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Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 May 2017, 15:48:32

KJ, when you write "I always thought of "processed" meats generically as cured meat. Ham, Bacon, Sausages, corned beef, cold cuts, etc. If it doesn't come fresh under plastic wrap with a near term expiration date, it's processed meat." You are certainly correct.

And yes, I too, in my day, have enjoyed all of those, too.

Unfortunately, the rest of your post resorts to unsubstantiated bloviation and typical logical fallacies. There were a number of people who smoked all their lives and lived into their 80's. Such anecdotal evidence is essentially worthless when trying to establish scientifically actual statistical likelihoods and causation.

And the amino acid quip is even more ignorant. It is very, very easy to get the right balance...just eat some beans or other legumes with your grains--as is the basis for most post-ag-rev diets around the world--and you're fine. And there are many other combinations that work as well. Everyone I've ever met who has ever practiced or considered going vegan or vegetarian knows this, even though it's not really much of a problem for most vegetarians.


Maybe if you took two seconds to see if your prejudiced assumptions have some kind of basis in reality before posting, you wouldn't so often come off as talking through your hat here. It's really not hard to check on these things these days, after all. Just some friendly advice! :) :)
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 26 May 2017, 15:53:10

Are meal worms meat?
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 May 2017, 16:02:40

Neither I nor anyone else in the world gives a flying hoot if you or anyone else gets their kicks out of eating meal worms.

Knock yourself out! :-D :-D

(Nice attempt at a red herring, though.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Neither mealworms, nor purity (which is, of course, impossible anyway...duh), nor the Inuit, nor any of the other things that committed eaters of creatures with faces grasp at to change the subject is relevant to the main point.

That main point being that the main kinds of meat eating done by most people in the developed world (of CAFO raised or finished livestock) are a big part of the global warming problem (and a number of other problems as well...destruction of waterways, lowering efficacy of antibiotic, enormous cruelty...).
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 26 May 2017, 16:59:57

Still, if not amino acids, I suspect there is something in meat that veggies do not supply, because the strangest people I have ever met are vegetarians. From skinny Hindus to female models, universally whacky. Or perhaps I have the causality backwards, and whacky people are attracted to such oddball diets.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Fri 26 May 2017, 18:36:23

Hippies mostly.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 26 May 2017, 20:15:35

dohboi wrote:Neither I nor anyone else in the world gives a flying hoot if you or anyone else gets their kicks out of eating meal worms.

Knock yourself out! :-D :-D


My daughter works for an edible insect food supplier in the Bay Area. Donbugito.

http://donbugito.com/01About.html

Many SE Asian countries eat insects. There are restaurants all over the USA opening that serve terrestrial arthropods. Check it out.

http://wikitravel.org/en/USA_Top_Restau ... ng_Insects

You guys know how quick you can turn a culture's food habits over to eating insects. Exactly 1 generation.

Let's consider. Insects are terrestrial arthropods. Marine arthropods are already accepted in western diets. You know.... shrimps, crabs, lobsters, crayfish. Edible terrestrial arthropods, exactly the same developmentally as shrimp, are enjoyed in many countries, both rich and poor; meal worms, crickets, beetles, ant larvae, grasshoppers, the list goes on and on. Apparently there are 1900 edible insect species available for humans.

You don't need to feed human omnivores big 1000 pound farting bovines that take up a huge area of landmass on the planet in order to satisfy our species nutritional requirements for animal protein.

You can do it with bugs.

When human overshoot starts unfolding you move slowly down the food chain to satisfy your animal protein requirements.

You want to be ahead of the curve. Chew on a cricket. :-D
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 May 2017, 21:54:00

Ibon, great...knock yourself out promoting bug consumption. Sounds a bit more hopeless than universal veganism! :lol: :lol:

Cog of course once again supplies a textbook case of how prejudice operates.

Anyone he think is weird, if he learns they are also vegan/vegetarian...he is convinced that there is an incontrovertible causal connection. Of course, the many (to him) 'normal' people who he has met who are also non- or low-meat/dairy eaters, he either never found out about that side of their lifestyle, or quickly put it out of his mind is having no relevance.

This is exactly how prejudice generally works, and it is a very efficient feedback system that insure you never have to doubt your favorite presuppositions or your comfortable (to you) pigeon holes in which you place everything so neatly and tidily.

Good luck with that, bloke.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 May 2017, 21:58:13

For your edification, here is a short list of some of the more famous vegetarians and vegans...and yeah...looking over it, it does seem that they are pretty much all hippies :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Scott Adams Author United States [2]
Sharon den Adel Musician Netherlands [3]
Agathocles Political grindcore musical band Belgium [4]
Shmuel Yosef Agnon Writer Israel [5](pp171–172)
Dianna Agron Actress United States [6][7]
eden ahbez Musician United States [8](p171)[9][10]
Damon Albarn Musician United Kingdom [11]
William Andrus Alcott Physician United States [8](pp34–44)[12]
Michael Amott Musician Sweden [13]
And Then There Were None Rock band United States [14]
Lauren Anderson Model United States [15]
Anthony the Great Christian saint Egypt [16](pp22–23)[nb 1]
Álex Anwandter Musician, director Chile [18]
Apollonius of Tyana Philosopher Greece [19](pp30–35)
Christina Applegate Actress United States [20][21]
Johnny Appleseed Nurseryman United States [8](pp6–7)[22][23](pp184–186,307–310)
Joan Armatrading Musician United Kingdom [24]
Richard Ashcroft Musician United Kingdom [25]
Ashoka the Great Emperor India [19](pp75–77)[26]

