LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 3 (merged)

[Rune]

If you wanted to try to prove the scam hypothesis, you would have to explain the methods and intentions of ALL the LENR companies who are claiming that their products will soon be available. There are FOUR of these companies now, with two more strong ones waiting in the wings (such as Lattice Energy, Inc), and additional possible market entrants beyond that.

Get this: Other companies besides Leonardo have LENR prototypes to fully develop and produce. And they are having little trouble raising venture capital in ordinary ways

If you have a scam hypothesis then you would have to explain ALL this sudden commercial activity. And you would have to explain how hundreds of high-level academic papers on the subject talk about excess heat in a variety of different experimental setups. You would have to explain how the Navy's SPAWAR and NASA could be so positive on LENR; the university interest, etc.

But I fully and completely understand that you need to concentrate solely on Rossi; He's the easy one to attack. And criticizing Rossi's weirdness is about all the argument that's all you are intellectually capable of mustering.

You really don't have much ability to in the way of argument or intelligence to argue against the importance of the larger set of LENR events taking place in the world. So you only say the same things about Rossi over and over again, things that are difficult to verify or falsify in the absence of any hard information. You just have a bunch of childish resentment that this thread even follows the LENR news.

It's pathetic -- but amusing.

[Rune]

Nevertheless, there is an ongoing newstream about it and several important conferences on it to follow. Claimed prototype unveiling next month, for christ sake.

No one has identified a scam for any of these new LENR companies. You just do a lot of childish finger-pointing at Rossi or off-topic BS and ignore the larger picture.

You seem completely unable to understand that this thread follows the ongoing news. I feel sorry for anyone who chooses such extravagant willful ignorance. It's sad but true.

[Prune]

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[SeaGypsy]

Had me going for a minute

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[TheAntiDoomer]

^Seagypsey if you don't like the thread go elsewhere. Besides, I though you were goign to spend the rest of your life sleeping under a tree or something.

[kublikhan]

You really don't have much ability to in the way of argument or intelligence to argue against the importance of the larger set of LENR events taking place in the world. So you only say the same things about Rossi over and over again, things that are difficult to verify or falsify in the absence of any hard information. You just have a bunch of childish resentment that this thread even follows the LENR news.It's pathetic -- but amusing.

No one has identified a scam for any of these new LENR companies. You just do a lot of childish finger-pointing at Rossi or off-topic BS and ignore the larger picture.

You seem completely unable to understand that this thread follows the ongoing news. I feel sorry for anyone who chooses such extravagant willful ignorance. It's sad but true.

Truly the most neutral news reporter in existence. One day there will be monuments built for you in your ability to stay neutral in your news reporting. How do you do it?

[TheAntiDoomer]

LENR Theories Reaching Critical Mass?
http://cleantechauthority.com/lenr-theo ... ical-mass/

Brillouine Energy, led by Dr. Godes, provided one of the keys to the recent acceleration of LENR concepts. Dr. Godes theorized that the excess heat is caused by an accumulation of Hydrogen on a metallic lattice (usually Nickel) and are converted to Helium. The excess heat is simply the result of the the chemical reaction that is taking place. To quote Godes in a recent interview:

[Ferretlover]

Truly the most neutral news reporter in existence. One day there will be monuments built for you in your ability to stay neutral in your news reporting. How do you do it?

I don't know what your stupid problem is. If you don't like what I'm interested in, don't click on the damn thread.
Please be civil. We are looking for posters with a mature attitude.

[Keith_McClary]

LENR Theories Reaching Critical Mass?
http://cleantechauthority.com/lenr-theo ... ical-mass/

Brillouine Energy, led by Dr. Godes, provided one of the keys to the recent acceleration of LENR concepts. Dr. Godes theorized that the excess heat is caused by an accumulation of Hydrogen on a metallic lattice (usually Nickel) and are converted to Helium. The excess heat is simply the result of the the chemical reaction that is taking place. To quote Godes in a recent interview:

These newly produced neutrons are soon captured by hydrogen ions

That would make deuterium.

Oh, well, a picture is worth a thousand peer-reviewed papers.

[Alcassin]

Oh, well, a picture is worth a thousand peer-reviewed papers.

Is this real?

[SeaGypsy]

Yeah of course! It's a photo from an electron microscope.

[Quinny]

I've been waiting for some solid science behind this and at last we've got a picture that explains it all!

[Rune]

Prune
permanently banned

Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:34 pm

Thank you, Ferretlover.

[Rune]

The fact is, numerous theories are being posited to account for the observed excess heat.

This is a real race because whoever delivers a credible, testable theory will be able to maximize its effect, utilize its full set of applications, be it energy or whatever else that fundamental understanding points towards.

Robert Godes has just entered HIS theory. He probably did it now because of the upcoming International Cold Fusion Conference in Korea in August.

Peter Hagelstein of MIT will be there with his own new theory as well. He has been running a LENR device since January continuously.He welcomes visitors who want to see it. He claims it has output 14 times more energy than has been applied to the system.

Even more recently is an experiment performed by MIT’s Peter Hagelstein and Jet Energy’s Mitchell Swartz. They used the same theories set forth by Godes to produce their own version of a LENR device.

What’s exciting about this project is that it has been running for 6 months in public by a reputable team at a respected academic institution. This gives the theory all the more credibility and will hopefully open the door for further study and some funding.

The energy produced by the MIT project was about 14 times more than what was put into the system...

Francesco Piantelli is expected to talk about HIS theory; Piantelli is the latest to enter the race to market products. He's now seeking investors. He's been working in the field since early days, twenty years or so.

I do not for one second believe that all these highly intelligent academics and long-time inventor/researchers are mistaken about the existence of the excess heat phenomenon. That's just silly. The effect is there.

There is a scientific theoretical race going on and there is a first-to-market race going on as well; FOUR companies now are actively seeking to develop and sell products based on this excess heat phenomenon, whatever it is. I do not for one second give the absurd notion of four actively operating LENR scams (with other scammers waiting to jump in on the action) any credibility at all.

This subject deals with energy and is relevant to peak oil, because if this all turns out to be true, the world changes utterly in fantastic ways. If you don't think this is all very interesting, you've got a horribly shuttered mind.

[cipi604]

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.fr/2012/06 ... iness.html

[Quinny]

Thanks Cif - Well at least we can get some details from Defkalion.

After reading that blog, I now understand

Just what the world needs a load of Hype (rions).

[Rune]

EU Body Recommends Research in LENR, Hails Fleischmann & Pons Effect

The European Union’s Directorate-General for Research and Innovation has published a 2012 document entitled “Industrial Technologies Material Unit Forward Looking Workshop on Materials for Emerging Energy Technologies” which identifies, summarizes, and evaluates a number of potentially useful energy technologies, and makes recommendations about them to the European Commission.

One section of the document (3.4) deals with Low Energy Nuclear Reactions in Condensed Matter. Surprisingly, the section starts out with a definition of the Fleischmann and Pons (FPE) and states without a hint of irony or qualification:

The Fleischmann and Pons Effect (FPE) is the production of large amounts of heat, which could not be attributed to chemical reactions, during electrochemicalloading of palladium cathodes with deuterium. Energy densities measured during excess of power are tens, hundreds, and even thousands times larger than the maximum energy associated to any known chemical process. On the basis of the present status of knowledge the large amount of energy may be ascribed to a nuclear process only.

The most intriguing feature of the phenomenon is the substantial lack of the expected nuclear emissions associated with the excess of power production ascribed to a deuteriumdeuterium nuclear fusion process.

Robert Duncan, Vice Chancellor for Research, University of Missouri - The Mystery of Cold Fusion

Quotes from Robert Duncan in The Mystery of Cold Fusion:

“I like to call it AHE Anomalous Heat Effect.”

From a typical 0.3 gram palladium cathode, there was regularly “heat release of about 50,000 Joules, and occasionally heat releases of over one megajoule. This clearly cannot be described by conventional chemical origins.”

“If you think that the excess heat effect is not real, you’re being oblivious to data.”

“But, I have no idea, conclusively, what’s causing it. Some propose it’s fusion. Some propose it’s a low energy nuclear reaction involving electron-weak electron capture, or something like that. There’ve been other proposals that are even broader.”

“I know it’s real. I know I don’t understand it. And that fascinates me.”

“When you see something that defies everything you think you know, that should be very motivating.”

“You don’t say, ‘I can’t study it because I don’t understand it’, you study it because you want to understand it.”

Defkalion will be presenting also at the upcoming International Conference on Cold Fusion in August. It's widely expected that they will choose that venue to reveal more about their LENR product with some theoretical input as well.

[SeaGypsy]

EU (whoever) hails Pons (and whoever) effect. Hilarious. The Ponzi effect has been powering the entire world's growth for many decades (der, like who didn't know that).

[TheAntiDoomer]

Good grief sea gypsy. Quit being such a sour puss and quit your whining and crying. If you have some good articles criticizing LENR please post them as both I and Carl would love to read them. Otherwise check out and go to sleeP under a tree lIke you promised.

[kublikhan]

Andrea Rossi today posted on his blog his most detailed comment yet about the legal strategies he is preparing to deal with those who he calls puppets, snakes and clowns.

"We know perfectly who some puppeteers are: our intelligence system is working together with the Law Firm we have engaged for this issue. We are collecting and analyzing every single phrase the Puppets, Snakes (and Clowns) are publishing in paper press and in Internet. We prefer not to sue puppets and puppeteers ( and Clowns) so far because we will be stronger when our working plants will be public: at that point we will give to the Court all the necessary evidence to win both on criminal and in civilistic fields this battle. For now we are just preparing all the necessary publications, comments, evidence, documents, addresses, etc, etc. I start the battles when I am sure to win. So far they had the sensation that our Group can be libelled for free: it is not so. All the proceeds that we will earn from these trials will be donated to families we have already selected that need money to cure the cancer of their children."

From what he says here, not only is Rossi’s group preparing to defend its intellectual property it feels has been violated (something he has often talked about), they plan to sue for libel against those he considers to be publishing falsehoods. With all negative the stuff that has been posted all over the web about Rossi, they could be very busy if they are going to carry out this action to the maximum extent.

Rossi Says His Group is Preparing for Legal Action Against Libelers

I hope all those clowns out there who dared speak against magic beans have heard this trumpet call loud and clear: Rossi knows who you are and is taking down names. He is coming for you. His law firm is already engaged. But don't worry, he will not use all of the money he wins suing your asses for himself. He will use it to cure cancer in children. God bless you Rossi.