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New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 24 Nov 2014, 15:09:48

Timo, Thanks for your thoughts but please don't rule out the US or Europe just yet. FCV will come down in price and are predicted to be competitive with ICE vehicles during the next decade:

Toyota's fuel cell goal: Big cost cutting

Toyota Motor Corp.'s top fuel cell engineer predicts the automaker will slash the cost of the next hydrogen-fueled powertrain to between one-third and one-fourth the cost of the current system, which debuted last week in the Mirai fuel cell sedan.

That's an ambitious goal. But it represents a slower pace in cost-reduction than that seen in the Mirai.

The cost of the Mirai's fuel cell is about one-twentieth the cost of the system that Toyota used in the previous-generation fuel cell vehicle, which debuted in 2008.

Yasuhiro Nonobe, general manager for fuel cell vehicle system design, said continuing that pace of dramatic cost cuts is unlikely. Nonetheless, his team has set a cost target of as little as a quarter of the cost of today's system for the company's next-generation fuel cell system, he said.

That would debut in five or six years, Nonobe added. Toyota is aiming for around 2020, partly to showcase the futuristic green-car technology at the Tokyo Olympics that year.


Toyota engineers say more affordable technologies will help them reach their goal of selling tens of thousands of fuel cell vehicles a year around 2020. And by 2025, they want the price gap between fuel cell cars and conventional gasoline vehicles to be the same as that between hybrid vehicles and gasoline ones.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Timo » Mon 24 Nov 2014, 16:24:43

When Exxon, and BP, and Shell, and the rest of Big Oil start investing in cheaper ways to replace gasoline with hydrogen as the primary fuel for cars, then, and only then, will i believe that FCVs have any sustainable future. It is a technology that exists today, granted, but FCV tech is miles behind PEV tech, and is progressing at a slower pace. PEVs will soon become a viable alternative for more then 50% of the auto-buying public. PEVs will have an established place in the market by the time FCVs become a viable option for the public to consider. Being able to produce energy for, and charge your own vehicle at home will be the preferred choice for car buyers over the alternative of continuing the current practice of forking over our money to Big Hydrogen (Big Oil) for the fuel we need to make our cars move. Why continue the status quo by simply substituting one fuel for another when we can eliminate the need for any fuel, altogether?
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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Timo » Mon 24 Nov 2014, 16:48:53

pstarr wrote:Actually FCV research has mostly dried up because hydrogen is not an energy source (produced from NG), but rather it is a energy storage medium. And not a very practical energy storage medium. Given the expense to compress it, and the molecular nature of hydrogen and proclivity for sneaking through metallic structure, ie leaking from pipelines and tanks.

Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai must have missed that memo.
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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 24 Nov 2014, 16:58:21

It's hard to predict which alternative vehicle will eventually dominate: FCV or PEV's. Meanwhile several major auto companies are pressing ahead with commercial production of FCV's.

Stiff competition pressures Hyundai to maintain edge in fuel-cell cars

Hyundai Motor Co., one of the leading pioneers in fuel-cell cars, is coming under pressure to maintain its edge as rivals start launching new hydrogen vehicles, industry sources said Monday.

South Korea's largest carmaker claims to be the first company in the world to begin mass production of a fuel-cell electric vehicle (FCEV), with the Tucson in Feb. 2013. The compact zero-emission SUV helped Hyundai be tapped by the European Commission as the pilot company for an initiative to promote fuel-cell cars, and see the carmaker supply public agencies in Sweden and Denmark.

Starting this year, it has started leasing the Tucson FCEV in selected areas of the United States. The three-year, US$499 per month lease covers all fuel recharging costs and maintenance.

Despite the head start, Toyota Motor Corp. has said it will start selling FCEVs to ordinary drivers starting in December, making it the first company to sell such cars commercially.

The price of the Toyota Mirai starts at roughly 7.23 million yen (US$61,500), which is significantly cheaper than the Tucson fuel-cell model that costs 150 million won (US$135,200).

The Japanese carmaker said it aims to sell some 400 of the small, four-seater cars in its home market and places like Britain, Germany and Denmark by the end of 2015. Many European countries have started building hydrogen charging stations that are critical if FCEVs are to take root as a viable form of everyday transportation.

