Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 13:41:32

Pete, my position goes beyond what we should or should not eat. You misunderstood it anyways, I would not interfere in whatever diet you select for yourself, I think that's a matter of personal freedom and I would not presume to advocate - as dohboi does - one diet over another. Nor would I even pass judgement over somebody else's diet choices - as you did. Eat what you want as long as your diet does not include me or my kids or grandkids, or even endangered songbirds - because if your dietary choices do offend me (which would take some extreme choices in food) then I might be motivated enough to care about them, and take action.

I think I understand dohboi's dietary choices. I did after all impugn his motives for such, with good reason. If you think I made a mistake, then be explicit about what, lest I think you are speaking from your nether orifice.

Ibon, I'm not gonna prescribe or advocate an abridgement of anybody's rights. Nor am I going to advocate anything that directly reduces the population of humanity itself. What I am doing and will teach my kid and grandkids is the conservation of personal wealth, especially with real estate, so that my genes have a better chance at surviving and perpetuating themselves than do those who fail to act I have I.

The only difference being that I believe that I have completed the cultural transition you refer to - years ago in fact - and I am doing these things as a conscious and deliberate set of actions, believing that will enjoy more success than random acts. I reached many of my philosophical positions before I chanced upon this place, and I would remind you that movement is a relative concept that depends upon your frame of reference. Who are you to say that I have changed, when in fact both of us are in a constant state of flux, such that judgements about another must be tempered with due consideration of one's own changing references?

As for Montequest, I had many rewarding exchanges of words with him here, and he hasn't been an active forum participant for the past few years. I like to think he is contentedly retired to his earth-sheltered home in that great state he lives in, enjoying some fine home brews or even distilled spirits, with plenty of female companionship, while munching homegrown veges and beef.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Fri 01 Jun 2018, 13:47:17, edited 1 time in total.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 13:43:19

pstarr wrote:
So in conclusion; we are not necessarily pests to be exterminated lol


I agree. The problem is that this more virtuous side of humanity requires less humans to flourish once again. What was the US population when Teddy Roosevelt proposed the National Park System?
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6296
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 13:44:34

Ibon wrote:"We will see a lot more of this. These are the opening acts. We can witness in the 10 years many of us have posted on this site the collective shift toward slowly embracing a more callous position toward marginalized humans.

There are two many of us. We will learn to compartmentalize our compassion towards our own..... toward the rest Das Boot ist Voll."


Yes, absolutely. I never would have considered the Mexican wall as anything other than a callous unnecessary campaign theme, and a cruel waste of money. My turn around has nothing to do with American 'security' and the growing drug problem. It has nothing to do with issues of crime and American employment. Nothing to do with a drain on our economic system.

It has all to do with peak oil.
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27072
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 14:00:35

KaiserJeep wrote:Pete, my position goes beyond what we should or should not eat. You misunderstood it anyways, I would not interfere in whatever diet you select for yourself, I think that's a matter of personal freedom and I would not presume to advocate - as dohboi does - one diet over another. Nor would I even pass judgement over somebody else's diet choices - as you did. Eat what you want as long as your diet does not include me or my kids or grandkids, or even endangered songbirds - because if your dietary choices do offend me (which would take some extreme choices in food) then I might be motivated enough to care about them, and take action.

I do pass judgment on others diet choices, as do you and everybody. What we eat is a very important tribal indicator . . . whether you admit it or not. dobhoi's vegan agenda is no different than a Jew's kosher diet or a football fans' tailgate cuisine (yuch)

KaiserJeep wrote:I think I understand dohboi's dietary choices. I did after all impugn his motives for such, with good reason. If you think I made a mistake, then be explicit about what, lest I think you are speaking from your nether orifice.

I believe dohboi is sincere in believing his food choices are saving the planet. But I also believe that it's an easy life-style/faux-political decision. The kind of easy politics that were spawned in the 1960's. Eating packaged vegan food takes no hard work . . . the way labor organizing would. Health/natural/organic food are an intrinsic component of the new lazy corporate Democrat paradigm. Whine and complain about AGW, 'corporate' food. None would dare admit to eating at McDonald's.

I was in the natural food business. Made a living that way. It's was truly a white middle class snob thing. Passive/aggressive behavior. Now it's gone full-on mainstream. Vegans think they are more holy than you or I. People really believe they are helping the planet when they claim their own food choices. Organic is now complete BS. I remember when it wasn't. So there :P 8)
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27072
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 14:05:36

pstarr wrote:-snip-
It has all to do with peak oil.


Well...yes. However I would say that the root cause is apes behaving as apes behave, on the planet of the apes.
Image
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 16:14:07

Well and simply put KJ
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10270
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 17:33:58

I see that I have riled up the rubes once again by simply pointing out facts that they find utterly intolerable...psychologically interesting, but intellectually...rather boring.

Ib, I actually found the title of the article to be rather tame and non-'absolute.' It said 'avoiding eating meat' not 'never eating meat or dairy ever at all not once.'

But if you want to add the preface, "for most people most of the time in most of our industrial meat producing society..." ...be my guest. :)

The rest of you, continue on with your twisting and turning rationalizations...quite entertaining to watch...again...from a purely psychological perspective. :) :)

and...just because...why not?? [smilie=drunken_smilie.gif] [smilie=eusa_dance.gif] [smilie=female.gif] [smilie=glasses12.gif] [smilie=glasses13.gif] [smilie=hal.gif] [smilie=glasses9.gif] [smilie=glasses2.gif] [smilie=happy6.gif] [smilie=happy5.gif] [smilie=happy7.gif] [smilie=happy2.gif] [smilie=happy10.gif] [smilie=happy.gif] [smilie=headbang.gif] [smilie=hello2.gif] [smilie=hello.gif] [smilie=icon_flower.gif] [smilie=icon_bigsmurf.gif] [smilie=icon_compress.gif] [smilie=icon_cyclops.gif]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyewFK-azw
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17329
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 20:44:16

And another sarcastic non answer.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 10270
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 23:38:40

He just refuses to answer the question, because he does not ever examine his beliefs.

dohboi, do you favor the humans or the planet? The only nonsense answer would be BOTH.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 02:39:19

dohboi's vegan program would not increase human population. It would kill MORE not less people.


I agree. More babies will just die from malnutrition shortly after being born.

Because with a sustainable population of humans, none of those things would be problems either


I would not want to live in this kind of civilization. Without modern technology life is pretty pointless.

Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth


Yep. We would devolve into unintelligent species over time. Veggies will never provide the energy to support the intelligent brain.
Yonnipun
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat 07 Apr 2018, 03:29:19

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 07:14:56

" Veggies will never provide the energy to support the intelligent brain."

Ah, more unsubstantiated claims.

The quality of discussion really does seem to go down hill when one attacks this kind of 'sacred cow' (so to speak :) ).
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17329
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 07:42:11

dohboi wrote:" Veggies will never provide the energy to support the intelligent brain."

Ah, more unsubstantiated claims.

The quality of discussion really does seem to go down hill when one attacks this kind of 'sacred cow' (so to speak :) ).


The quality of the discussion goes down hill when you respond to the dumbest posts and ignore the more nuanced analysis by fellow posters.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6296
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 09:14:43

NOTHING is sustainable with 8 billion currently alive.

I am fully aboard the conclusion, that humans are not apt to change very mucn in 50-100 years . And so the only effection resolution will be the OVERSHOOT PREDATOR. That predator will hurt us badly enough to want real change and simultaneously reduce our overpopulation. As Ibon said, we lost the luxury of choice and control when we passed the 2 or 3 billion mark
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9147
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 09:47:25

Nothing is in fact more disturbing than people like dohboi that have what really are political beliefs, because they were taught such, and not out of considered and reasoned thought. Such as his attitude that eating meat should be avoided so that we can cram a few more people onto an already mortally overcrowded Earth.