(pp14–15)[27](pp22–23)[28](pp19–20)[29](pp55–57)
Nadja Auermann Model and actress Germany [30][31]
Emilie Autumn Singer-songwriter, poet, violinist, actress United States [32]
Thaila Ayala Actress Brazil [33]
Amitabh Bachchan Actor India [34]
Bae Jong-ok Actress South Korea [35]
Nic Balthazar Film director Belgium [36]
Jacob Bannon Musician, member of Converge United States [37]
Arnaldo Baptista Musician Brazil [38]
Bob Barker Game show host United States [39]
Brandon Barnes Musician, drummer of Rise Against United States [40]
Basil of Caesarea Bishop Turkey [16](pp159–160)[41](p78)
Rabia Basri Mystic Iraq [42][43]
Jeff Beck Musician United Kingdom [44]
Nick Beggs Musician United Kingdom [45]
Conrad Beissel Religious leader Germany [8](p3)
Raja Bell Sportsman United States [46]
Brie Bella Professional wrestler, actress, WWE Ambassador United States [47]
Lexi Belle Actress United States [48]
Hilary Benn Politician United Kingdom [49]
J. D. Beresford Novelist United Kingdom [50]
Elizabeth Berkley Actress United States [51]
Annie Besant Writer United Kingdom [26](pp99–107)
Traci Bingham Actress United States [52]
John Bishop Comedian United Kingdom [53][54][55]
Barry Black Clergyman United States [56][57]
Pippa Black Actress Australia [58]
Zach Blair Musician, guitarist of Rise Against United States [59]
Kees Boeke Missionary Netherlands [60](p240)
Michael Bolton Musician United States [61]
Surya Bonaly skater France [62]
Cory Booker Politician United States [63][64]
Bramwell Booth Chief of the Staff and General of The Salvation Army United Kingdom [65]
Magnus Børmark Musician Norway [66]
Wouter Bos Politician Netherlands [nb 2]
Jacques Boyer Professional bicycle racer United States [68]
Josh Bradford Guitarist for Silverstein Canada [69]
Stuart Braithwaite Guitarist of post-rock band Mogwai United Kingdom [70]
Constantin Brâncuși Sculptor, painter and photographer, pioneer of modernism Romania [71](p228)
Justin Lee Brannan Artist, community activist, organizer United States [72]
Claudia de Breij Comedian Netherlands [nb 3]
Eva Briegel Singer Germany [74]
Christie Brinkley Model United States [75]
Peter Brock Motor racing driver Australia [76]
Fenner Brockway Politician United Kingdom [77][78]
Luitzen E.J. Brouwer Mathematician Netherlands [60](p236)
Chris Browne Cartoonist United States [79]
Gautama Buddha Spiritual teacher India [42][26](pp11–88)[27](pp21–23)[28](pp17–21)[29](pp50–57)[nb 4]
Kathalijne Buitenweg Politician Netherlands [80]
Tahita Bulmer Singer-songwriter for electronic band New Young Pony Club United Kingdom [81]
Peter Burwash Tennis player Canada [82]
Kate Bush Musician United Kingdom [83]
Lauren Bush Model, designer United States [84][85][86][87]
John Campbell Bassist for Lamb of God United States [88]
Nacho Cano Arranger, composer, musician, record producer Spain [89]
Julia Carling Journalist United Kingdom [90]
Magnus Carlsen Chess player Norway [91]
Edward Carpenter Poet United Kingdom [28](pp79–80)[92](pp256–266,276)
Ben Carson Neurosurgeon United States [93]
Paul Carton Physician France [94]
Dan Castellaneta Voice actor United States [95]
Saint Catherine of Siena Theologian Italy [16](pp167–168)[41](p89)
Stephanie Cayo Actress, singer, model Peru [96]
Stephen Chan Chi Wan Businessman Hong Kong [97]
Agustina Cherri Actress, dancer, model Argentina [98][99]
Jacky Cheung Singer Hong Kong [100]
Sri Chinmoy Poet India [101]
Michael Guy Chislett Musician Australia [102]
Julie Christie Actress United Kingdom [103][104]
Saint John Chrysostom Early Church Father Turkey [41](p79)[92](p124)
Alexa Chung Television presenter United Kingdom [105]
Daniël de Clercq Socialist Netherlands [106]
Sue Coe Artist United Kingdom [107]
J. M. Coetzee Writer South Africa [108](pp63–65)[109]
Rabbi David Cohen Rabbi Israel [5](p172)[110]
She'ar Yashuv Cohen Rabbi Israel [5](pp172–173)[110]
John Coltrane Musician United States [111]
Pat Condell Writer United Kingdom [nb 5]
Confucius Philosopher China [113][114]
Jeremy Corbyn Politician United Kingdom [115]
Liam Cormier Musician United States [116]
Abbie Cornish Actress Australia [117]
Hugo Brandt Corstius Author Netherlands [118]
Elvis Costello Musician United Kingdom [119]
Roger Crab Haberdasher United Kingdom [120](pp26–38)
Stafford Cripps Politician United Kingdom [121][122]
Ernest Howard Crosby Writer United States [8](pp143–147)
Attila Csihar Extreme metal musician Hungary [123]
Alfonso Cuarón Film director Mexico [124]
Rivers Cuomo Musician United States [125]
Peter Cushing Actor United Kingdom [126]
Chuck D Rapper United States [127][128]
Thomas D. Rapper Germany [129]
Leonardo da Vinci Polymath Republic of Florence [130]
Eugen d'Albert Musician Germany [nb 6]
Jeru the Damaja Rapper United States [132]
Lana Del Rey Singer United States [133]
Georg Friedrich Daumer Poet Germany [134](pp282–286)
Eugenio Derbez Television actor, director Mexico [135]
Morarji Desai Politician India [136]
Floortje Dessing Presenter Netherlands [137]
Julieta Díaz Actress Argentina [138]
Dave Dictor Musician United States [139]
Peter Dinklage Actor United States [140]
Mike Dirnt Musician United States [141]
Eliza Doolittle Musician United Kingdom [142][143][144]
David D'Or Musician Israel [145]
Pia Douwes Actress Netherlands [73]
Muriel Dowding, Baroness Dowding Animal rights activist United Kingdom [146](pp137–151)
Anna Drijver Model Netherlands [147]
Isadora Duncan Dancer United States [148]
Michael Clarke Duncan Actor United States [149]
