LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 3 (merged)

[dinopello]

Back on topic...


The industrial unit is estimated to have a payback time within 2 years, based on the significant energy savings.
The domestic unit, if combined with a solar panel, the payback time is approx. 3 years, after which the customer only has small maintenance and re-supply costs

Cost Comparisons

The future is biased toward the E-Cat. In the final analysis, over time the E‐Cat is vastly more cost effective compared with conventional fuels.

Here’s a quick example:

[Rune]

Il Democratico Interviews Dr. Aldo Proia of Prometeon Ltd.

As a knowledgeable industry "insider" can you briefly explain the characteristics of the device and what impact this advent will have on the industrial market for energy?

Proia: The E-Cat heat, not unlike a gas boiler, provides hot water or steam, or heats some other fluid. Exit temperature are up to 120°C for a version of the E-Cat suitable for heating and many other common industrial processes, and about 600°C for a version designed for use in production that requires high temperatures.

Regarding the impact of using an E-Cat thermal power of 1 MW or larger, this will be significant for those companies or industries that use this technology first because our customers will gain a competitive advantage as well as a special relationship with those developing E-Cat technology as it improves and its untapped potential is realized. The market impact in numerical terms in the beginning, however, will be small because tens of thousands of industrial plants are not realized overnight.

A delicate question: it is said that the industrial market is destined to suffer "bumps" from the production/marketing of the E-Cat, and energy lobbies have consistently boycotted the theoretical work on cold fusion to prevent technical inventions which could disturb the historical balance of market power. What do you think of that?

Proia: The various interests in the energy market will have to come to terms with the existence of a sharply cheaper and cleaner way of producing thermal energy - and in a near future, also electricity. A wise stance, for an electric company, would be to cooperate with whoever holds the LENR R&D know-how - or, alternatively, the electric company might conduct basic research in the field itself.

Many new companies all over the world are concerned with LENR, and a number of multinationals, having consulted the world’s leading LENR experts, are stepping into the field to avoid getting left out. But when a product exists which is already on the market, what’s the point of taking the longer route?

It's strange that there has been no word from Ampenergo, the E-Cat distributor/manufacturer for the Americas. The last news from them was the middle of last year.

[diemos]

It's strange that there has been no word from Ampenergo, the E-Cat distributor/manufacturer for the Americas. The last news from them was the middle of last year.

Perhaps Rossi's admission to the florida government that he doesn't have a factory and his E-CAT doesn't do anything nuclear clued them in to the fact that they'd been scammed.

[Rune]

...clued them in to the fact that they'd been scammed.

How had they been scammed? No one was scammed.

The news keeps emerging from other sources like Prometeon and E-Cat Australia anyway. They seem, quite convinced.

You're going to tell me that all these licensees are going to stay totally mum out of sheer embarrassment if they find out they have been taken by a low, mean, con artist?

[EdwinSm]

The news keeps emerging from other sources like Prometeon and E-Cat Australia anyway. They seem, quite convinced.

Attached is what is supposed to be an advert from E-Cat Oz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4QeJd-Ko_8&feature=player_embedded

At about 50 seconds the advert shows solar panels on the cartoon house and says that the e-cat is powered by the "Australian sun". What is going on here - is it a fancy solar powered box or what?

[SeaGypsy]

Like arguing with an 8 year old who is convinced by a dream.

[Rune]

What is going on here?

No. According to the inventor, the E-Cat needs an electric current, at least to get started, and perhaps to remain stable afterwards. The output energy will be 6 times this amount. So you could power it with solar-derived electricity.

[Rune]

Getting the New House ready for LENR

Founder and Director of the Geiger Research Institute of Sustainable Building in Crestone, Colorado, U.S., Dr. Owen Geiger, has two engineering degrees and a doctorate in Social and Economic Development. Dr. Geiger was a former director of Builders Without Borders and his designs have been implemented in crisis situations around the world. He worked closely with Habitat for Humanity for 7 years and mentored housing officials with the United Nations Institute for Training and Research.

