Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Liberal's War On Science

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Ibon » Sat 25 Apr 2015, 15:01:00

I will share two examples of where a subset of liberal views is anti science. I have had a good number of ornithologists and entomologists coming here to Mount Totumas. Each of these disciplines has a major conflict with liberal progressive PC anti science points of view.

Ornithologists want to eradicate feral cat populations in North America. They are responsible for billions of wild birds being killed. But these misinformed bleeding heart liberals and animal rights activists have all this displaced love and compassion toward invasive cats and dogs. A passing wild bird does not give a hoot about a human. But a little kitty cat with his infantile meow meow noise or a puppy dog with those begging eyes set liberal animal activists into a frenzy or passion to save them. This is anthropomorphism at its worst. Think about it a minute. Wild birds, native species needing native habitat to thrive, because they are not objects of human anthropomorphism, are disregarded while animal activists are building little shelters for feral cats and bringing them cat food. A non native invasive feral species getting priority over a native species. Ornithologists go bezerk over this liberal PC BS position.


Entomologists study insects. The biodiversity of insects is enormous and the taxonomy requires collecting specimens. Populations of organisms low on the food chain are not affected by collecting. It is habitat loss that endangers insects. But an entomologist seen with a butterfly net catching insects and putting them into killing jars often results in these same misinformed politically correct liberal idiots from becoming enraged. Your killing that bug. How cruel and mean you heartless scientist who just wants to dissect and identify it instead of allowing its little butterfly soul to fly free.

You see, these are deeply ignorant passions among some liberals. It shows a deep lack of ecological knowledge.

Many entomologists travel far and wide with an incredible passion toward the specific insect groups they study. They want to preserve biodiversity and their studies, often self funded result in knowledge that helps this be possible. But heaven forbid they take out their killing jars and nets in front of a bunch of liberals walking their designer dogs in the park !!! :) :) :)

Just wanted to provide some entertaining examples of liberal bias toward science. Thank You for taking the time to read this.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6039
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 25 Apr 2015, 15:06:56

Strawman much?

Animal rights activists span the entire political spectrum, and promote spaying and neutering. Most progressives are not animal rights activists, only a small subset. I personally don't like pets of any kind, and have no problem with killing off all the wild cats and dogs. The dogs especially can be dangerous. Wild cats in urban areas help control the rat population, so may serve a useful purpose, despite what bird lovers think.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
User avatar
Cid_Yama
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6952
Joined: Sun 27 May 2007, 02:00:00
Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Apr 2015, 15:21:49

I don't see it as a Liberal or Conservative war on science, but an American or Westeren war on science.

I've been reading a book recently, Amussing ourselves to Death, that addresses how radio and then television has altered out ability to form complex arguments and to reason things out. The author argues that the change from written communication to audio/video actually changes the way we function as a society. It may well also change how our brains function. It's an old book now, about 30 years. I'd like to see some more recent research.

His argument is that written language leads one to making logical arguments. Whereas audio/video leans far more heavily on other senses of sight and sound that convey emotional messages and do not rely upon convincing one, but merely manipulating the emotions. Because so much of what we are exposed to are the simple but powerful messages, in lieu of reasoned written argument, we have lost much of our ability to read and compose critically. We have lost much ability to think critically.

That cuts across all party lines. It also feel very true. I know that since we gave up on TV we now find it very inane when we are exposed to it. I don't know if it has gotten worse or if I now see it for what it is.

NPR has lost my support due their very poor reportage, biased and inane. Recently I've noticed the BBC has changed their web page and become more entertainement oriented. It getting damn tough to find any fairly decent news source.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 25 Apr 2015, 17:37:03

Well it's all a moot point because Michelle Bachmann says that Obama is bringing about the Rapture in the next couple months. For some reason she makes this sound like a bad thing because of Obama, but I thought she's be really happy about this.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/m ... times-iran
Image
User avatar
PrestonSturges
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6052
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Apr 2015, 23:31:01

CID,

I don't think Ibon is talking about feral cats in urban settings. Suburban and rural, yes!
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 26 Apr 2015, 04:00:13

PrestonSturges, I think politicians only experience rapture when a lobbyist makes a cash delivery.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby C8 » Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:48:57

The left's biggest casualty they created in the war on science was using hysteria, Hollywood and protests, in the 1970's to today, to hoodwink everyone into believing that nuclear power was a demon that will destroy us all.

Leftist France relies on something like 80% of its electricity from nuclear power and you don't see French people dropping like flies.