Frederik van Eeden Writer Netherlands [150]
Greg Egan Writer Australia [151]
Michael Eisner Businessman United States [152]
Mattias Eklundh Musician Sweden [153]
Emmanuel Singer Mexico [154]
Empedocles Philosopher Greece [19](pp30–32)[41](pp41–42)[92](pp64–66)
Guy Endore Writer United States [155]
Selma Ergeç Actress Turkey [156]
Kevin Eubanks Musician United States [157]
Joshua Evans Quaker minister United States [158](p40)[8](p7)
Henri W.PH.E. van den Bergh van Eysinga Writer Netherlands [60](p228)
Brian Fair Vocalist for metal band Shadows Fall United States [159]
Corey Feldman Actor United States [160]
Marty Feldman Comedian England [161]
Adam Ferguson Philosopher United Kingdom [134](p208)[162](pp204–206)
Vanessa Ferlito Actress United States [163]
Marsilio Ficino Philosopher Italy [164]
Doug Fieger Musician United States [165]
Thomas Gabriel Fischer Metal musician who led the groups Hellhammer, Celtic Frost and Triptykon Switzerland [166]
Jon Fitch Mixed martial artist United States [167]
Flux of Pink Indians Anarcho-punk/post-punk band United Kingdom [168]
Harley Flanagan Founding member and former bassist of the crossover thrash band Cro-Mags. United States [169]
Jerome Flynn Actor United Kingdom [170]
Jonathan Safran Foer Writer United States [171]
Alina Foley Actress United States [172]
Desmond Ford Evangelical Christian Australia [173][174]
Thomas Ignatius Maria Forster Astronomer United Kingdom [120](pp374–375)
J. D. Fortune Musician Canada [175]
Jorja Fox Actress United States [176][177]
Sage Francis Rapper United States [178]
Saint Francis of Paola Mendicant friar Italy [16](p146)
Edgar Froese German artist and electronic music pioneer, best known for founding the electronic music group Tangerine Dream Germany [179]
Sadie Frost Actress United Kingdom [180]
Mohandas Gandhi Spiritual leader and politician India [181](p.xii)[182]
Gao Yuanyuan Actress China [183]
Antoni Gaudí Architect Spain [184]
John Gay Poet and dramatist United Kingdom [134](pp115–119)
Philip Glass Composer United States [185]
Bobcat Goldthwait Comedian United States [186]
Lewis Gompertz Animal rights advocate United Kingdom [187]
Jorge González Musician, former leader of the band Los Prisioneros Chile [188]
Jane Goodall Primatologist United Kingdom [189]
João Gordo Singer-songwriter Brazil [190]
Shlomo Goren Rabbi Israel [5](pp104,173–174)[110]
Dave Gorman Author, comedian United Kingdom [191]
Lawrence Gowan Musician Canada [192]
Sylvester Graham Dietary reformer United States [8](pp15–70)[26](pp141–148)
Percy Grainger Musician Australia [193](pp78–79)
Dion Graus Politician Netherlands [194]
Derrick Green Extreme metal vocalist for Sepultura United States [195]
Barney Greenway Extreme metal vocalist for Napalm Death United Kingdom [166]
Gail Greenwood Musician United States [196]
Dick Gregory Comedian United States [26](pp215–218)
Amanda Griffin Model Philippines [197]
Angela Groothuizen Singer Netherlands [198]
Benjamin Grosvenor Musician United Kingdom [199]
Vida Guerra Glamour model Cuba [200]
Nacha Guevara Singer-songwriter, dancer and actress Argentina [201]
Chin Chin Gutierrez Actress Philippines [202]
GZA Rapper United States [203]
Ha Okio Musician Vietnam [204]
Alexander Hacke Musician Germany [205]
Nina Hagen Singer and actress Germany [206]
Sarah Jane Hamilton Pornographic actress United Kingdom [207]
Otoman Zar-Adusht Ha'nish Spiritual leader United States [208]
Tres Hanley Actress Singer United States UK [209]
Hao Lei Actress China [210]
Neil Harbisson Cyborg United Kingdom [211]
George Harrison Musician United Kingdom [212]
Lenie 't Hart Animal rights activist Netherlands [213]
Maarten 't Hart Biologist Netherlands [nb 7]
David Hartley Philosopher United Kingdom [215](pp207–209)[nb 8]
Annie Haslam Musician United Kingdom [217]
Juliana Hatfield Musician United States [218]
Lizzy Hawker Long-distance runner United Kingdom [219]
Heaven Shall Burn Extreme metal band Germany [220]
Sadeq Hedayat Writer Iran [221]
Martin van Hees Philosopher Netherlands [222][223]
Maximiliano Hernández Martínez Politician El Salvador [224]
Hesiod Oral poet Greece [225]
Rudolf Hess Politician Germany [226]
Missy Higgins Singer-songwriter Australia [227][228]
Saint Hilarion Anchorite Egypt [16](pp24–25)
Susumu Hirasawa Musician Japan [229]
Adolf Hitler Politician Germany [230][231][232][233][nb 9]
Isa Hoes Actress Netherlands [137]
Lancelot Hogben Zoologist United Kingdom [237]
Amanda Holden Actress and television presenter United Kingdom [238]
Jens Holm Politician Sweden [239]
Tuomas Holopainen Keyboardist, songwriter Finland [240]
Henriette Roland Holst Poet Netherlands [60](p230)
John Howard Prison reformer United Kingdom [241]
Steve Howe Musician, guitarist for progressive rock band Yes United Kingdom [242]
Mike Hranica Singer for metalcore band The Devil Wears Prada United States [243]
Dave Hughes Television presenter Australia [244]
Henny Huisman Television presenter Netherlands [245]
Aldous Huxley Writer United Kingdom [246]
Iamblichus Philosopher Syria [247]
Frank Iero Musician United States [248]
Michael Imperioli Actor United States [249]
Ewout Irrgang Politician Netherlands [250]
Susan Saint James Actress United States [146](pp47–58)
Reid Jamieson Singer-songwriter Canada [251]
Jim Jarmusch Film director United States [252]
JeA Singer South Korea [253][254][255]
Joan Jett Singer-songwriter United States [256]
Éder Jofre Boxer Brazil [257]
Matt Johnson Vocalist and keyboardist of the indie pop duo Matt and Kim United States [258]
Christofer Johnsson Musician, founder member of Therion Sweden [259]
James Johnston Politician United Kingdom [260]
Howard Jones Musician United Kingdom [261]
Watkin Tudor Jones Musician South Africa [262]
Jónsi Musician, founder of post-rock band Sigur Rós Iceland [263]
Juanes Singer-songwriter Colombia [264]
Kabīr Poet India [19](pp47–49)
Alter Kacyzne Photo-journalist Lithuania [5](p171)
Franz Kafka Novelist Austria-Hungary [265]
A. P. J. Abdul Kalam Scientist, teacher, poet, former President of India India [266]
Roberta Kalechofsky Jewish writer, feminist, animal rights activist United States [267]
Antonie Kamerling Actor Netherlands [268]
Shahid Kapoor Actor India [269]
Eliane Karp Anthropologist, former First Lady of Peru France [270]
Bill Kaulitz Singer Germany [271]
Sati Kazanova Singer Russia [272]
Matt Kean Musician United Kingdom [273][274]
John Harvey Kellogg Physician United States [26](pp149–158)
Matthew Kenney Chef United States [275]
Kesha Singer-songwriter United States [276]
Ayya Khema Bhikkhuni Germany and United States [277]
Masta Killa Rapper United States [278]
Kim Hyo-jin Actress South Korea [35]
Anna Bonus Kingsford Magazine editor United Kingdom [134](pp374–383)[279]
Bep van Klaveren Boxer Netherlands [60](p103)[280]
Marcela Kloosterboer Actress Argentina [281]
Nicolette Kluijver Television presenter and model Netherlands [137]
Paul Koehler Drummer of metalcore band Silverstein Canada [69][282]
Niko Koffeman Politician Netherlands [nb 10]
Martine Wittop Koning Writer Netherlands [60](p231)[284]
Abraham Isaac Kook Rabbi Latvia [5](p175)[19](pp118–121)[110]
Kim van Kooten Actress and screenwriter Netherlands [268]
k-os Rapper Canada [285][286]
Killer Kowalski Professional wrestler Canada [26](pp231–236)
Jiddu Krishnamurti Writer and public speaker India [287]
Liv Kristine Singer-songwriter Norway [288]
KRS-One Rapper United States [289]
Alexander Krull Singer Germany [288]
Attje Kuiken Politician Netherlands [290]
Sushil Kumar Wrestler India [291]
František Kupka Artist Czechoslovakia [nb 11][nb 12]
Yasmien Kurdi Singer Philippines [197]
Haldor Lægreid Singer Norway [294]
Mon Laferte Singer-songwriter Chile [295]
Bonnie-Jill Laflin Model and television personality United States [296]
Christine Lagarde Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund France [297]
Alphonse de Lamartine Writer, poet and politician France [nb 13][nb 14]
Benjamin Lay Abolitionist United States [299]
Cloris Leachman Actress United States [300]
Charles Webster Leadbeater Author United Kingdom [301]
Lee Ha-nui Beauty pageant titleholder South Korea [35][302][303]
Rita Lee Singer-songwriter Brazil [304]
Patricia de León Actress, TV host, model, beauty pageant titleholder Panama [305]
Nikolai Leskov Writer Russia [306]
Chris Leslie Electric folk musician, member of Fairport Convention United Kingdom [307]
Leona Lewis Singer United Kingdom [308][309][310]
Tony Levin Musician United States [311]
Jimmy Liao Picture book illustrator Taiwan [97]
Bart de Ligt Anarcho-pacifist and antimilitarist Netherlands [60](p239)
Jan Ligthart Teacher Netherlands [60](p220)
Jack Lindsay Writer Australia [193](p77)
Richard Linklater Film director United States [312][313][314]
Tzipi Livni Politician Israel [315]
Eneko Llanos Athlete Spain [316]
Lo Wing-lok Physician and politician Hong Kong [97]
Michael Locher Musician Switzerland [317]
Claire Loewenfeld Nutritionist and herbalist Germany [318]
Lisa Lopes Rapper United States [319]
César López Musician Mexico [320]
Lu You Poet China [321]
Arjen Lucassen Singer-songwriter Netherlands [322]
Joanna Lumley Actress United Kingdom [323]
Anni-Frid Lyngstad Singer Norway [66]
Lady Constance Lytton Suffragette United Kingdom [324]
M-1 Rapper, member of Dead Prez United States [325]
Grant MacEwan Professor and politician Canada [326]
Francisco Madero Politician, writer and revolutionary Mexico [327][328]
R. Madhavan Actor, writer, producer, television presenter India [329]
Jamby Madrigal Politician Philippines [197]
Jaime de Magalhães Lima Thinker, poet, essayist, literary critic, promoter of vegetarianism Portugal [nb 15]
Tobey Maguire Actor, producer United States [331][332][333]
Mahavira Sage who established tenets of Jainism India [26](pp19–28)
Gustav Mahler Composer and one of the leading conductors of his generation Austria-Hungary [nb 16][nb 17]
Andrius Mamontovas Musician, songwriter, record producer, actor Lithuania [336][337]
João Manzarra Television host Portugal [338]
Bob Marley Singer-songwriter, guitarist Jamaica [339]
Jodie Marsh Media personality, glamour model United Kingdom [340]
Billy Martin Guitarist and keyboardist for pop punk band Good Charlotte United States [341]
Luis Miguel Martín Long-distance runner Spain [342]
Ricky Martin Singer-songwriter, actor Puerto Rico [343]
Sebastián Martínez Actor Colombia [344]
Doug Martsch Musician, member of Built to Spill United States [345]
Scott Maslen Actor, model United Kingdom [346]
Paul Masvidal Musician, member of progressive metal band Cynic United States [347]
Mojo Mathers Politician, member of the New Zealand House of Representatives New Zealand [348]
Brian May Musician, singer, songwriter, record producer, astrophysicist, author, contributor England [349]
Alicia Mayer Actress, comedian Philippines [350]
Paul Mazurkiewicz Drummer for death metal band Cannibal Corpse United States [351]
Winston McCall Musician Australia [352]