Besides Toyota, Honda Motor Co. said it plans to market its own five-seat FCEV in 2015, with Audi unveiling the A7 Sportback H-Tron at the ongoing Los Angeles Auto Show. Germany's Daimler Group, which controls such brands as Mercedes-Benz, said it too is in the process of making an FCEV.

In contrast, Hyundai confirmed it sold a total of 190 vehicles in the last two years, with only two being sold in its home market.

The company has said the high costs of fuel cells that use precious metals are restricting sales, although it too is contemplating commercial sales by around 2020.

Regarding Hyundai's inability to really capitalize on its head start, an industry watcher stressed the company needs to do more to market its cars and bring down prices.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 24 Nov 2014, 17:08:47

VW missed that memo too.

Volkswagen Golf SportWagen HyMotion unveiled

Volkswagen says the HyMotion Golf is the power source of the future, with hydrogen andoxygen combined in the fuel cell to form pure water. Energy is released in this "cold combustion" process - drive energy for an electric motor that turns with zero emissions.

The hydrogen is stored in four carbon-fibre tanks, which are located in a space-saving way under the body. Their fuel capacity enables a driving range of 310 miles, with refilling of the tank taking just three minutes. The front wheel drive concept accelerates to 62 mph in 10 seconds flat.

The key drive components of the Golf SportWagen HyMotion were developed by Volkswagen Group Research in Germany. The fuel cell system, which has a driving power of 100 kW, was conceptualised at the Volkswagen Technology Centre for Electric Traction. In addition, the concept car has a high-voltage lithium-ion battery, which stores the kinetic energy recovered from regenerative braking, assists in the starting phase of the fuel cell and adds a dynamic boost to the maximum acceleration. The fuel cell andbattery drive an electric motor adapted from the e-Golf.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 25 Nov 2014, 15:52:34

Here's an interesting report by the Chairman of Toyota on FCV's.

Toyota on hydrogen fuel cell technology: “Simply a better battery”

On Monday, November 17, 2014, Toyota invited Treehugger and several other select journalists from around the world to Newport Beach, California, to witness the unveiling of their long anticipated, finally road-ready, hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (FCV), dubbed Mirai.


We had the good fortune and honor to be seated with the Chairman of Toyota Motor Corporation (and father of the Prius), Takeshi Uchiyamada at dinner. During a lively conversation, you see just how passionate and committed the man who made hybrid technology a widely accepted, mass-market reality is about the future of mobility in the world.


Chairman Uchiyamada has said that hydrogen fuel cell technology is “simply a better battery.” And that’s what’s so important to understand—FCVs are really just electric vehicles powered by a battery, just like the EVs on the road today. The major difference is they carry their refueling source on board, rather than from a plug in the wall. (So maybe calling them FCEVs would be more accurate.)


FCVs Advantages Over EVs:
• Greater driving range. The Mirai has a range of 300 miles when both on-board hydrogen tanks are full, double or triple the range of most EVs

• Faster charge/refuel. FCVs can be fully refueled in 3-5 mins, about the same time to refuel a standard gasoline vehicle. EV batteries take 8 hours to fully charge, and a DC quick charge will give you 80% in roughly 20 minutes

• Fuel cell technology can be scaled to power buses, semi trucks, even heavy machinery. Toyota is already using it on buses in Japan, and to power forklifts at their factories. While battery-powered EVs can also scale up, FCV could turn out to be more flexible, in part because refilling a hydrogen tank - even a big one - 
should be faster than recharging a massive battery.
• It can power your home. Hydrogen fuel cells are already in use as an alternative to gas powered generators, and the Mirai has an optional “out” port that allows you to supply electrical power the average sized home for about a week when the Mirai’s tanks are full, and indefinitely if you still have a supply of hydrogen available. Handy in the aftermath of a storm or blackout.

Keep in mind, none of the auto manufacturers see FCVs as a replacement to EVs—or to hybrids or gas powered vehicles for that matter. They are simply another alternative, another choice to make depending on your personal needs, driving habits and lifestyle.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 26 Nov 2014, 17:30:14

2015 Contest to Develop Innovative Hydrogen Fueling Station Business Models and Financial Analysis

Today, the Hydrogen Education Foundation announced the 11th annual Hydrogen Student Design Contest, which will challenge student teams to develop business and financing models for hydrogen fueling stations. Finalists will be asked to pitch their plans to investors. Registration for the Contest, which is supported by the U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, is open at www.hydrogencontest.org until January 16, 2015.

