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Liberal's War On Science

Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Vogelzang » Mon 02 Nov 2009, 18:45:31

Everyone here needs to read this article and realize that the culture of greed is working in academia and scientific research. Can you trust all scientists?

Science in Turmoil - Are we Funding Fraud? by Dr. Jeremy Dunning-Davies 26 Sep 2009: link
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 24 Nov 2009, 12:46:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Clarified title.
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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Vogelzang » Mon 02 Nov 2009, 19:36:41

Team of Scientists' Open Letter To U.S. Senators: 'Claim of consensus is fake'
Plus: Science group 'reviewing its stance on global warming' after 160 physicists sign petition
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/3606/Team ... us-is-fake

Green subsidies aren't working!
http://www.newsweek.com/id/219295?from=rss

Keep throwing those temper tantrums. I'm enjoying it.
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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Vogelzang » Tue 03 Nov 2009, 11:35:05

Technology has foiled your evil plans. There's enough energy to last at least a hundred years. Suffer, libs, suffer!

America's Natural Gas Revolution
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj
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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Vogelzang » Tue 03 Nov 2009, 11:36:23

Veteran psychiatrist calls liberals mentally ill
Publishes extensive study on 'Psychological Causes of Political Madness'

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494
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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby rangerone314 » Tue 03 Nov 2009, 13:16:16

Vogelzang wrote:Technology has foiled your evil plans. There's enough energy to last at least a hundred years. Suffer, libs, suffer!

America's Natural Gas Revolution
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... lenews_wsj

I suppose T. Boone Pickens was right after all.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Vogelzang » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 18:39:19

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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 20 Nov 2009, 19:00:58

There's nothing like an authoratative source. :lol:
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Vogelzang » Tue 24 Nov 2009, 18:55:33

It looks like oil shale R&D is moving along.

Salazar announces oil shale lease round, addenda inquiry
http://www.ogj.com/index/article-displa ... unces.html

Info on oil shale: http://sciliterature.50webs.com/OilShaleLinks.htm


Something interesting about lease sales:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/sns-ap ... 6703.story

Salazar made the comments as he announced 38 lease sales scheduled next year on public lands, mostly in Western states. Salazar called the lease sales a sign that the administration was moving forward with a comprehensive energy strategy that includes oil, gas and renewable energy, despite what he said were false claims that the Democratic administration was hindering domestic energy development.


Salazar defended the administration's record, saying 32 onshore lease sales have been held this year, offering more than 2.7 million acres in the West and generating more than $126 million in revenue.

The 38 lease sales to be offered next year include the first sale in nearly two years in Alaska's National Petroleum Reserve, where environmentalists are seeking permanent protection from oil and gas drilling.

"Our nation needs a balanced and appropriate use of our conventional and renewable energy resources. That means oil, gas and coal will continue to play an important role in our energy mix as we develop and expand the use of wind, solar, geothermal and other renewable sources," Salazar said.
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Novus » Tue 24 Nov 2009, 19:18:58

Hate to break it to you but leases don't actually produce energy.
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Re: I have a suggestion

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 25 Nov 2009, 15:59:33

Vogelzang wrote:Proof AGW is a scam.
"A common exercise in any intro statistic class is to split the students into two groups, one group flips a coin 100 times and records the results, another just makes 100 entries up off the top of their heads. The teacher then comes back, looks at the two lists, and usually identifies which is which with hardly a glance. How? The trick is the teacher knows that on the real list, there will be several sequences of four or five in a row of all heads or all tails, whereas on the other list students will tend to stick with a more heads-tails-heads-tails alternating approach.

Now, everyone knew what I meant just now when I wrote trick, right? Nothing deceitful, simply the method used to get an answer to a math problem. With that in mind, let's look at this 1999 email purporting to be evidence of fraud among some climate scientists:

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."

The email is one of thousands sent over a period of ten years by climate researchers and other scientists, journalists, lobbyists, and the occasional flake, stolen from a university network a few days ago. DeSmogBlog has more on the theft. Obviously, emails don't change the observed reality of human assisted climate change in the cryosphere and elsewhere. Nevertheless, climate change denialists have combed through them looking for anything they can pull out of context and pass off as evidence of a global conspiracy. They're getting some media mileage out of it. Even though, so far, the best they've been able to come up with is examples like the above.

The "Mike" is Michael Mann, "hide" means to account for (See also this comment), and the trick referred to is how to resolve a question involving two sets of data. One set is the "real" actual temperature readings, the other is by proxy, tree-rings, corals, ice cores and the like. When reconstructing the temperature record going back a thousand years or more, proxies are all you get -- there were no super accurate thermometers handily placed around the globe during medieval times! But proxies only give an approximation, hence the large variance in the now familiar reconstruction graph affectionately known as the Hockey Stick represented below as shading around the blue and red lines."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/ ... 04/-Trickn
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby The_Virginian » Thu 26 Nov 2009, 20:01:55

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230943/Climate-change-scandal-BBC-expert-sent-cover-emails-month-public.html

It is indeed 4,000 e-mails, and not every e-mail screams "hey lets pull the wool over the eyes of the sheeple" but enough of them do to prove a serious point.

"George Monbiot, a leading environmentalist, said he was convinced the emails were genuine, adding: 'I'm dismayed and deeply shaken.

'There are some messages that require no spin to make them look bad."

© 2009 Associated Newspapers Ltd
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby DrBang » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 19:15:31

Politics has corrupted this wing of science. This to me is really simple to fix.

A public comprehensive audit of data.

Where data came from and in what context it was taken.

