aug 2008, 02:00:00

Re: North American Fuel Shortage Reports

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 14:51:56

biofuel13 wrote:two stories hot off the wires: link and this one too: link
(sorry don't know how to shorten linkys)
edited to add second link

1st click on this Image which is on the tools above.

Enter the address you want the link to connect to and hit enter

then enter the text that you want shown like "link" and press enter.

Then you are done :)
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
User avatar
wisconsin_cur
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4578
Joined: Thu 10 May 2007, 02:00:00
Location: 45 degrees North. 883 feet above sealevel.

Re: North American Fuel Shortage Reports

Unread postby Byron100 » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:00:42

Report from the field:

I took Marta today to run a few errands - bookstore, lunch at Subway, and two banks (yes, one of them is WaMu...LOL.) For the first time, I saw lines at gas stations - the 20% or so that were open. The rest of them I passed were either 100% bagged, or they had diesel only. There seemed to be no shortage of diesel, but most stations that were open had regular grade only. Prices ranged from $3.97 (a QT, very long times...gnarly-looking) to $4.29. Riding along, I would see 3-4 more blank stations, then another one with long lines.

On the final stretch home on the bus, after the QT, I passed six dry gas stations in a row, and then I came to my stop, where the Chevron is. Closed yesterday, they have regular today for $4.09, same as before. And yes, there were long lines. The thing that makes it interesting is that it's an actual *service station / garage* a la 1969. It's one of the few service stations in this city that offer full service, for about .55 cents more per gallon. This small, humble-looking establishment doesn't have a large forecourt at all - just two rows, 2 sets of pumps for the self and one set for the full, so that's 6 hoses going at once. The were smart enough to cone off the entrance off the main throughfare, and allowed entry only on the rear side. When I walked past there, it looked like a Gordian knot of cars, encircling the garage itself. I mean, almost every square inch of pavement of that place was occupied by a car, with driver, waiting for gas. A real sight to behold. :shock:

This is when it's time for me to say "no thank you" and leave my car parked. It's very, very clear there isn't nearly enough gas to meet the demand, and there's no way of knowing when it's going to get better. And my Breeze card has suddenly become one of my most precious possessions. :-D

Could a state-wide holiday be in store for us next week?

Stay tuned....
Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
User avatar
Byron100
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu 08 Sep 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby nobodypanic » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:05:47

neocone wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:price of gas dropping here in VA and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links. for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store?
Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want. I despise the idiots who are in this "better red than dead" mentality. The governement has already clearly failed... why give it even more means to screw up????

the markets are why we are here in the first place. they do not work as well as advertised. they are short sighted, stupid, lack the ability to properly prioritize, and react too slowly to crisis.
User avatar
nobodypanic
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon 02 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby nobodypanic » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:09:13

dsula wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links. for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store?
Absolutely and totally wrong. If the poor sabs can't go to work, the grocery chain will have to pay more salery so the saps can get to work. Any goverment control will distort the market and make it less efficient, encouraging waste. Who can pay for it should get it.

you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet?
User avatar
nobodypanic
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon 02 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby dsula » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:13:14

nobodypanic wrote: you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet?

you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages.
User avatar
dsula
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed 13 Jun 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby HEADER_RACK » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:21:32

dsula wrote:
nobodypanic wrote: you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet?
you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages.

You don't get it. So you pay them a higher salary in order for them to afford gas to get to work. Everyone gets paid more to get gas to go to work.
Now everyone can afford gas again. Not enough gas to go around again . Price rises again on gas. People can't afford to go to work again. Are you going to give them another pay raise? Merry-go-round has to stop somewhere.
Nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing left to lose but has everything left to gain.
User avatar
HEADER_RACK
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Thu 15 Feb 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby nobodypanic » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:24:27

dsula wrote:
nobodypanic wrote: you won't get anything. you know why? cause the poor sap that runs the cash register at the gas station won't be able to get there. get the picture yet?
you don't get it, do you? If I own the gas station I have a choice. Either not sell anything at all or pay the poor fellow MORE salery so he can get to work. I will of course then also increase my prices as to cover my additional expenses. Get it yet ? In a true free market there is no shortage of anything, everything can be purchased at a price. In a controlled market, there are shortages.

if there isn't enough gas for everyone to get around, then when you, and everyone else raises wages (which i doubt would happen quickly enough), there still won't be enough gas for everyone to get around. your scheme relies not only on your worker having more money relative to some other worker, so he can buy the gas that would otherwise go to that person, but that there is still discretionary demand to wipe out.

edit: header said it better than me. :P
User avatar
nobodypanic
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon 02 Jun 2008, 02:00:00

Re: North American Fuel Shortage Reports

Unread postby Roy » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:25:02

:)
Last edited by Roy on Sun 12 Oct 2008, 09:06:39, edited 1 time in total.
Roy
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1357
Joined: Fri 18 Jun 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Getting in touch with my Inner Redneck

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby dsula » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:29:51

HEADER_RACK wrote: You don't get it. So you pay them a higher salary in order for them to afford gas to get to work. Everyone gets paid more to get gas to go to work. Now everyone can afford gas again. Not enough gas to go around again . Price rises again on gas. People can't afford to go to work again. Are you going to give them another pay raise? Merry-go-round has to stop somewhere.

