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Methane Hydrate Fuel (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Mallik 2002 Test drilling for gas hydrates.

Unread postby ehv_nl » Fri 15 Apr 2005, 09:51:12

What are the opinions here on the Mallik 2002 test drilling for gas hydrates? Apparently they had succesfully exploited gas hydrates. At least for a few days before the well was capped.

They apparently also had a conference, as this PDF file states. Anyone aware what came out of that?
Oddly enough I seem not to be able to find anything about this. You'd think I'd be able to find more results on that site..

(...)

Ah, I found some links on the internet:

http://sts.gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/gashydrate/m ... 0_2003.asp

and..

http://www.npto.doe.gov/Natural%20Gas/H ... Mallik.pdf
Last edited by ehv_nl on Thu 28 Apr 2005, 07:37:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby ehv_nl » Mon 25 Apr 2005, 06:39:36

What are the opinions here on the Mallik 2002 test drilling for gas hydrates? Apparently they had succesfully exploited gas hydrates. At least for a few days before the well was capped.


Let me try to rephrase that question: Does this mean that gas hysdrates are exploitable on a (very) large scale? If so, that would certainly mean a enormous postponement of peak natural gas. From what I've read this Mallik field consists of hydrates which were formed of methane coming from a natural gas field which hit the permafrost barrier. That doesn't sound like the regular gas hydrate found in the ocean floor. I'm quite interested in the opinions among the posters of this forum on this experimental drilling and what it might mean for the future of natural gas.
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Unread postby Raxozanne » Mon 25 Apr 2005, 09:31:18

Are you talking about methane hydrates?
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Unread postby ehv_nl » Wed 27 Apr 2005, 02:05:10

Yes.
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Methane Hydrate Fuel (merged)

Unread postby Kez » Fri 16 Sep 2005, 15:18:23

I was taking a pretty interesting gullibility test found here:

http://www.newstarget.com/gullibility.html

And one of the questions is this:

"All the clean hydrogen we need to power the world is already contained in crystals at the bottom of the ocean called gas hydrates."

And their answer was:

TRUE. The mainstream U.S. press doesn't talk about it much, but the world's hydrogen problems have a ready solution. Frozen ice crystals found off the shores of Canada, Japan, Russia, Iceland and other nations with Northern shores contain vast quantities of clean, frozen hydrogen -- enough to power the entire world far beyond the limits of petroleum reserves. The U.S. press doesn't talk much about gas hydrates, preferring to focus on hydrogen derived from either natural gas or petroleum (resources the U.S. tends to own or control).

They provided no references. Anyone know what they are talking about?
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby FatherOfTwo » Fri 16 Sep 2005, 15:24:06

This thread has an extensive discussion on it. There are major issues in extracting them and I believe Devil sums it up best:
This is still fossil fuel. I HOPE and pray to God that methane hydrates will never be exploitable, anywhere, because it would mean MASSIVE releases of greenhouse gases. Frying tonight?
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby RonMN » Fri 16 Sep 2005, 15:53:55

also, it's not hydrogen that's frozen in the crystals...it's methane (natural gas). The problem is getting/harvesting it, and even if we did find a sollution to that...it would likely release more greenhouse gasses that the planet could handle (as already stated).
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby EnergySpin » Fri 16 Sep 2005, 16:07:19

Any discussion about possible exploitation of Gas hydrates deposits brings one particular thought to mind:
Burn baby burn , where baby = planet Earth 8O

Edit
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Regarding the relation between methane and hydrogen. The report is not wrong: methane = CH4 and for people who are really interested about the facts I suggest to delve into the NREL/DOE site (hydrogen program) and/or read the Risoe report (Europeans). One will then find out that the hydrogen economy is really a natural gas/methane hydrate economy. Methane is reformed to hydrogen ...
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby Starvid » Fri 16 Sep 2005, 18:26:32

"All the clean hydrogen we need to power the world is already contained in crystals at the bottom of the ocean called gas hydrates."

They are either liars or incompetents. Methane hydrates are just as fossil as natural gas is.
And by the way, no one has ever managed to extract the methane hydrates. This is just as credible as stating there is no proplems since we have fusion. We only have to tinker with it a bit.
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby Googolplex » Sat 17 Sep 2005, 08:15:31

Wow! They actually managed to fail their own guillability test! :shock:

Now Ive seen everything! :-D
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby Kingcoal » Sat 17 Sep 2005, 11:35:16

The remaining large stores of hydrocarbons all have their challenges. There is shale oil, which is kerogen (oil that's not done cooking yet) and tar sands. Both need to be cooked into usable forms, which is generally bad for your EROEI. Then there are methyl hydrate deposits. This is methane, which is very good as methane is an extremely usable hydrocarbon. The problem here is harvesting the methane. One of the nice things about oil wells is that the oil comes out under its own pressure through a very convenient pipe which can be regulated, capped, etc. It's free lunch, literally. Methyl hydrates are distributed over a large area and can be dangerous if disturbed. Some of the Bermuda Triangle happenings were probably related to methane bubbling to the surface and destroying the buoyancy of anything floating. There are tales of small vessels going down like a rock in water that resembled bubbling champagne. The environmental consequences of a huge release of methane into the atmosphere are equally frightening. There is a theory that a mass extinction 250 million years ago might have been triggered by methyl hydrates suddenly being released all over the earth.