"Expansion of hydrogen refueling infrastructure is one of the great challenges facing mass deployment of fuel cell vehicles. In California, Japan and Germany, the combination of public and industry funding has jump-started initial station construction," said Jeff Serfass, President of the Hydrogen Education Foundation. "But public financing is not a sustainable business model for successful adoption of these zero emission cars; rather, this long term transition requires hydrogen fueling stations to be funded by private investment."

Through the Contest, multidisciplinary student teams will demonstrate their talents in business, finance, engineering, public planning, architecture, marketing, and entrepreneurship. In previous years, teams have designed fueling stations, airport systems and green buildings - all using hydrogen.

The top teams will be invited to present their design to a panel of industry professionals and investors, and the winning teams will be able to present their approach at a major industry conference. A full description of prize packages can be found online at www.HydrogenContest.org


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 27 Nov 2014, 14:28:07

Scientists predict green energy revolution after incredible new graphene discoveries

A recently discovered form of carbon graphite – the material in pencil lead – has turned out to have a completely unexpected property which could revolutionise the development of green energy and electric cars.

Researchers have discovered that graphene allows positively charged hydrogen atoms or protons to pass through it despite being completely impermeable to all other gases, including hydrogen itself.

The implications of the discovery are immense as it could dramatically increase the efficiency of fuel cells, which generate electricity directly from hydrogen, the scientists said.

The breakthrough raises the prospect of extracting hydrogen fuel from air and burning it as a carbon-free source of energy in a fuel cell to produce electricity and water with no damaging waste products.

“In the atmosphere there is a certain amount of hydrogen and this hydrogen will end up on the other side [of graphene] in a reservoir. Then you can use this hydrogen-collected reservoir to burn it in the same fuel cell and make electricity,” said Professor Sir Andrei Geim of Manchester Univeristy.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 01 Dec 2014, 21:13:17

Pressure Vessels for Alternative Fuels, 2014-2023

High-pressure gas storage vessels represent one of the biggest and fastest-growing markets for advanced composites. In 2013, construction of pressure vessels of all types — metal, composite and metal/composite hybrids — represented more than $2 billion in global sales. That same year, pressure vessel manufacturers accounted for 6 to 7 percent of the estimated 65,000 metric tonnes (143.3 million lb) of global demand for carbon fibers. Although they are used in self-contained breathing apparatuses and provide oxygen and gas storage on aerospace vehicles, the primary end-markets for composite-reinforced pressure vessels are bulk transportation of compressed natural gas (CNG) products, and fuel storage in passenger cars, buses and trucks with powertrains dependent on CNG and hydrogen alternatives to gasoline and diesel.

Growth equation

Demand for alternative fuels is growing, in large part, because the extraction of natural gas from shale reserves has contributed to lower prices in North America and parts of Europe. In the North American market, for example, the cost of natural gas fuels currently runs about 40 percent less than diesel per diesel gallon equivalent. In addition, increasingly stringent emissions regulations, including the European Union’s (E.U.) Euro 6 Standard, which became effective earlier this year, are making diesel-powered buses and commercial vehicles more expensive for operators. Impending regulations are improving the marketability not only of CNG but also of hydrogen (H2) gas — after a period of relative dormancy — for fuel-cell powered vehicles.

In addition, the current availability of postrecession, low-interest loans has helped create a surge in demand for these alternative fuels, accompanied by strengthening and expansion of the pressure-vessel manufacturing base.

CNG vehicles growing

Five years ago, the number of natural gas-powered vehicles (NGVs) in operation around the world — cars, trucks, buses, and other industrial vehicles — totaled about 10 million. Aggregate data offered by nearly 90 countries indicates that during 2013, the global NGV population exceeded 20 million vehicles. In the next three years, it is anticipated that this number will approach 35 million vehicles. By 2023, NGVs could number more than 65 million (see Fig. 1, at left).

In 2013 alone, it is estimated that nearly 5.1 million NGVs were delivered to customers. By way of comparison, the general automotive industry manufactured about 87 million vehicles (of all types). Based on strong demand in Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Iran, Italy and Pakistan, NGV deliveries are expected to reach nearly 5.8 million vehicles in 2014 and could realistically grow to nearly 11 million per year by 2023. Vehicle types vary from country to country (see Fig. 2), but on the whole, about 94 percent of the total represents passenger vehicles; almost 4 percent are mass-transit buses and the remainder are medium- to heavy-duty trucks, forklifts and other industrial and commercial vehicles. Aggregately, over the 10-year forecast, there will be a market for 75 million NGVs. The vast majority of these, approximately 94 percent, are expected to be equipped with high-pressure (≥200 bar/≥2,900 psi) fuel storage systems. The balance will be equipped with liquefied natural gas systems, wherein the natural gas is cooled to cryogenic temperatures (-162°C/-260°F) for storage at relatively low pressure (4 to 5 psi/0.28 bar) in a liquid state.

Hydrogen fuels on the rise

Although CNG is commanding greater market share among global automotive OEMs, there has been a renewed push toward hydrogen fuel cell-powered electric vehicles (FCVs). Granted, past promises about the marketability of such systems were received with what was then well-deserved skepticism: If the predictions of policy makers and marketers had been accurate a decade ago, there would be more than 5 million FCVs on the road today (click on “The Markets: Fuel cells and batteries,” under "Editor's Picks," top right). In 2013, the actual number of transportation fuel cells delivered to customers declined to about 2,200 units, compared to approximately 2,700 units in 2012. Currently, the fielded fleet of FCVs around the globe stands at about 15,000, with a few hundred buses, trucks, and forklifts in commercial service. This situation, however, is beginning to change. Since 2007, 13 automotive OEMs have released FCV demonstrators and test fleets. These FCVs include the Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell, the Honda FCX Clarity, the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell, and the Mercedes-Benz B-Class F-Cell. Notably, in 2015, Toyota Motor Corp. (Aichi, Japan) expects to be the first company to offer a commercial FCV. Sales in Japan are expected to begin in April 2015 and open in Europe and the U.S. later in the year. Most importantly, Toyota won’t be alone. Hyundai is expected to follow suit, and Honda, Nissan, Ford, BMW and others plan to join them no later than 2017. These passenger-vehicle brands, combined with mass-transit buses and limited volumes of commercial trucks, are poised to make hydrogen-powered vehicles — finally — a reality.

Encouragingly, the number of refueling stations needed to support these vehicles is beginning to grow rapidly throughout Japan, Germany, the U.K. and other early adopters (the U.S. among them but, so far, only in California). Globally there are approximately 325 hydrogen refueling stations. Only 25 were added in 2013. During the next two years, however, Japan and California are planning to bring online a combined 100 new hydrogen refueling stations. Germany expects to add about 400 refueling stations by 2023. This analysis forecasts that at least 2,500 refueling stations will be operational globally by 2023. Using the CNG industry as a model, these hydrogen refueling stations have the potential to support between 10 million and 20 million vehicles.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby MonteQuest » Mon 01 Dec 2014, 21:26:38

When the day comes that you can pour this technology into a gallon plastic milk jug and carry it with one hand down a hot dusty road to your out of gas vehicle, is the day I will pay attention.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 02 Dec 2014, 17:55:12

Novel single-site gold WGS catalysts may offer pathway to lower-cost production of hydrogen, fuels and chemicals

A team of researchers from universities and national laboratories led by Tufts University has developed catalysts composed of a unique structure of single gold atoms bound by oxygen to several sodium or potassium atoms and supported on non-reactive silica materials. This single-site gold species is active for the low-temperature (< 200 °C) water-gas shift (WGS) reaction that produces hydrogen.

They thus have found that gold is similar to platinum in creating –O and –OH linkages with more than eight alkali ions and establishing an active site on various supports. This finding paves the way for using earth-abundant supports to disperse and to stabilize precious metal atoms with alkali additives for the WGS and potentially other fuel processing reactions. The result could be lower costs. A paper describing their work is now published in Science Express.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 04 Dec 2014, 17:13:28

Toward a low-cost 'artificial leaf' that produces clean hydrogen fuel

For years, scientists have been pursuing "artificial leaf" technology, a green approach to making hydrogen fuel that copies plants' ability to convert sunlight into a form of energy they can use. Now, one team reports progress toward a stand-alone system that lends itself to large-scale, low-cost production. They describe their nanowire mesh design in the journal ACS Nano.