So we quit nuclear and ramped up fossil fuels, especially coal, which promptly led to a massive spike in CO2.

You could argue that global warming is a Democrat created monster kept alive by Republicans (and Democrats as Obama pursued an "all of the above" energy strategy.)

Democrats' attack on Republicans for Global Warming is reaching dangerous concentration levels of hypocrisy.
User avatar
C8
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013, 08:02:48

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby dissident » Sun 26 Apr 2015, 12:36:30

C8 wrote:The left's biggest casualty they created in the war on science was using hysteria, Hollywood and protests, in the 1970's to today, to hoodwink everyone into believing that nuclear power was a demon that will destroy us all.

Leftist France relies on something like 80% of its electricity from nuclear power and you don't see French people dropping like flies.

So we quit nuclear and ramped up fossil fuels, especially coal, which promptly led to a massive spike in CO2.

You could argue that global warming is a Democrat created monster kept alive by Republicans (and Democrats as Obama pursued an "all of the above" energy strategy.)

Democrats' attack on Republicans for Global Warming is reaching dangerous concentration levels of hypocrisy.


The Green Party and other "environmentalists" succeeded in shutting down the Superphenix program in France. This is an example of epic idiocy. These loons would rather have unsafe water-cooled reactors than allowing new and intrinsically safe unpressurized molten metal reactors that have a passive cooling capacity that excludes meltdowns from any regular operational state in the case of sodium and from any initial condition with molten lead. Perhaps if the Superphenix reactor was the only nuclear plant in France, then the actions of these loons would make sense. But they don't. Just luddite mob hysteria.
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4970
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Simon_R » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 07:28:17

Before we get too excited, maybe we ought to determine what is science.

the definition I get is.

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


I see no one waging a war against this.
The most we could say is some people disagree with the conclusions of other people who use science.

however changeing the title of this post to

Some people disagree with the conclusions of some other people


would be a bit tedious.
Simon_R
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu 16 May 2013, 08:28:06

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 08:51:05

Simon_R wrote:Before we get too excited, maybe we ought to determine what is science.

the definition I get is.

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


I see no one waging a war against this.
The most we could say is some people disagree with the conclusions of other people who use science.

however changeing the title of this post to

Some people disagree with the conclusions of some other people


would be a bit tedious.


The point is that bias enters into the picture even in rational science. Stephen Jay Gould, an ecologist and paleontologist, wrote extensively about this back in the 80's. His famous book, The Mismeasure of Man, explored the hundreds of cases where human bias influenced scientific work. To this day there is still ongoing controversy over some of his claims. Read here

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cro ... terminism/

Pop's post is just trying to gently nudge everyone away from a reductionist position that the political right and republicans is the sole domain of this bias.

Why do we have so many double blind controlled experiments if not to attempt to weed out inherent subjective bias?

The very polarity of liberal / conservative actually creates an ideological divide that has now cemented itself quite deeply in American culture. You do not see this quite so defined in other cultures. It almost approaches the way racism runs deep in our culture and regardless of how much one tries to not be affected by it, it remains the elephant in the room when mixed races gather. Of course there are some important exceptions but so be it.

Take GMO crops and Monsanto which perhaps is the best example of liberal anti science bias. If you go to a social gathering in Seattle for example and bring up the topic of Monsanto, just sit back and listen to the adjectives of evil and all kinds of claims regarding gmo crops that is so non scientific it borders exactly on the same level as listening to baptists from Alabama talking about evolution.

For those who are genuinely concerned about agriculture and teasing out the benefits and detriments of industrial agriculture, this kind of liberal bias is actually not helpful. Climate change has some of the same polarized issues.

I don't think there is much of an argument around the scientific consensus of climate change, but ask yourself a moment why the ideological opposition gets the traction that it does? A big reason is because of the extremes to which liberals take climate change science and project it on to their ideological beliefs.