Harvesting this stuff doesn't sound easy. The crystals must be kept cold all the way to the surface to avoid loosing the methane. Then there is the flammability issue. It's one thing to have NG leaking out of a well on an oil platform, it's quite another to have it bubbling up all around you! That gives a whole new meaning to NO SMOKING!

There just ain't no substitute for good old fashioned light sweet crude and the NG that pressurizes it!
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Re: gas hydrates ?

Unread postby shakespear1 » Sat 17 Sep 2005, 12:16:21

We have done enough damage to the oceans as is. Let try to REDUCE the need for this stuff. I think there we will be doing more good for ourselves and the planet. :)
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Taiwan finds huge underwater gas hydrate reserve

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 04 Sep 2006, 05:09:30

Taiwan finds huge underwater gas hydrate reserve

Taiwan geologists have confirmed the existence of more than 500 billion cubic meters of gas hydrate off the southwest coast, enough to meet the island's gas needs for over 60 years, a government geologist said on Monday.

But commercial extraction is likely much more than a decade away as techniques to tap the gas are still being developed, Wang Yunshuen, section chief of the mineral resources section, at the Central Geological Survey.


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Re: Taiwan finds huge underwater gas hydrate reserve

Unread postby EndOfSewers » Mon 04 Sep 2006, 10:42:54

All the energy density of cow farts, and buried at the bottom of the ocean. What a great energy source!
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Re: Taiwan finds huge underwater gas hydrate reserve

Unread postby eastbay » Mon 04 Sep 2006, 10:55:19

....uh, well actually it may turn out to be enough energy to last the PRC about 5 years (guess). This will offer one more excuse to reunify.

Before it was only political, now there's an energy resource China badly needs sitting right off the coast of the mainland. How convenient! :)

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Re: Taiwan finds huge underwater gas hydrate reserve

Unread postby nth » Fri 08 Sep 2006, 17:09:53

US and Canada got a lot of hydrate too!
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Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 09 Sep 2006, 11:47:57

.

Total world deposits of methane hydrate are 4000 trillion tons. The biggest bomb in the solar system!

.
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Ice that Burns

Unread postby crossthread » Sun 04 Mar 2007, 15:14:20

I haven't seen any mention of "Gas Hydrates" around on the site..
AKA "Ice that Burns"
Methane gas hydrate?
**************************************************
Gas hydrate is an ice-like solid that results from the trapping of methane molecules - the main component of natural gas - within a lattice-like cage of water molecules. Dubbed the "ice that burns," this substance releases gaseous methane when it melts.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180908.htm
****************************************************
The size of the global gas hydrate resource is staggering, holding more ultimate energy potential than all other fossil fuels combined, according to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). In the United States, where gas hydrate occurs beneath the permafrost of Alaska's arctic north and below the seabed offshore, the volume of this resource is massive. USGS estimates that the Nation's gas hydrate deposits contain 200,000 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of natural gas. Compare this with a known recoverable natural gas resource of approximately 1,500 Tcf. If just one percent of the gas hydrate resource could be rendered producible, our Nation's natural gas resource base would more than double.

**************************************************
They are also looking into a area known as Hydrate Ridge off the Oregon Coast
I also think, IMBY off the coast of Cape Hatteris, >>>>>North Carolina Folks<<<< theres prospects that have huge amounts of Natural Gas, and/or OIL have been found/discovered around 30 years ago.....
I think Mobil was doing the Geological Survey's back them... Looked VERY Promising...
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Re: Ice that Burns

Unread postby crossthread » Sun 04 Mar 2007, 15:16:48

ok about the East Coast, yes it was off Cape Hatteris..
*************************************************
In 1995, ODP researchers drilled into gas hydrates in a relatively stable area off the U.S. east coast. Scientists have estimated that area could contain enough methane to supply U.S. energy needs for more than 100 years.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 072713.htm
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Re: Ice that Burns

Unread postby crossthread » Sun 04 Mar 2007, 15:26:20

More....

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 081158.htm

There are mega-tons of the stuff at the bottom of the ocean all over the world and in the Arctic permafrost (about 300,000 trillion cubic feet of it) and it is the cleanest and most abundant source of energy in the world. There is at least twice as much of it around as fossil fuels (some say 10 times as much). And, when burned as a fuel, it releases less carbon dioxide pollution than anything else around. w.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/11/021105081158.htm
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