And, he has been researching LENR with the goal of fully-implementing this new ultra-clean energy technology into natural building. Cold fusion energy generators will initially provide hot water, clean water, home-, barn-, and garage-heating. The first small, portable units will be perfect for keeping a greenhouse warm for those in higher latitudes.

The Torus is “the first home specifically designed for the E-Cat/LENR fusion energy system”, according to Geiger. “E-Cats or Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) technology, promises clean, nearly free energy that will likely rank as one of the most important discoveries in history.”

Man, there are more and more high-profile, qualified people who seem to have been thoroughly convinced that the E-Cat technology is real and imminent.

Like I said, if you think this whole thing is a big scam, then you MUST believe that there will soon be a major, calamitous crash of LENR interest once this thing is proven a fraud.

[diemos]

The Torus is “the first home specifically designed for the E-Cat/LENR fusion energy system”, according to Geiger.

What a bunch of gibberish. In theory a LENR would be plug compatible with any other boiler technology. There would be no modifications to a home that need to be made.

Like I said, if you think this whole thing is a big scam, then you MUST believe that there will soon be a major, calamitous crash of LENR interest once this thing is proven a fraud.

A cursory study of the history of free energy scams (including cold fusion) would indicate that it will continue to be the domain of hobbyists, dreamers and scammers forever. There will be an endless parade of inventors about to reveal their world changing discovery ... any ... day ... now. Except, of course, that the evil government / corporate conspiracy is going to suppress their discovery.

ORBO anyone?
Cars that run on water?

BlackLight Power has been going to demonstrate their Hydrino based energy system ... any ... day ... now since 1991 with a perfect record of delivering absolutely nothing while sucking down about $100M in investor money.

Which is why I am confident that this thread will provide me with entertainment for the rest of my life.

[EnergyUnlimited]

It seems that US.mil is already LENR ready:

[SeaGypsy]

LENR/ position firmly wedged between bargaining and denial.

[SeaGypsy]

According to the inventor, the E-Cat needs an electric current, at least to get started, and perhaps to remain stable afterwards. The output energy will be 6 times this amount. So you could power it with solar-derived electricity.

This simply does not make any sense. If the thing did what it is touted to do, it can easily self feed a portion of it's own output back to itself. The technology for turning heat into electricity has been around for a very long time.

[kublikhan]

A cursory study of the history of free energy scams (including cold fusion) would indicate that it will continue to be the domain of hobbyists, dreamers and scammers forever. There will be an endless parade of inventors about to reveal their world changing discovery ... any ... day ... now. Except, of course, that the evil government / corporate conspiracy is going to suppress their discovery. ...
Which is why I am confident that this thread will provide me with entertainment for the rest of my life.

+1
I am not anticipating any major, calamitous crash. Just an endless parade of failed promises. Suncube anyone? How about Rossi's thermoelectric generators? No crash, yet they still got paid. I guess that puts a kibosh on the idea of a major crash.

[vision-master]

This simply does not make any sense. If the thing did what it is touted to do, it can easily self feed a portion of it's own output back to itself. The technology for turning heat into electricity has been around for a very long time.

Ele turbine must be implemented within e-cat.

Turbines use high PSI steam to spin the genny. Give it time ol sea hag buddy.

[Rune]

This simply does not make any sense. If the thing did what it is touted to do, it can easily self feed a portion of it's own output back to itself. The technology for turning heat into electricity has been around for a very long time.

According to Rossi, it CAN run self-sustained. We don't know a whole lot about the actualities of the thing yet. Apparently, there have been extensive modifications since his comments in 2011 regarding the stability of the system. So that's why I said "perhaps to remain stable afterwards".

[EdwinSm]

Thanks

No. According to the inventor, the E-Cat needs an electric current, at least to get started, and perhaps to remain stable afterwards. The output energy will be 6 times this amount. So you could power it with solar-derived electricity.

I looked some more at the home pages of E-Cat Australia and come upon the following relating to the domestic system: "E-cat input power equals 7.6 kWh per day which produces 90 kWh of thermal heat per day" (link: http://www.e-cataustralia.com/benefits/ ) so to my mind it looks as if it is constant input to drive the system.