Now look at that, do you think the world is that simple? Maybe I'm a smart enterpreneur. Maybe I have creative ideas? Maybe I have a proposal for my clerk: Listen, gas is expensive and I can't pay you more for gas, but I need you to work. I propose a deal. I pay you a big bonus so you can relocate within walking distance of the gas station. Does that sound good? It's better than you loosing your job and me having to close the station, won't you agree?"

Oh there are so many possibilities. But you're right people without ideas that expect business as usual will have a hard time. THERE ARE NO SHORTAGES IN A FREE MARKET.
User avatar
dsula
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed 13 Jun 2007, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:34:04

neocone wrote:Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want.

How about everyone get their 4 gals/week stamps and those who can do without them are free to resell them for whatever the market will bear?
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
NeoPeasant
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue 12 Oct 2004, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:34:10

dsula wrote:
HEADER_RACK wrote: You don't get it. So you pay them a higher salary in order for them to afford gas to get to work. Everyone gets paid more to get gas to go to work.
Now everyone can afford gas again. Not enough gas to go around again . Price rises again on gas. People can't afford to go to work again. Are you going to give them another pay raise? Merry-go-round has to stop somewhere.
Now look at that, do you think the world is that simple? Maybe I'm a smart enterpreneur. Maybe I have creative ideas? Maybe I have a proposal for my clerk: Listen, gas is expensive and I can't pay you more for gas, but I need you to work. I propose a deal. I pay you a big bonus so you can relocate within walking distance of the gas station. Does that sound good? It's better than you loosing your job and me having to close the station, won't you agree?"
Oh there are so many possibilities. But you're right people without ideas that expect business as usual will have a hard time. THERE ARE NO SHORTAGES IN A FREE MARKET.

I guess you haven't gotten the memo the US Treasury Dept and SEC have rescinded the free market and want a bailout.
It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
User avatar
UncoveringTruths
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu 04 Nov 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 15:36:56

Image

Still not too late to get that 1st, 2nd or even 3rd bicycle(I own 4). Still a large selection and many dealers out there waiting for your business.

Above is the Bicycle store once owned by a couple of brothers who also had some success in the Aviation industry.
Skeptical scrutiny in both Science and Religion is the means by which deep thoughts are winnowed from deep nonsense-Carl Sagan
User avatar
SILENTTODD
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Sat 06 May 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Tustin, CA

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby aflurry » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 17:39:34

neocone wrote:you don't wanna a massive riot situation in Hell A for exemple.

you can't riot if you can't get to the riot.
User avatar
aflurry
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Mon 28 Mar 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby TWilliam » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 18:15:59

neocone wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:price of gas dropping here in VA and let me say that rationing IS the correct thing to do once shortages hit. the system we have is only as strong as some of it's weaker links. for example, what good does it do anyone if the owner of say a grocery chain could buy all the gas he wants, but the poor saps who unload the food delivery trucks can't get to work to get the produce into the store?
Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want. I despise the idiots who are in this "better red than dead" mentality. The governement has already clearly failed... why give it even more means to screw up????

What you, my friend, fail to realize is that the government failure of which you speak is precisely a failure to REGULATE THE MARKET, especially the financial markets. The alphabet soup, 'spread the risk' Ponzi scheme of CDOs, MBSs and all the other 'toxic paper' that was allowed to proliferate throughout the world marketplace was only able to commence as a result of the DE-regulation of the banking and credit industries. The predictable result is the same as what always happens when greed is given free reign; it ultimately kills the goose --destroying itself in the process-- which is what we are now beginning to witness.
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
User avatar
TWilliam
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 2592
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby MattSavinar » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 18:48:51

dsula wrote: THERE ARE NO SHORTAGES IN A FREE MARKET

In 4 years of following this board, I don't think I've laughed as hard as I just did.
User avatar
MattSavinar
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun 09 May 2004, 02:00:00

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 18:53:48

MattSavinar wrote:
dsula wrote: THERE ARE NO SHORTAGES IN A FREE MARKET.
In 4 years of following this board, I don't think I've laughed as hard as I just did.

+1
User avatar
vision-master
Master
Master
 
Posts: 8870
Joined: Thu 18 May 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Out of this World

Re: Massive fuel shortages imminent?

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 26 Sep 2008, 19:08:46

NeoPeasant wrote:
neocone wrote:Dude let the markets work and people be free to pay what they want.
How about everyone get their 4 gals/week stamps and those who can do without them are free to resell them for whatever the market will bear?

Something like that would be interesting - a rationed free market. With the internet (craigslist etc) and easy and secure payment systems (paypal etc) it could be a very fluid and efficient market. A good system would reward those that have or can migrate to a lower energy lifestyle.
User avatar
dinopello
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4862
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 02:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

PreviousNext

Return to Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests