Natural Gas Vehicles

[Plantagenet]

Delhi, India to add 45,000 CNG powered rickshaws

No compressed natural gasey---no ridey--Indian city adds 45,000 CNG rickshaws

I've riden in ICE rickshaws in Bangkok , Thailand (where they are called tuk-tuks) and Puno, Peru----its a nice way to travel through a 3rd world town.


CNG Tuk tuks would probably work great as a taxi in American cities too, but they definitely don't meet current NHSTA safety regs for US vehicles.

[Plantagenet]

CNG FIAT auto sales by explode to the upside---up 90% in Italy

Italians beat high gasoline prices by switching to CNG cars----Fiat CNG auto sales grow by 90% in Italy-----

AND---Fiat is bringing their CNG technology to powers cars and trucks at their US Chrysler plants----the big ol' honking huge Dodge RAM CNG truck is coming to a redneck near you!!!!

[KingM]

When I arrived here back in 2004 the cornucopians were absolutely sure that $40 oil would usher in a bright happy Golden Age of Alternative Fuels. I remember fondly the corn ethanol, 3rd and 4th gen cellulosic biofuels, wood gas, saturian methane (seriously. see JohnDenvers posts ), fischer tropf coal liquid (like in Nazi Germany or apartheid S. Africa), thermodepolymerized turkey guts (I kid you not, it even had its own acronym--TDP or something?), hemp fuel, algae spume, fusion, oil shale, Who ever thought natural gas would join the list of unicorn power opportunities? Eight years later? Takes all kinds.

True, and when I joined in 2005, the Doomers were predicting the utter collapse of civilization by 2010. Yet here we are, still arguing energy issues with no end game in sight.

[Plantagenet]

corn ethanol, 3rd and 4th gen cellulosic biofuels, wood gas, saturian methane..., fischer tropf coal liquid..., thermodepolymerized turkey guts ...., hemp fuel, algae spume, fusion, oil shale, Who ever thought natural gas would join the list

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.”

--Winston Churchill

[pstarr]

When I arrived here back in 2004 the cornucopians were absolutely sure that $40 oil would usher in a bright happy Golden Age of Alternative Fuels. I remember fondly the corn ethanol, 3rd and 4th gen cellulosic biofuels, wood gas, saturian methane (seriously. see JohnDenvers posts ), fischer tropf coal liquid (like in Nazi Germany or apartheid S. Africa), thermodepolymerized turkey guts (I kid you not, it even had its own acronym--TDP or something?), hemp fuel, algae spume, fusion, oil shale, Who ever thought natural gas would join the list of unicorn power opportunities? Eight years later? Takes all kinds.

True, and when I joined in 2005, the Doomers were predicting the utter collapse of civilization by 2010. Yet here we are, still arguing energy issues with no end game in sight.

Wow! An amazingly perceptive analysis. Red-Herring/Strawman-Award of the Year for you! Good work! By the way. Who are those evil mindless zombie invested DOOMERS who made that horrible call? Get them out here ASAP, so we can beat their shiny butts. They are making smart guys like you look stupid.

[Lore]

My prediction is CNG autos will play a small part in a last ditch effort to maintain our universal surface mobility. However, as infrastructure crumbles, private and government finances continue to dry up, there will be little incentive left, or a market of drivers that can afford or be able to drive such vehicles. Even small ICE transport on NG will require a vast network of stations to service them and the logistics to supply them. There is no real sign of commitment in this direction.

I'm afraid we will be sidetracked, in the not too distant future, by far more dangerous world sucking economic events that will leave NG an unfulfilled promise. Not that it wasn't anything more then a pipe dream of a stop gap.

[seenmostofit]

My prediction is CNG autos will play a small part in a last ditch effort to maintain our universal surface mobility.

I agree. With most Americans able to do their daily commuting with shorter range vehicles, EVs will probably develop a larger portion of market share and maintain it over CNG powered cars.

Even small ICE transport on NG will require a vast network of stations to service them and the logistics to supply them. There is no real sign of commitment in this direction.

Again, true. In part because the commitment and investment has been made in EVs, which make more sense and have the advantage of saving the NG for what it works really well for...making electicity on demand to be distributed through that electrical infrastructure, which covers more of the country than NG pipelines, including the last mile system.

[Plantagenet]

Even small ICE transport on NG will require a vast network of stations to service them and the logistics to supply them. ...

We already have a vast network of stations across the country ideally located to serve CNG cars---they are called "gas stations".

---We don't even have to change the name.

All we have to do is add the CNG pumps and tanks to existing gas stations-----just like Italy is doing.


Growth of CNG gas station infrastructure in Italy

[Lore]

Even small ICE transport on NG will require a vast network of stations to service them and the logistics to supply them. ...

We already have a vast network of stations across the country ideally located to serve CNG cars---they are called "gas stations".

---We don't even have to change the name.

Right, none of them are serving up CNG. I don't live in Italy. In all of Michigan right now there are only 16 public CNG centers. None in my area. All of them require a means for the NG to get to them in volume. I don't expect to see one soon in my local village where there isn't even access to a pipe line for NG heating.

http://www.altfuelprices.com/stations/CNG/Michigan/

[Plantagenet]

We already have a vast network of stations across the country ideally located to serve CNG cars---they are called "gas stations".

---We don't even have to change the name.

Right, none of them are serving up CNG.

Be patient, grasshopper. Even the grass takes time to grow.

Maps showing locations of alternative fuel gas stations across the USA

[Lore]

We already have a vast network of stations across the country ideally located to serve CNG cars---they are called "gas stations".

---We don't even have to change the name.

Right, none of them are serving up CNG.

Be patient, grasshopper. Even the grass takes time to grow.

Maps showing locations of alternative fuel gas stations across the USA

As I insinuated earlier, by that time most of us will all be walking.

At least in Italy when their economy collapses and no one is shipping them LNG anymore they can use their CNG cars as dehydrators for their sun dried tomatoes and take the train.

[seenmostofit]

In all of Michigan right now there are only 16 public CNG centers. None in my area. All of them require a means for the NG to get to them in volume. I don't expect to see one soon in my local village where there isn't even access to a pipe line for NG heating.

Fortunate then that most Americans don't like in an the area like yours. People have been fleeing rural and small town environments over the past century for a reason, one of them being to go where the opportunity were. Hicks in the sticks (no offense intended, certainly rural Michigan comes nowhere close to Appalachia and real hilljacks) will just have to get by with really expensive liquid fuels, whereas their city cousins get all the cool neato new stuff.

If you want the cool neato peak oil saving stuff, you might want to consider relocating?

[seenmostofit]

As I insinuated earlier, by that time most of us will all be walking.

Peak oil didn't get us walking, certainly there doesn't appear to be anything on the horizon as bad as that.

[Lore]

In all of Michigan right now there are only 16 public CNG centers. None in my area. All of them require a means for the NG to get to them in volume. I don't expect to see one soon in my local village where there isn't even access to a pipe line for NG heating.

Fortunate then that most Americans don't like in an the area like yours. People have been fleeing rural and small town environments over the past century for a reason, one of them being to go where the opportunity were. Hicks in the sticks (no offense intended, certainly rural Michigan comes nowhere close to Appalachia and real hilljacks) will just have to get by with really expensive liquid fuels, whereas their city cousins get all the cool neato new stuff.

If you want the cool neato peak oil saving stuff, you might want to consider relocating?

I'll just bet that you also run into burning houses when they catch fire.

[seenmostofit]

I'll just bet that you also run into burning houses when they catch fire.

Only once. And it was a barn. Managed to get two horses out.

That was back when I lived as a hick in the sticks. I fled as soon as I turned 18 of course. Even this poor country boy knew there wasn't much to be had in rural America.

But NG vehicles? Nah...use the stuff to make electricity, we have plenty of it, the infrastructure for its distribution is already in place across most of the country, and you can cantrol emissions better when the point source is one exhaust rather than thousands.

I'll bet even YOU have electric, way back out there where you live. You might not be able to drive to the next town over and back on one charge, but that isn't the rest of the countries fault.

[ronwagn]

I am an advocate of natural gas fuel for all purposes including fuel. Please use my links as a resource. I am not in the business.

Natural gas is the future of energy. It is replacing dirty old coal plants, and dangerous expensive nuclear plants. It will fuel cars, vans, buses, locomotives, aircraft, ships, tractors, engines of all kinds. It costs far less. It will help keep us out of more useless wars, where we shed our blood and money. It lowers CO2 emissions. Over 2,600 natural gas story links on my blog. An annotated bibliography of live links, updated daily. The big picture of natural gas.
ronwagnersrants.blogspot.com

[Plantagenet]

Thanks Ron.

Do you have a natural gas vehicle yourself? How do you like it?

[ronwagn]

I have a lot of information that I want to share. 2600 free links to natural gas stories. It includes a section on conversions, near the top. I would like to answer any questions. My blog is ronwagnersrants.blogspot.com

1. There are several American vehicles now available, mostly commercial in nature. Big trucks of all kinds. The pickup trucks are heavy duty. There are also vans. Dodge, Chevrolet, GMC, Ford all now make pickups. They are more expensive, but the payback could be a couple of years, and they will last a lot longer. People who burn a lot of fuel are the ones that save the most money, so are most motivated make the switch. The pickup trucks are all bifuel, to my knowledge. They all have either a small or large, gasoline tank, and automatically switch fuels. The Chevy can go up to 600 miles on both fuels. Vans are available also, but most are natgas only. The Civics are great cars, and one recently went across the country and back on CNG. They are natgas only.
2. There is a pretty good infrastructure for CNG filling stations. See cngprices.com for the map. Some places are about $1.00 per gas gallon equivalent or GGE. DGE is diesel gallon equivalent. Methane is natural gas.
3. The whole world is finding amazing amounts of natural gas. My prediction is that the world will all have low priced natural gas in twenty years. Natural gas is much cleaner than coal. Also cleaner than diesel or gasoline.

[ronwagn]

Hi Plantgenet. I do not have a NGV. I live in Decatur Illinois, which is central Illinois. I am between Chicago, Indianapolis, and St. Louis. My closest station is in Peoria, about eighty miles away. I am an unpaid advocate for natural gas for the above stated reasons. Well I have made $20 in six months. I am not in it for money. I am a retired psychiatric RN. I am waiting for Decatur to get a station or prices on home pumps to come down. My wife will retire in a few years and I want a new CNG vehicle that will tow a trailer. Pickups are already available by GM, Ford, and Dodge. Have you seen my blog? Many companies and universities are working on better CNG tanks, and far cheaper yet better home fueling pumps. GE and Eaton are two of the companies. There are federal grants to support this. Texas A&M and University of Texas are recipients. I can answer just about any non technical question about natural gas, or natural gas vehicle availability.

[ralfy]

From what I remember, the IEA reports that energy production from all oil and gas sources worldwide will increase by around 9 pct for the next twenty years, but this is based on the assumption that conventional production will not drop. The same organization reports that energy demand has to go up the equivalent of one Saudi Arabia every seven years or so (or something like 1.5 pct a year) in order to maintain economic growth. Another report states that it will take decades to make the transition to other sources of energy.