Anyway, the 6:1 factor of heat production is about twice that of the ground-heat exchange pump system that I have, so that is looking good, but it is not of an order of magnitude higher than existing technology.

A further reserve for domestic use is the water temperature. The home pages talk of 100 C, which for a domestic system is too hot - my system is set for 45 - 50 C with the occasional (every 2-3 weeks) 70 C to kill any germs. This rate is good enough for both showers and heating the house (even down to -25 C outside). On the application area I wonder if the use of boiling water would waste energy, and also increase the danger, unless the boiling water is only heating the hot water tank and is not mixed with the water used in the house (loss of efficiency here?).

In the worked example, with the e-cat unit producing only 50% of capacity it is equivalent of over 15 000 kWh input per year. This is twice what I use for a large house in Northern Europe which includes heating for a long winter. To my mind this indicates a huge waste of energy, but it probably reflects the reality of a rich standard of living.

[vision-master]

Mixing valves my friend, just like what commerical applications use........

Doms HOT water should NOT be over 110 F...... @ -20 F building heating water will most likely be around 180 F.

[Rune]

ORBO anyone?
Cars that run on water?

BlackLight Power has been going to demonstrate their Hydrino based energy system ... any ... day ... now since 1991 with a perfect record of delivering absolutely nothing while sucking down about $100M in investor money.

There is NO comparison between Steorn or "cars running on water" and whatnot because of the sheer magnitude of heavy interest by top universities, well-respected physicists, the military, NASA, DARPA, some dozen or more LENR companies in various stages of commercialization, a dozen or so competing theories attempting to fully explain the excess heat phenomenon, etc., etc.

There NEVER was this much impressive support for any other "free" energy device. And LENR is NOT a "free" energy science. It utilizes hydrogen or deuterium-loaded palladium or nickel to elicit a poorly-understood quantum effect. The compairson to Steorn is ridiculous.

Anyone wanting an introduction or a refresher on the enormity of interest worldwide in LENR science can look at this newly created slideshow:

LENR Education — Slideshow by Tyler van Houwelingen

Are you so dim that you need a Walmart E-Cat in order to perceive that there is something truly game-changing in the offing? Sounds like it.

That's like saying you would not be able to recognize the picture in a jigsaw puzzle if even a single piece were missing. I'm pretty much convinced that you would not be able to.

[dave333]

rumor about what might come out ICCF 17, Korea, 12-17 august?
http://lenrnews.eu/?p=271

[Rune]

rumor about what might come out ICCF 17, Korea, 12-17 august?
http://lenrnews.eu/?p=271

Almost everyone in the above is expected to have VERY interesting things to say. There are only a couple of names there that I am not familiar with, (Forsely and Meulenberg).

The rumor is that Defkalion will make a very important announcement about its Hyperion products. But no guarantees because this story we are following is full of surprises and disappointments. For example, Defkalion announced recently that it will have to leave Greece due to that country's horrible economic condition. Will this cause a delay? I don't know.

So it's no good to look at just one actor in the drama (like only looking at Rossi, or only looking at Defkalion). You pay attention to the whole picture and what ALL the scientists, researchers and LENR companies are saying about the overall subject. For me, this is what makes this story so compelling. I don't need Walmart-certainty to see that where there is so much smoke, there must be a raging fire somewhere.

Just look at the caliber of the scientists involved and the frequency of these worldwide conferences as well as the more local university-sponsored seminars like the one that was just held at The College of William & Mary or the several that have taken place at MIT. I think 4-5 universities now have LENR-dedicated programs that are well-funded and doing basic research - like the University of Missouri's research program headed by Dr. Robert Duncan.

So, I'll be like a little kid in a candy store when the news emerges from ICCF-17. I'll take the good news with the bad, unflinchingly. Hopefully a few more pieces of the jigsaw puzzle will be put into place. I wouldn't put out of the realm of possibility that something earth-shattering comes out of it.