Peidong Yang, Bin Liu and colleagues note that harnessing sunlight to split water and harvest hydrogen is one of the most intriguing ways to achieve clean energy. Automakers have started introducing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which only emit water when driven. But making hydrogen, which mostly comes from natural gas, requires electricity from conventional carbon dioxide-emitting power plants. Producing hydrogen at low cost from water using the clean energy from the sun would make this form of energy, which could also power homes and businesses, far more environmentally friendly. Building on a decade of work in this area, Yang's team has taken one more step toward this goal.


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 08 Dec 2014, 17:23:50

DNV GL urges natural gas industry to ‘be ready for hydrogen’

DNV GL has initiated a global joint industry project (JIP) ‘HYREADY’. Stakeholders from the natural gas value chain, including natural gas transmission and distribution system operators, and technology providers have already signed up, and the project remains open for other participants to join.

DNV GL has said that the ‘HYREADY’ initiative will encourage the industry to ‘be ready for hydrogen’ by developing practical processes and procedures for the introduction of hydrogen to the grid. The project partners will work together to deliver a broadly accepted methodological description of the steps and aspects to be considered by transmission and distribution system operators across the globe on the measures they could take to prepare natural gas grids for hydrogen injection with acceptable consequences.

“We have seen an increasing number of projects needing access to natural gas infrastructure for renewable gases,” says DNV GL Project Manager Onno Florisson.

“With multiple organisations having the same objective, our industry guidelines will address the ‘how-to’ questions for gas system operators so that they can be confident both in preparing their natural gas grids for the accommodation of hydrogen and in the consequences related to hydrogen injection.”


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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Timo » Mon 08 Dec 2014, 18:28:32

http://insideevs.com/lux-research-fuel-cell-vehicles-costly-fuel-evs-phevs-cheapest/

Sorry, but facts are facts. FCVs are much more expensive to #1) purchase, #2) maintain, and #3) fuel than are EVs and PHEVs. I sincerely want to dump the pump, whether that be gasoline or hydrogen. I can generate my own electricty. I don't want my transportation to be controlled by major corporations, either Big Oil or Big Hydrogen. Fuel Cells for stationary uses, like buildings, i'm in full favor, but not for vehicles. VW even admitted that their FCV was produced only for show. Even Toyota has announced that their FVC will be built only to order. No advance stock will be produced. FCVs will never enter production on a competitive level to EVs. Sorry Graeme. I admire your determination and dedication, but FCVs??? I say no, and most of the rest of the automotive industry agrees with me.
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Re: New Report shows Hydrogen Vehicles will drive change

Unread postby Zanstel » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 06:53:53

Timo wrote:http://insideevs.com/lux-research-fuel-cell-vehicles-costly-fuel-evs-phevs-cheapest/

Sorry, but facts are facts. FCVs are much more expensive to #1) purchase, #2) maintain, and #3) fuel than are EVs and PHEVs. I sincerely want to dump the pump, whether that be gasoline or hydrogen. I can generate my own electricty. I don't want my transportation to be controlled by major corporations, either Big Oil or Big Hydrogen. Fuel Cells for stationary uses, like buildings, i'm in full favor, but not for vehicles. VW even admitted that their FCV was produced only for show. Even Toyota has announced that their FVC will be built only to order. No advance stock will be produced. FCVs will never enter production on a competitive level to EVs. Sorry Graeme. I admire your determination and dedication, but FCVs??? I say no, and most of the rest of the automotive industry agrees with me.

I'm with you. But even with that, i'm happy that fuel cells develop. Fuel cell could be a better technology than a classic engine. More efficient and generate electricity so allow to use electric engines on vehicles and as portable generators. A simple car FC could power a home.
A good technology for future heavy trucks and other heavy machinery.
For hybrids too.

I'm more doubtful about hydrogen. It has the advantage that it could potentially be generated locally, with acceptable efficiency, from electricity. But the storage is dangerous and bulky.
I would prefer if some kind of "biomass to biofuel" machines could be built on a small scale and automated to be sell in "family scale" at reasonable price.
Etanol or butanol should be better renewable fuels, although the direct use of solar to battery will be always more efficient for normal usage.
Fuels add long term and great density energy storage and that is a good advantage for some cases.
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