The planet's biosphere can really give a damn about humans petty quarrels.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6039
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 10:05:55

"bring up the topic of Monsanto"

Ummmm, Monsanto is a corporation, not a science. Are you particularly enamored of this particular corp that you find it so upsetting when other criticize it?
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 16834
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Timo » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 11:11:23

I think i can sum up the discussion here by simply saying that a person's views on science, be they conservative, or liberal, also comes with emotional baggage that's inseperable from that person's ideological views on any matter, be it a corporation, a person's scientific hobby of collecting insects, or GMOs, or feticide, or anything that anyone can think of that can possibly be interpreted scientifically. Science does not mean factual, and that opens up Pandora's Box to everyone's own personal interpretations of literally anything. If there is any "war" going on, it's one side (either one) attepting to legislate their own personal interpretations of science as the law of the land, facts be damned. That may be too "thin skinned" an interpreation of this thread, but every last one of us have emotions that relate specifically to our relationship to the physical world around us. Our physical world is interpreted through various scientific methods, and we all do our best to fit those interpretations into our own emotional feelings that support our own personal ideologies. I think it is a big mistake to equate personal emotions, or personal reactions based on those emotions, as scientific views on any subject. They are not equal.
Timo
 

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 11:22:11

Timo wrote:Science does not mean factual, and that opens up Pandora's Box to everyone's own personal interpretations of literally anything.


Pardon me but I have to disagree with that.

Actually, science does mean factual. The scientific data consists of the measurements and the data, i.e. the facts.

But you are right that interpretation of that data is the problem. Both people's personal interpretations at times goes against the facts and politics sometimes goes against the facts (i.e. against science) .

Both liberals and conservatives are guilty of this. On some issues like AGW more conservatives then liberals go against the facts, and other other issues like the heritability of IQ and GMOs more liberals than conservatives go against the facts.

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20622
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Lore » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 11:33:50

You forgot evolution.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Pops » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 11:40:12

Ibon, you really gets the point I'm trying to make.
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 17642
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 12:01:56

Lore wrote:You forgot evolution.


You're right. Polling shows about 58% of Rs and 41% of Ds don't believe in evolution.

That proves my point---neither Rs nor Ds are wholly on the side of the angels when it comes to science.

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20622
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Timo » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 12:05:21

Ignorance is now a scientific discipline.
Timo
 

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 13:06:43

"neither Rs nor Ds are wholly on the side of the angels when it comes to science."

But the Rs seem to have the lion's share, in that case (and most others). :-D

On the other hand, there are all sorts of ignorance that I'm sure are pretty evenly spread across party lines.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... urvey-says

"A quarter of Americans surveyed could not correctly answer that the Earth revolves around the sun ..."

"Just over half understood that antibiotics are not effective against viruses"

Of course, in day-to-day life, the second misconception is potentially more dangerous than the first, but I still find it rather shocking.

(But then we get back to the definitely party-based looloos like: "One in four Americans think Obama may be the anti-christ" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/a ... esMichelle Bachmann recently implied this. And of course the birthers, those sure he is a Muslim...the right is indeed pretty damn chalk full of loonies--present company excepted, I'm sure! :-D :-D ETA--Oops, I see that 6% of Ds believe the anti-Christ thing!!)
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 16834
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 13:17:42

dohboi wrote:"bring up the topic of Monsanto"

Ummmm, Monsanto is a corporation, not a science. Are you particularly enamored of this particular corp that you find it so upsetting when other criticize it?


Well reasoned criticisms are valid. Demonizing this corp as many liberals do with fantastical claims of evil actually discredits the valid criticisms. It feeds into the polarization. That's all.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6039
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Liberal's War On Science

Unread postby Timo » Mon 27 Apr 2015, 13:24:21

dohboi wrote:"neither Rs nor Ds are wholly on the side of the angels when it comes to science."

But the Rs seem to have the lion's share, in that case (and most others). :-D

On the other hand, there are all sorts of ignorance that I'm sure are pretty evenly spread across party lines. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... urvey-says

"A quarter of Americans surveyed could not correctly answer that the Earth revolves around the sun ..."

"Just over half understood that antibiotics are not effective against viruses"

Of course, in day-to-day life, the second misconception is potentially more dangerous than the first, but I still find it rather shocking.

Ignorance is quantifiable. That does not mean that ignorance is a war on science. Ignorance can be closely tied to the war on funding for science (or education, in general), or even for priorities in scientific education, or even the distortion or suppression of truth in scientific discoveries. However, below the "war on science" lies the greater war on exposing, or learning the truth, and the resulting cultural advancement that comes with greater knowledge. That war is in the policy arena. Who is in control of the formation of public policy? What dangers are posed in the revelation of scientific discoveries that can advance civilization forward? Who wants to remove scientific curriculum from public education, and replace it with faith-based fantasies? Now, who wants to expand funding for scientific education and research? Who wants science education to be based on demonstrable facts, and not on religion? Who wants to answer questions that only scientific research can answer? What is the title of this thread?
Timo
 

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests