[PrestonSturges]

Sea level rise gets all the play, only because it makes a great visual on the GIS mapping models. In reality, it happens slowly. So slowly that it is slower than building depreciation.


In addition, just looking at my topo map, the Pentagon for instance is kinda on a hill, at a good 35+ft above sea level. The White House is 55+ft above sea level as well. Not to mention that "Capital Hill" really is on a hill, at a good 70 ft above sea level.

I kind of doubt that given that the Tidal Basin of the Potomac behind the Jefferson Memorial is tidal, the Washington Mall used to have a canal, and ocean going ships used to dock on the Virginia and Maryland shores. The Potomac is tidal under all those bridges up to Little Falls below Georgetown. Regardless of the actual sea level elevation +/- inches, slight sea level will cause the storm drains to back up in normal rains. Also, areas along the Potomac like Foggy Bottom have always been prone to flooding when the watershed gets a good hurricane or snow melt. What happens when the Chesapeake is a couple feet higher and the Potomac has nowhere to go? Believe me, the Potomac can get massive in hurry.

The Washington Harbor commercial complex already has floodgates, here they weren't raised. Oops! This is the sort of thing they might already deal with a couple times a year. Imagine a really good river flood with a high tide that is already a couple feet higher.

3:15 p.m. update: The National Weather Service has extended the coastal flood warning for the District, Arlington, and Alexandria until noon tomorrow. Tides are expected to be 3 to 5 feet above normal, increasing water levels to 10-10.5 feet. At 10 feet, water approaches K St. at Washington Harbor and at 10.5 feet water approaches Independence Avenue at 17th St. along the Tidal Basin and the GW Parkway at the railroad bridge north of National Airport. High tides are between 9 and 9:30 p.m. tonight, and 9:30 and 9:45 a.m. Tuesday morning.

[PrestonSturges]

And then there is storm surge. For those familiar with the area, this would show the White House with water to the south and east.

[AgentR11]

The topographic map and GIS elevations are legit. Sorry. Unless you can present a GIS source that suggests otherwise.

I'll present for your perusal...
http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=38.88923 ... z=17&b=map

[AgentR11]

For added emphasis, the mall directly West of capital hill is at 10ft or so.

Its a HILL. A real, honest to goodness, natural hill.

[Shaved Monkey]

If only politicians being issued with flood pants would cause a rethink on AGW
Unfortunately it will already be too late

[PrestonSturges]

Yes, I have walked up Capital Hill many times, thank you. That's a good map, and it shows less damage than I would have expected.

If sea level rises two meters, an additional routine flood will flood the Ellipse where the President's helicopter lands, but not into the White House itself. The storm drains will quit functioning, the underground power grid will fail, a number of Metro stations will flood, Congress' private subway will probably flood, the Smithsonian's basements could flood.

The soil engineering of that region is really dicey when it gets wet and dries out.

[SeaGypsy]

Will the consequences of human overshoot bring out a more soulful orientation parallel to all the resource wars and other nasties we conjure up in our minds.

I have always assumed this. I trust this to be the case. I also believe that hell has really been the illusion that all this human control was solid and permanent. I think human suffering maxes out at times when we buy into this illusion that insurance companies and permanent jobs and strong economies will protect you. That building up wealth and objects creates a firewall against death. It can be argued that many aspects of hell will be left behind when consequences force us to deal with the inherent impermanent nature of existence.

Part of the subliminal experience I have been reflecting on is that the most vivid expressions repeat themselves in the same locations. Couples fall in love watching the same sunset from the same hill. Wars are fought over the same ground. Evil deeds leave rifts, scars in space time, while deeds of devotion & healing leave traces of light & high vibration. Sensitivity to these fields or auras is highly variable, most people can describe at least an inexplicable event or two, others live most of their lives in the realm of ghosts & alien visitors.

The survivors will most places have great rifts, dark voids, huge healing to do. Those continuing to act unconsciously will be possessed by the ghosts of the past & continue acting out the worst of the dramas of the past. Those able to grasp together the essence of the healing required to move forward in a positive & cohesive manner have their work cut out already.

I am glad to know at least a few people who have created & begun to create venues for the next humans to get on with being better.

[AgentR11]

Which all goes to support my baseline assertion.

The 20-30 yr cycle of remodel/rebuild/restore happens much quicker than SLR. When SLR is at +5ft even; the next building appropriation will come along, and instead of x-odd mln spend on rebuild/restore, it'll be (x*2)-odd mln for buy-out with Woodmont Country Club for site of new WH/Capital/Court complex. At 400ft above MSL, and only a few miles North. Imminent Domainus Maximus!

Or heck; move the capital entirely to some Federal land near St. Louis; much more protected being deep in the interior of the lower 48. Heck, empires usually get quite the temporary boost of vitality out of a capital relocation, should work for us as well.

edit - fix cruddy rushed sentence...

[PrestonSturges]

Which all goes to support by baseline assertion.

SLR becomes obvious and undeniable long before the 20-30 yr cycle of remodel/rebuild/restore happens. When SLR is at +5ft even; the next building appropriation will come along, and instead of x-odd mln spend on rebuild/restore, it'll be (x*2)-odd mln for buy-out with Woodmont Country Club for site of new WH/Capital/Court complex. At 400ft above MSL, and only a few miles North. Imminent Domainus Maximus!

Or heck; move the capital entirely to some Federal land near St. Louis; much more protected being deep in the interior of the lower 48. Heck, empires usually get quite the temporary boost of vitality out of a capital relocation, should work for us as well.

Yes the Constitution doesn't say where the Capital will be, just that the federal government can only grab 25 square miles.

Hmmmm ....... well maybe this explains the new US Rt 48 ("Corridor H") which picks up where I-66 goes from DC to out where I-81 runs along the VA/WV border. Rt 48 is essentially an interstate highway that cuts across several 3000 ft ridges to connect with central WV, notably Moorefield which is essentially butt-fuck nowhere with a Dairy Queen and two traffic lights. And for that they needed to build an interstate over several mountains? I'm not sure why Rt 48 is not an interstate highway since it has a couple miles in VA, but maybe it got funded from a different pot of money.

Why does the ultimate "road to nowhere" connect directly to downtown DC? This picture shows the average amount of traffic, and pretty much the average population density of the area. And it snows plenty up there in the winter, right through April.

[Shaved Monkey]

If we're doomed why would we rebuild a capital ?

[Newfie]

FWIW, I'm typing from an 1887 house, our "new" house as the old one, still occupied was much older. And crappier to boot, not historic, just old.

Perhaps your 99.9% is correct if you include the adobe and stick and cardboard and wattle houses so many live in. Don't know.

We are 32' a above sea level, I seriously doubt I have anything to worry about, perhaps our daughter. We are about a mile from ghetto areas and generally surrounded buy the social refuse of our culture. (No slur on them, it's their fate, not their fault). These folks are much more vulnerable than we, much more reliant on a functioning government. Should the government fail them, well our house won't be worth much.

But back to the Cheerie thread.... WE'RE DOOMED. NOW WHAT?

What indeed, what will happen when?

We will do as all condemned men do. We will sit and wait and try to make plans for a pardon.

We will all die, someday. It's just the details and timing that are so interesting.

So terribly interesting.

[Newfie]

If we're doomed why would we rebuild a capital ?

An excellent question.

Perhaps to borrow a phrase from the movies..."Suspension of disbelief."

From Wiki.

Suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief is a term coined in 1817 by the poet and aesthetic philosopher Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who suggested that if a writer could infuse a "human interest and a semblance of truth" into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgement concerning the implausibility of the narrative. Suspension of disbelief often applies to fictional works of the action, comedy, fantasy, and horror genres. Cognitive estrangement in fiction involves using a person's ignorance or lack of knowledge to promote suspension of disbelief.

The phrase "suspension of disbelief" came to be used more loosely in the later 20th century, often used to imply that the burden was on the reader, rather than the writer, to achieve it. This might be used to refer to the willingness of the audience to overlook the limitations of a medium, so that these do not interfere with the acceptance of those premises. These fictional premises may also lend to the engagement of the mind and perhaps proposition of thoughts, ideas, art and theories.[1]

Suspension of disbelief is often an essential element for a magic act or a circus sideshow act. For example, an audience is not expected to actually believe that a woman is cut in half or transforms into a gorilla[2] in order to enjoy the performance.

[PrestonSturges]

If we're doomed why would we rebuild a capital ?

An excellent question.

Perhaps to borrow a phrase from the movies..."Suspension of disbelief."

We've always had these contingency plans, notably the nuclear bunker under the Greenbrier Resort as well as other we don't know about.

It was in the Area of Evacuation around Washington. It would become one of what was described by one official in the Office of Defense Mobilization as "a series of facilities that runs in an arc from the District of Columbia to Pennsylvania, out to Virginia and West Virginia and south to North Carolina."

http://www.greenbrier.com/Activities/Th ... story.aspx

Construction began in 1958 on the 112,544-square-foot bunker, which was built 720 feet into the hillside under The Greenbrier's West Virginia Wing. Once complete in 1961, the facility was maintained in a constant state of readiness by a small group of government employees working undercover as Forsythe Associates, a company hired by the resort for audio/visual support services.

During its Eisenhower-Era use, The Bunker provided the following:
Four entrances; three to The Greenbrier's grounds and one to the main building
25-ton blast door that opens with only 50 lbs. of pressure
Decontamination chambers
18 dormitories, designed to accommodate over 1,100 people
Power plant with purification equipment and three 25,000-gallon water storage tanks
Three 14,000-gallon diesel fuel storage tanks
Communications area, including television production area and audio recording booths
Clinic with 12 hospital beds, medical and dental operating rooms
Laboratory
Pharmacy
Intensive care unit
Cafeteria
Meeting rooms for the House and Senate, the Governor's Hall and Mountaineer room

Over the 30 years that it was an active facility, communications and other equipment were updated, keeping The Bunker at full-operation status. The location of the facility, critical to its effectiveness, remained a secret for more than three decades.

On May 31, 1992, The Washington Post published an article which exposed the facility. As a direct result, the U.S. government began de-commissioning The Bunker and ended the lease agreement with The Greenbrier in 1995.

Today, daily Bunker Tours are offered to registered hotel guests and the general public.

Where Congress would meet

Concealed blast doors

They stored food and even the medicines needed by each member of Congress

[Newfie]

Preston...i.e. et 48.

Your thoughts (and phrasing ) are interesting, and there may be something to it.

On the other hand it provided jobs and moved money around and helped some folks pay mortgages and send kids to college. If it does nothing else it did that. Which fits nicely with our consumer economy.

One could also ask why they spent a ton of money to add 4 lanes, and two medians, to more miles of the NJ Turnpike while at the same time complaining we have no money to fix bridges? And aren't we supposed to be planning for a low carbon future? It's the same everywhere, our whole culture is on a road to nowhere.

[Newfie]

Preston,

OK, understood. And maybe that's part of the Rt 48 plan.

But the question was, sorta, if we are doomed why REBUILD a capital.

Two different things, rebuild vs. contingency plans.

[onlooker]

"We will all die, someday. It's just the details and timing that are so interesting." Before though, I think we all are leaving a message here on PO. A microcosm of the wider world which will also have its awakening moment. The message to me is what is also important in terms of now what. A message that may resonate long after all of us here are long gone. A message that we can do better that we do have that potential. In the end it is a message for introspection. Do we choose life over death, creation over destruction? Profiteering and materialism are ultimately dead ends and thus about destruction. Those are questions we and all our descendants if they're any should be asking. The cumulative response to these questions may someday determine if our species carries on or not.

[PrestonSturges]

I keep meaning to go to Lost City WV when I'm out there, but somehow I've never made it....

[peripato]

Just accept it. And move on...

[Newfie]

Just accept it. And move on...

1+

what else is there to do?

[PrestonSturges]

The problem with the Greenbrier was that it was always fairly inaccessible by road from DC, so I guess Congress was supposed to be helicoptered in.

But if they have a facility out Rt48, all they need to do drive to their destination, set up a few roadblocks and they can isolate that whole part of the state. They can have the state police close access to I-66 and haul ass out of DC whenever they want. They may already have a new capital out there. There are underground rock quarries, or maybe they built under a WalMart. My choice would be to build a facility under one of those immense trucking company depots, which also gives them an excuse to haul stuff in and out around the clock. But there is also the mountain top removal wastelands. And there are plenty of wind turbines already in place out there.