Then have an international debate regarding the robustness of this data. It is not appropriate to get an organisation like CRU to audit themselves thus it should be done in front of everybody. Other technical fields will know enough about data collection to determine if their stuff is legitimate or not. If we are in the advanced stages of implementing a global political solution then THIS SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER. If this is a problem, then research outfits like CRU have been found wanting and should be replaced.

Who Watches the Watchmen!

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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 19:41:12

DrBang wrote:A public comprehensive audit of data.



Who do you think should do the audit and are you prepared to fund such an audit?

For instance, who should audit this data?:

"Welcome to the USGS Woods Hole Science Center’s Sample Archive and Core Lab

The purpose of the Woods Hole Science Center's Sample Archive is to serve the scientific community through sample data storage and organization, to provide accurate answers to their inquiries regarding sample metadata, and to protect the physical integrity of these samples. We are committed to quality and organization in sample storage and retrieval for researchers. The archive maintains an up-to-date, accurate database so interested parties can find physical samples and metadata quickly.

Your comments are welcomed and any questions about the sample archive or sample requests can be directed to the curator.

Facilities and Sample Organization

The Core Lab consists of walk-in refrigerated and freezing cold rooms, and a laboratory and analysis facility. We are located at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) Quissett Campus, adjacent to the USGS Woods Hole Science Center's main office. The refrigerated room, designated RE01, maintains a temperature of +4º Celsius, and the freezer, designated FR01, maintains a temperature of –20º Celsius. These temperature-controlled facilities are designed to exclude the ambient environment, as fluctuations in air temperature and humidity can degrade the viability of the samples for geochemical and geophysical properties research, as well as promote organic growth. Dried samples that do not require special storage conditions are kept in the laboratory facility, designated as LAB, and long-term storage of dry samples is in our Marine Operations Facility, designated MOF.

Within each walk-in unit, located next to the main entrance is a schematic map designating storage sections into which each cold room has been divided (01 through 32 and C01 through C10 in the refrigerator, and 01 through 26 and C01 through C04 in the freezer). These sections contain shelving units, six shelves high (01 through 06, starting at the top)."

http://woodshole.er.usgs.gov/operations/ia/samples.php
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby DrBang » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 19:57:21

Ludi wrote:
DrBang wrote:A public comprehensive audit of data.



Who do you think should do the audit and are you prepared to fund such an audit?



The current set of circumstances is unacceptable. Even if the emails do turn out to be fake, then the CRU and similar bodies have a credibility problem. If they were worth the respect and authority we have been giving them (and I say this as one of the University of QLD Green reps) then they should be able to very easily supply the data tracking required to defend themselves.

Research dvisions that fail to do so invariable get accused of fraud and plagarism. Keeping data is par for the course.

With the cap & trade carbon tax, every country in the world is about to make a financial commitment based on the outcomes of the CRU based around this data. Not doing an audit now would indeed be criminal (even if it turned out to be a flase alarm).

Who pays? Perhaps the audit should be funded all of us in the same fashion that cap & trade is about to be. The frame work is there. The Copenhagen treaty is ready to go it just has to be signed. Before signing it, get all countries to contribute money for the audit.

If all is above board the cost for this should be negilable. This SHOULD be a straight forward matter. If the cost blows out, then it means that there is indeed a problem and perhaps cap & trade is inappropiate.

IMO climate change is real and is happening around the solar system. Our behaviour as a species has detracted from the planets ability to regulate itself through this period of volatility. Yes there is a lot we can do to change this. What we shouldn't do is focus on the wrong thing. The environmental cause has been hijacked for political gain. That horseshit must stop.


Now tell me why you think an audit should not happen.
For every question , there is a lie. For every lie, there is a truth. For every truth, there is a way. And for every way, there is a time. This is the time.
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 20:13:09

DrBang wrote:
Now tell me why you think an audit should not happen.



I think an audit is a great idea! Better get on it!


BTW, I think you're way optimistic about any meaningful treaty at Copenhagen.
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby DrBang » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 21:01:11

Ludi,

In my R&D department in the University I work for I have tasked two staff to start an audit of what data they can find. So far they have found a can of worms. It is so murky with lots of misrepresntation. At least some of what we have found is really inappropriate. The question is if I publish the results in some form, would someone feel that I am working for 'interest groups'?

We are doing this unfunded. I may get rapped over the knuckles for this but that is a the way it is at this time.

I guess this audit should be carried out in parallel by several outfits who have very liitle crossover. I am in mining so maybe someone in biology or pharmacuticals does the same thing?

I feel this is really important and should be done properly.

As for the Copenhagen Treaty, I feel it has very little to do with climate change and more about developing a central platform to exercise political power.

Kind Regards

Dr Bang
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 29 Nov 2009, 21:40:59

DrBang wrote:We are doing this unfunded. I may get rapped over the knuckles for this but that is a the way it is at this time.



So you're either stealing from the University or asking your people to work for nothing? :(
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby DrBang » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 00:20:34

My guys and I are doing this on our own time beacuse we think it needs to be done. The uni might get angry with us as they don't like to think there is other work being outside of what they manage.

No stealing. Volunteer basis. If people don't start doing this sort of thing off thier own bat then it will never break out of interest groups with agenda's.
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 08:14:46

Well, I hope you publish your findings. If you don't, it's kind of pointless.
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Re: Vogelzang's thread: Article--Science in Turmoil

Unread postby DrBang » Mon 30 Nov 2009, 16:28:38

Ludi,

That is the point of the exercise. Unless of course someone else overtakes me. We may have trouble getting published through offical sources though.
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