Colman McCarthy Journalist, teacher, lecturer, peace activist United States [8](pp206–207)
Paul McCartney Musician, composer, producer, businessman, member of The Beatles United Kingdom [64][353][354][355][356]
Stella McCartney Fashion designer United Kingdom [357]
Rue McClanahan Actress, comedian, author United States [358]
Patrick McDonnell Illustrator, creator of Mutts United States [359]
Jay McGuiness Singer, member of the boy band The Wanted United Kingdom [142][143][144]
Tim McIlrath Musician, vocalist and guitarist of Rise Against United States [360]
Nellie McKay Singer-songwriter, actress, former stand-up comedian United States [361]
Edward McMillan-Scott Member of the European Parliament United Kingdom [362]
Armin Meiwes Convict who claims to be reformed and concerned about injustices Germany [363]
Luisa Mell Actress and former presenter of the RedeTV! programme Late Show Brazil [364]
Natalie Merchant Musician, songwriter United States [365]
Method Man Hip hop artist, record producer, actor, member of the Wu-Tang Clan United States [366]
Chucho Merchán Musician Colombia [367]
Saint Angela de Merici Religious leader and saint Italy [16](pp125–126)
Johan Messchaert Singer and vocal pedagogue Netherlands [60](p219)
Lea Michele Actress, singer United States [368]
Gabrielle Miller Actress Canada [369]
Crispian Mills Musician, songwriter, film director United Kingdom [370]
Hayley Mills Actress, singer United Kingdom [371]
Milo Rapper United States [372]
Giovanni Pico della Mirandola Renaissance philosopher Italy [373]
Shanna Moakler Actress, model, reality television celebrity United States [374]
Narendra Modi Prime Minister of India India [375]
Elizabeth Maria Molteno Suffragist and civil rights activist South Africa [376]
Daniel Mongrain Musician for metal bands Martyr and Voivod Canada [377]
Sophie Monk Singer, songwriter, actress, model Australia [378]
Théodore Monod Naturalist, explorer, and humanist scholar France [379]
Andrea Montenegro Actress, model Peru [380]
Leonardo Montero TV host Argentina [381]
Alan Moore Comic book writer United Kingdom [382]
Jenna Morasca Actress, swimsuit model, winner of Survivor: The Amazon United States [383]
Edwin Moses Former track and field athlete United States [384]
Malcolm Muggeridge Journalist, author, satirist United Kingdom [26](pp243–250)
Bawa Muhaiyaddeen Saintly Tamil-speaking teacher and Sufi mystic from the island of Sri Lanka Sri Lanka [19](p175)
José Mujica President of Uruguay Uruguay [385]
Lillian Müller Model, actress in motion pictures and television Norway [66]
Desidério Murcho Philosopher, professor, and writer Portugal [nb 18]
Stuart Murdoch Musician, member of indie pop band Belle & Sebastian United Kingdom [387]
Cillian Murphy Actor Ireland [388]
Keith Murray Musician, member of indie rock band We Are Scientists United States [389]
Murs Rapper United States [390]
Reuben D. Mussey Medical doctor and an early opponent of tobacco United States [8](pp44–46)
My Summer As A Salvation Soldier Singer-songwriter Iceland [391]
Adam Myerson Cyclist United States [392][393]
Xavier Naidoo Singer-songwriter, record producer Germany [394]
Andrew Napolitano Senior Judicial Analyst for Fox News Channel, former host of Freedom Watch United States [395]
Martina Navratilova Retired tennis player and a former World No. 1 Czech Republic [nb 19]
Kevin Nealon Actor and comedian United States [397]
Helen Nearing Author and the second wife of Scott Nearing United States [398]
Philip Neri Priest noted for founding the "Congregation of the Oratory" Italy [16](p152)[215](p153)
Mike Ness Musician for punk rock band Social Distortion United States [399]
Jukka Nevalainen Musician, member of Nightwish Finland [400]
Phil Neville Footballer, played for Manchester United and Everton England [401]
Matt Nicholls Musician, member of Bring Me the Horizon United Kingdom [273][274]
George Nicholson Nationally known printer United Kingdom [402]
Jayde Nicole Model Canada [403]
Ferdinand Domela Nieuwenhuis The Netherlands' first prominent socialist Netherlands [60](p214)
Roberto de Nobili Jesuit missionary to Southern India Italy [404]
William F. Nolan Novelist, short story writer United States [405]
Krist Novoselic Musician, songwriter, author, activist, Nirvana member United States [406]
Paavo Nurmi World record-setting runner Finland [407]
Natasja Oerlemans Politician, prominent member of the Party for the Animals Netherlands [408]
José Oiticica Poet, activist Brazil [409]
Margreth Olin Film director and producer Norway [66]
Maria O'Neill Writer, poet, journalist, spiritualist Portugal [410]
Onision YouTuber and Internet personality United States [411]
Natalia Oreiro Singer, actrees, fashion designer Uruguay [412]
Kelly Osbourne Singer-songwriter, author, actress, television personality, radio personality, fashion designer United Kingdom [333]
Maja Ostaszewska Actress Poland [413][414][415]
Carré Otis Actress, model United States [416]
Esther Ouwehand Politician, marketing manager Netherlands [nb 20]
Cem Özdemir Politician Germany [418]
Walburga, Lady Paget Diarist, writer and an intimate friend of Queen Victoria Germany [419]
Monty Panesar Cricketer United Kingdom [420]
Natalia París Model Colombia [421]
Alexandra Paul Actress United States [422]
Gastón Pauls Actor, TV host, producer Argentina [99]
Nicolás Pauls Actor, musician Argentina [423]
Justin Pearson Musician for a number of noise rock and hardcore bands, as The Locust United States [424][425]
Kal Penn Film and television actor, producer, and civil servant United States [426]
Isaac Leib Peretz Yiddish language author and playwright Poland [5](p171)
Tony Perry Musician, member of Pierce the Veil United States [427]
Fiona Phillips Television broadcaster United Kingdom [238]
Sir Richard Phillips Schoolteacher, author and publisher United Kingdom [134](pp235–244)
Kellie Pickler Singer-songwriter United States [129]
Plotinus Major philosopher of the ancient world Greece [nb 21][429]
Plutarch Biographer, essayist, priest, ambassador, magistrate Greece [430]
Henri Polak Trade unionist and politician Netherlands [60](p229)
Alexander Pope Poet United Kingdom [431]
John Porcelly Musician United States [432]
Porphyry Neoplatonic philosopher Greece [41](pp58–61)[27](pp37–38)
Martín de Porres Lay brother of the Dominican Order Peru [16](p206)
John Cowper Powys Novelist United Kingdom [433]
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Gaudiya Vaishnava teacher, founder-acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness India [19](pp56–60)[26](pp173–180)
Joe Principe Musician, bassist of Rise Against United States [434]
Jade Puget Musician, member of the alternative rock band AFI United States [435]
Purified in Blood Metalcore band Norway [436]
Jimmy Pursey Musician, record producer United Kingdom [437]
Pythagoras of Samos Ionian Greek philosopher, mathematician, founder of Pythagoreanism Greece [42][438]
Maggie Q Actress, model United States [439]
Martha Quinn One of the original video jockeys on MTV United States [440]
Srinivasa Ramanujan Mathematician and autodidact India [441]
Guillaume Thomas François Raynal Writer and man of letters during the Age of Enlightenment France [nb 22]
Jean Jacques Élisée Reclus Geographer, anarchist revolutionary, and writer France [28](pp88,105,173–176)
Redman Rapper, record producer, actor United States [443]
Dimitri Reinderman Chess Grandmaster with an Elo rating of 2542 Netherlands [245]
Ilya Yefimovich Repin Leading Russian painter and sculptor of the Peredvizhniki artistic school Russia [306][444](pp110–114)
Reshma Renowned folk singer of Pakistan Pakistan [445]
Saint Richard of Chichester Saint who was Bishop of Chichester United Kingdom [16](p191)[41](p81)
Joseph Ritson Antiquary United Kingdom [134](pp185–190)
Reuven Rivlin President of Israel Israel [446]
Alice Roberts Anatomist, paleopathologist, TV presenter United Kingdom [447]
Andy Robinson English rugby union coach and retired player United Kingdom [448]
José Luis Rodríguez Singer Venezuela [449][450]
Fred Rogers Educator, minister, songwriter, television host United States [451]
Huberto Rohden Philosopher, educator, theologist, author, pioneer of transcendentalism Brazil [452]
Romain Rolland Dramatist, essayist, art historian, novelist France [453]
Uli Jon Roth Musician Germany [454]
Xavier Rudd Musician, singer-songwriter Australia [455][456][457]
Hastings Russell, 12th Duke of Bedford Nobility, activist United Kingdom [458]
RZA Rapper, CEO, record producer, actor, screenwriter, author, director United States [459][460]
Jonathan Sacks Rabbi, philosopher, and scholar of Judaism United Kingdom [461]
Jacques-Henri Bernardin de Saint-Pierre Writer, botanist France [120](pp208–214)[134](pp173–176)
Henry Stephens Salt Writer, teacher, social reformer United Kingdom [462]
Diederik Samsom Politician Netherlands [463]
Ric Sanders Violinist, member of Fairport Convention United Kingdom [307]
Rodrigo Santoro Actor Brazil [464]
Gabe Saporta Lead singer and primary creative force behind the synthpop band Cobra Starship Uruguay [248]
Susan Sarandon Actress United States [465]
Judith Sargentini GreenLeft politician Netherlands [466]
Martin Sastre Artist, filmmaker Uruguay [467]
Swami Satchidananda Religious teacher, spiritual master and yoga adept India [468]
Kool Savas German rapper Germany [394]
Nikolas Schiller Blogger, prominent digital map artist in the blogosphere, civil rights activist United States [469]
Wim T. Schippers Voice actor, producer, comedian Netherlands [80]
Loretta Schrijver Television host Netherlands [nb 23]
Jason Schwartzman Actor, musician United States [471]
Albert Schweitzer Music, philanthropy, theology Germany [472]
Jenny Seagrove Actress, political activist United Kingdom [473]
Kevin Seconds Singer for hardcore punk band 7 Seconds United States [474]
Virender Sehwag One of the leading batsmen in the Indian cricket team India [475]
Sandra Seifert Nurse, beauty pageant contestant, fashion model Taiwan [197]
Serenity Erotic dancer and pornographic actress United States [476]
Christian Serratos Actress United States [477]
Quintus Sextius Philosopher, whose philosophy combined Pythagoreanism with Stoicism Italy [nb 24]
Otep Shamaya Vocalist of nu metal band Otep United States [479]
George Bernard Shaw Playwright, critic, political activist Ireland [42][480]
Martin Shaw Actor United Kingdom [481]
Percy Bysshe Shelley Poet, dramatist, essayist, novelist United Kingdom [134](pp218–235)
Herbert Shelton Alternative medicine advocate, author, pacifist United States [8](pp160–161)
Sheetal Sheth Actress, producer United States [482]
Barbie Shu Actress and singer Taiwan [97]
Agostinho da Silva Philosopher, essayist and writer Portugal [483]
Sarah Silverman Comedian, writer, actress, singer and musician United States [484]
Aaron Simpson Mixed martial artist United States [167]
Isaac Bashevis Singer Novelist, short story writer United States [26](pp237–242)[485][486][487]
Peter Singer Moral philosopher Australia [488]
Fauja Singh Centenarian marathon runner India [489][490]
Matt Skiba Musician for Alkaline Trio and Blink-182 United States [491]
Jon Skolmen Actor and comedian Norway [294]
Song Il-gook Actor South Korea [35]
Matt Sorum Musician United States [492]
Patricia Sosa Singer Argentina [493]
Sotion Neopythagorean philosopher Greece [494]
Amílcar de Sousa Medical doctor, author, president of the first Portuguese vegetarian society Portugal [495]
Henry Spira Widely regarded as one of the most effective animal rights activists of the 20th century United States [496]
Bill Steer Guitarist for extreme metal band Carcass England [497]
Aad Stelylen Former Dutch athlete, specialised in long distances Netherlands [60](p102)
Arran Stephens Writer, founder of Nature's Path Foods Canada [498]
Gruschenka Stevens Actress and singer Germany [499]
Jon Stewart TV show host, comedian United States [500]
Joss Stone Singer-songwriter, actress United Kingdom [501][502][503]
Jan P. Strijbos Naturalist, cineast, photographer, journalist, writer Netherlands [60](p242)
Gustav Struve Politician Germany [134](pp271–281)
Ruben Studdard Singer, actor United States [504]
María Eugenia Suárez Actress, singer, model Argentina [505]
Mark Suppelsa Television anchor United States [506]
Oliver Sykes Musician, member of Bring Me the Horizon United Kingdom [273][507]
Amber Tamblyn Actress United States [508]
Serj Tankian Musician, songwriter, record producer, poet, activist, System of a Down member United States [509]
Tarkan Singer-songwriter, record producer, performer Turkey [510]
Tertullian Prolific early Berber Christian author from Carthage in the Roman province of Africa Roman Empire (Carthage) [27](p53)[92](pp116–117)
Marianne Thieme Politician, animal rights activist, author Netherlands [nb 25]
Maarten Tjallingii Professional racing cyclist for UCI ProTeam LottoNL–Jumbo Netherlands [512]
Leo Tolstoy Novelist, short story writer, playwright, essayist Russia [42][26](pp88–97)[513]
Peter Tosh Musician, member of The Wailers Jamaica [514]
Devin Townsend Musician, former member of Strapping Young Lad United States [515]
Paolo Troubetzkoy Artist, sculptor Russia [nb 26]
Titia van der Tuuk Author, feminist, pacifist, teacher Netherlands [60](p226)
Shania Twain Singer-songwriter, television personality Canada [517][518]
Richard Ungewitter Writer, pioneer of the German nudist movement Germany [120](pp436–437)
Uphill Battle Metalcore band United States [519]
Mellie Uyldert Writer, alternative healer, occultist and astrologer Netherlands [60](p246)
Steve Vai Guitarist, composer, singer, songwriter, producer United States [520]
Pedro Valdjiu Musician, member of Blasted Mechanism Portugal [521]
Fernando Vallejo Novelist, filmmaker, essayist Colombia [522]
Eddie Vedder Musician, songwriter, member of alternative rock band Pearl Jam United States [523]
Marly van der Velden Actress Netherlands [nb 27]
Krista van Velzen Politician Netherlands [80]
Milo Ventimiglia Actor, director United States [525][526]
Georgina Verbaan Actress, singer Netherlands [268]
Dirk Verbeuren Drummer for melodic death metal band Soilwork Belgium [527]
Umberto Veronesi Surgeon and oncologist Italy [528]
Virgil Poet Italy [42]
Yolandi Visser Musician South Africa [262]
Swami Vivekananda Chief disciple of the 19th-century saint Ramakrishna India [19](pp50–52)
Voltaire Writer, philosopher, playwright France [1]
Marijke Vos Politician Netherlands [80]
Vydūnas Teacher, poet, humanist, philosopher and Lithuanian Lithuania [529]
Herschel Walker Former college and professional football player and a mixed martial artist United States [530]
Jeffrey Walker Vocalist and bassist for extreme metal band Carcass United Kingdom [531]
David Wallechinsky Author of many Olympic reference books and other reference books United States [26](pp219–224)
Bernard Weatherill Politician, Speaker of the House of Commons United Kingdom [532]
Dennis Weaver Actor United States [533]
John Wesley Founder of Methodism United Kingdom [534]
Jason Whalley Singer for punk rock band Frenzal Rhomb Australia [535]
Forest Whitaker Actor, producer, director United States [536][537]
Ellen G. White Author and co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church United States [538]
Zara Whites Former adult film actress Netherlands [nb 28]
Norbert Wiener Mathematician, famous child prodigy, originator of cybernetics United States [540]
Wendy O. Williams Singer, actress, member of the punk rock band Plasmatics United States [541]
Steven Wilson Solo progressive rock musician, frontman of Porcupine Tree United Kingdom [542][543]
Faye Wong Recording artist, actress China [544][545]
S. Fowler Wright Novelist United Kingdom [nb 29]
Esmé Wynne-Tyson Actress and writer United Kingdom [26](pp167–171)
Shmuly Yanklowitz Modern Orthodox Rabbi, activist, educator, writer, motivational speaker, social entrepreneur, founder of Uri L'Tzedek United States [547][548]
"Weird Al" Yankovic Comedy musician United States [549][550]
Owain Yeoman Actor United Kingdom [551]
Yoon Jin-seo Actress South Korea [35]
Thom Yorke Musician, singer and principal songwriter of the alternative rock band Radiohead United Kingdom [552]
Marguerite Yourcenar Author, essayist, poet France [553][554]
Zarathustra Founder of Zoroastrianism Persia [42]
Zendaya Actress, singer-songwriter United States [555]
Ethan Zohn Soccer player United States [383]
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 May 2017, 05:17:07