I'd say a great many humans hold such beliefs - even ill-considered and inconsistent beliefs such as dohboi's, because that is what they were taught to believe. The fact that somebody like dohboi can go his entire life, without questioning such inconsistent and nonsensical positions, and even teach such things to others from a position of trust as an educator, is both profoundly disturbing and another nail in our coffin, so to speak.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:01:48

"so that we can cram a few more people onto an already mortally overcrowded Earth"

I never said that, it is not my position, and it is not the topic of the thread.

Please stop misrepresenting other people's positions, and even their life history for crisake!

(Of course, all this is just more evidence that JK and company have no rational arguments or relevant data to support their positions, so the are left with the last recourses of scoundrels...rationalizations, hand waving, non-sequiturs, various other fallacies, and now character assassination.

Thanks for proving that this is a truth beyond a doubt that is a truth that cuts you so deep that it drives otherwise mostly rational folks to strike out with wildly irrational and mean positions and arguments. :) )
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 17329
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 12:22:49

OK, why are you advocating the abandonment of eating meat, if not to use the extra vegan calories to support more people? Because you have never provided any explanation, your thought processes obviously differ from more mainstream people, and none of us can fathom the reason for this ever-so-strange obsession you have with diet.

Simply explain. You have rejected all our explanations, let us hear yours. Make it explicit and include logical justifications for this bizzare behavior. Because all the primates in the world including humans are omnivores.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby Yonnipun » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 12:34:04

Ibon wrote:
dohboi wrote:" Veggies will never provide the energy to support the intelligent brain."

Ah, more unsubstantiated claims.

The quality of discussion really does seem to go down hill when one attacks this kind of 'sacred cow' (so to speak :) ).


The quality of the discussion goes down hill when you respond to the dumbest posts and ignore the more nuanced analysis by fellow posters.


http://paulcooijmans.com/evolution/eating_meat.html

The largest brains in human evolution were those of the Cro-Magnons, who were European ice-age hunter-gatherers. Meat is an major source of nutrition in the hunter-gatherer diet. The second largest brains, incidentally, were those of the Neanderthals — also hunter-gatherers — whose diet consisted mainly of meat. Current Western Europeans, according to recent D.N.A. studies, are largely descended from European ice-age hunter-gatherers, but their brains are about 300 cc smaller


Being vegetarian or vegan does not seem to have too many bad effects, and nowadays with agricultural and industrial technology we can make non-meat foods that contain any nutrients we need (except that we have no idea which nutrients we need, and except that some vegetarians are inclined to a "natural" life style and thus confronted with the paradox that a healthy vegetarian diet is only possible thanks to the use of modern technology).


http://paulcooijmans.com/profile.html

Achievement
Creating the world's hardest I.Q. tests attracting over 2000 candidates;
Yonnipun
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat 07 Apr 2018, 03:29:19

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 12:58:45

dohboi is now the most prolific poster, both overall posts and new threads. Yet he/she is woefully ignorant of the primary topic here, peak oil. Why is that?

Yet his flaky theories are of little or not interest. He would be roundly booted out of a real food forum. No one seriously buys vegan nonsense anymore, certainly not in the adult American restaurant and food industries. Other than silly preteens. We pay it lip service, as we do global warming.

Equally fascinating is that he is tolerated here. I have my theories
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27072
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 16:23:13

Pete, we are in the process of NOT TOLERATING his foolishness and BS.

Please give him space to reply with reasons and reasoning, before calling him what he appears to be.

dohboi, we are waiting for justifications for not eating meat. You have claimed such, and nobody understands what they are.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4994
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Meat Eaters Are Killing The Planet

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 18:26:47

KaiserJeep wrote:Pete, we are in the process of NOT TOLERATING his foolishness and BS.

Please give him space to reply with reasons and reasoning, before calling him what he appears to be.

dohboi, we are waiting for justifications for not eating meat. You have claimed such, and nobody understands what they are.

But dohboi does offer justifications. Misunderstood junk science misquoted by the popular press.
November 2016
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 27072
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: transientearthling and 16 guests