Holy list Batman. Is that all the Vegans in the world?
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 May 2017, 07:24:52

You are making my point for me. Most are unknown to me, many are despised, some are obvious crackpots, a bare few I respect. Now I know why so many are nut cases.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 May 2017, 07:31:27

Just because you are a Vegan doesn't mean the normal rules of regular bathing should not apply to you. In my limited experience with the female variety of Vegan, there is a smell of patchouli and BO about them.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 27 May 2017, 07:48:17

Cog wrote:Just because you are a Vegan doesn't mean the normal rules of regular bathing should not apply to you. In my limited experience with the female variety of Vegan, there is a smell of patchouli and BO about them.


I have to keep the vegans separated from the entomologists when they both are guests at the same time here at Totumas. Spam eating entomologists with their killing jars are just pure evil.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 27 May 2017, 08:01:55

Ibon wrote:
Cog wrote:Just because you are a Vegan doesn't mean the normal rules of regular bathing should not apply to you. In my limited experience with the female variety of Vegan, there is a smell of patchouli and BO about them.


I have to keep the vegans separated from the entomologists when they both are guests at the same time here at Totumas. Spam eating entomologists with their killing jars are just pure evil.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 27 May 2017, 13:34:55

Cute.

...

Basically, I've gotta say that the meat-eaters' lack of valid arguments here (most of them are merely non-sequiturs) is essentially an admission that they don't have any valid arguments to present, so I stand affirmed and will retire from the field (for now) with the laurels of victory encircling my regal vegan(-ish) head! :-D :-D
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 27 May 2017, 13:50:58

dohboi wrote:Cute.

...

Basically, I've gotta say that the meat-eaters' lack of valid arguments here (most of them are merely non-sequiturs) is essentially an admission that they don't have any valid arguments to present, so I stand affirmed and will retire from the field (for now) with the laurels of victory encircling my regal vegan(-ish) head! :-D :-D


My argument partially in jest is certainly an alternative... eating bugs. And is an already established cuisine in many cultures. So eating bugs is eating animal protein without killing the planet. Period.

On the other hand vegans are irresistible as targets of jest because of their often sanctimonious attitude that they have earned some badge of sustainability even though they get in airplanes and drive cars and consume like all the other kudzu apes. From most of the vegans I have met they have poor knowledge of ecology. In this regard they remind me of Christians..... very sanctimonious one second and then play the victim card on how misunderstood they are the next. Vegans visiting developing countries are the worst. Instead of just culturally adapting to the local cuisines they impose their diet on the most humble of establishments with an arrogance they cannot recognize because they are so overly focused on themselves.

As guests they are some of the most high maintenance. They carry very little meat on their bones but a hell of a lot of baggage in their heads.

There, I said it. :)
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 27 May 2017, 14:38:45

Ibon, soundly done!
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Cog » Sat 27 May 2017, 14:44:43

They carry very little meat on their bones but a hell of a lot of baggage in their heads.


Truly brilliant Ibon. Many internet points to you.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 27 May 2017, 15:39:03

"...often sanctimonious..."

Continuing in the line of cog...unsubstantiated generalizations without any real counter arguments.

Thanks again for all of your concession of the field.

And enjoy the bugs! :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Oh yeah, a diet of grains, legumes, vegetables, fruit and other plant sources is totally wacko, but eating maggots and worms is completely non-problematic for anyone...as long as meat is on the menu inf some convoluted form or another. No bias here at all. Good to hear that you're all non-sanctimonious about your choices, though! :o :o )
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby farmlad » Sat 27 May 2017, 16:41:51

whether a person eats meat or not is not killing the planet. What is killing the planet is the lack of herbivores which have co evolved with the grasslands of the world.

These grasslands in brittle and arid enviroments are degrading and desertifying without the grazers that chomp off the grass causing the grasses to regrow leaves and roots to efficiently harness the energy from the sun. The stomach of the ruminant is also a phenomenal cellulose digester and the waste product is fertilizer for the grasses.
With so many of us on the planet we can not afford anything else than that the majority of these be domesticated ruminants that also serv as food for humans.
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Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 27 May 2017, 17:07:45

farmlad, don't cattle count as herbivores that chomp off the grass ?
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