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LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Thu 31 May 2012, 13:48:31

Current Status of LENR

Science: The subject of LENR was a legitimate field of scientific inquiry from its origins in 1989, even though it was not viewed as such by many people. It remains a challenging complex of nuclear and atomic physics. Many types, characteristics and reactions of nuclei have been implicated during the experimental study of LENR. There are also many relevant factors at the atomic level, including molecular and solid-state effects. The role of a lattice of atoms is widely recognized, although questions remain about the details, including compositional and structural factors. It is still debated whether LENR occur exclusively on surfaces or also in the interiors of lattices. Similarly, the question of whether there is only one or more mechanisms active to produce LENR and their diverse results is unresolved. In short, the study of LENR remains a very open and challenging field at a basic science level, despite all of the experimental and theoretical work over the past 22 years.

Technology: Even though LENR are not understood conceptually, it is possible that they can be made to do something. Whether or not what can be done based on LENR is useful for anything, including making money, is a separable issue. Once it was shown experimentally that the production of excess power and heat were possible, LENR could be considered a source of thermal energy. Of course, if the produced heat were too little, or the resulting temperatures too low, the source would not be useful. A few experiments during the first 20 years of the field demonstrated the ability to boil water. This has lead to the vision of practical applications, which may be realized in the current time frame.

Engineering: If a new effect might actually be useful, it is necessary to design, fabricate and test prototypes of possible products. The effect has to be both reproducible and controllable. That is, prototype energy sources must be able to be turned on, ramped up, held constant, ramped down and turned off. This is entirely similar to the control widely available for automobile engines. During the past two years, Andrea Rossi has engineered prototype energy sources based on LENR. After their design and fabrication, they have been tested repeatedly in recent months. Many of the descriptions and results of those tests are available on various web sites. The conduct, data and interpretations of the tests are widely discussed now, without any agreement on the most fundamental points. It remains to be seen how the commercial sources being developed by Rossi perform, and if they are reliable for useful periods of time.

Commercialization: The prototypes that Rossi produced and tested are now the basis of products being manufactured. Demonstration of a nominal 1 MW LENR generator occurred on 28 October 2011. It is the first commercial LENR energy source. Over a dozen units have reportedly been sold to an unidentified customer. 5 kW products are anticipated. Please see: http://ecat.com/ A start-up company in Greece, Defkalion Green Technologies, is also offering kW-scale LENR based sources for sale next year: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/H ... er2011.pdf Ambitious plans to produce thousands of such sources annually were announced by Defkalion during 2011. Widespread use of small and distributed LENR energy sources, which are safe and green, free of dangerous immediate radiation and radioactive waste, would have substantial environmental benefits.

Education: If, as planned, many energy sources based on LENR are produced and sold, it will be necessary to educate a workforce in their design, manufacture, installation, maintenance and other functions. This will require knowledgeable managers, engineers, technicians and sales people. Hence, NUCAT Energy is offering commercial short courses on LENR. The first was near Washington DC in October 2011 and the second is planned for the same region in the spring of 2012. A summary of the first course is at: http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazi ... nucat.html The company will also provide on-site lectures and courses at places and times specified by customers.


If you are not interested in this whole burgeoning subject ...and you claim to pay attention to energy... you're basically full of BS.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Thu 31 May 2012, 14:13:31

Short Course: Instructors
The instructors for this course were seven internationally known scientists and engineers, who have been active contributors to the LENR field for all or much of its history. They are listed in the order they appeared in the course.

David J. Nagel, PhD, is a Research Professor at The George Washington University and CEO of NUCAT Energy LLC. He has contributed to this field as a scientist and manager since its origins in 1989. Dave participated in all 16 of the International Conferences on Cold Fusion (ICCF), and chaired ICCF-14. His primary activity has been and remains writing technical articles on LENR.

Michael E. Melich, PhD, has been a Research Professor at the Naval Postgraduate School since 1985 and focuses on potential technology breakthroughs of great importance to national defense. From the 1989 Fleischmann-Pons announcement, Mike has done research and published papers on LENR. He has attended all 16 of the ICCF and co-chaired ICCF-14.

Michael C.H. McKubre, PhD, is Director of the Energy Research Center at SRI International. He has been active in this field as an experimentalist since 1989. Mike researched the palladium deuterium system from 1978. He presented at all 16 of the International Conferences on Cold Fusion, and was co-chairman of ICCF-4. His primary expertise includes electrochemical kinetics, metal-hydrogen systems and calorimetry.

David A. Kidwell, PhD, has been a Research Scientist at the Naval Research Laboratory, Washington DC since 1982. His expertise is in trace analysis by mass spectrometry, and instrument and software design. David has been active in this field since 2005, first working on detection of transmutation products (not conclusively found), and later developing gas loading systems using nano- and sub-nanometer particles of palladium on various supports.

Kenneth S. Grabowski, PhD, is a Research Physicist in the Naval Research Laboratory. He was educated in Nuclear Engineering, and has followed and contributed to the study of LENR since 1989. Ken has monitored numerous LENR experiments to measure nuclear reaction by-products, and has participated in rigorous measurements of excess heat from gas loading and electrochemical experiments.

Ashraf Imam, DSc, FASM, is a Research Metallurgist at Naval Research Laboratory and Adjunct Professor at The George Washington University. He has over 200 publications in a variety of refereed journals. They are a clear testimony forAshraf as a researcher and teacher in the area of Materials Science and Engineering. He has been involved in materials related issues in LENR since its origins in 1989, and holds two U. S. patents on materials for LENR.

Peter L. Hagelstein, PhD, an Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at MIT, is an applied physicist. Peter has worked on anomalies associated with the Fleischmann-Pons experiments since 1989. The focus of his research in the field has been to understand the new LENR physical mechanisms. Peter was Chairman of ICCF-10 in 2003.


Pretty complex scam, huh?
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Thu 31 May 2012, 15:59:45

Controlled Electron Capture Reaction (CECR)

An animated description of the physics that underlie the the phenomena previously known as Cold Fusion. This show the reaction can be driven using pulses of electricity through the lattice.


Another name for the same effect.

Whether or not it is right or wrong or partially right or whatever - this is the best explication I've seen of the quantum processes which yield significant amounts of measurable energy.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 31 May 2012, 16:11:11

Cog wrote:
vision-master wrote:This place is loaded with pricks.


We love you too VM.


Whilst you are perhaps a balloon full of hot air? Or the funny smelling smoke?
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 31 May 2012, 16:37:26

Gypsy Queen, I hear you're a trust funder like Planted....... lsol
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 31 May 2012, 17:11:51

Yeah man my ancestors are rich. They had me out picking pumpkins at dawn from 12 years old on Sundays and 5.00 am paper rounds the others, to pay for my hugely expensive habits: roller skating and surfing. I have either rented or been homeless for my entire life since I was 15, when I was booted out for taking my mum's mayoral Volvo for a spin. I have never had more than $7k in the bank and I have never bought a car less than 5 years old. I would have a lot of trouble scratching up $10k. I have never been able to afford the time to get an education as I have always had to earn, so what status I have at work came from work, not from connections or bits of paper. So ok call me a silver spooner if you like. If you are correct I shall find out at the reading of my mother's will. By then I shall likely be in my late 60's. If I become rich I shall visit and share some fine kush with you.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby diemos » Thu 31 May 2012, 23:28:54

Rune wrote:There are now so many organizations, some of which are highly reputable, reporting this phenomenon
although none of them can actually produce a working device for independent third party testing
Rune wrote:that we now seem to be
stuck in
Rune wrote:the stage of calling all these observations fraudulent or the result of improper measurements.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby diemos » Thu 31 May 2012, 23:41:58

Rune wrote:Enough
baseless claims
Rune wrote:have been released by the various experimenters to conclude that the effect being reported is not "conventional" nuclear fusion
, or any other kind of fusion for that matter,
Rune wrote: such as takes place in the sun or a hydrogen bomb and which requires extremely large amounts of energy to initiate.


Rune wrote:Bushnell reports that NASA is currently
desperately searching for a new mission to keep their funding going now that manned space flight is kaput.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Thu 31 May 2012, 23:59:26

NASA has plenty of missions. The space cargo business is being privatized by the likes of SpaceX and Burt Rutan's company. Plenty of foreign competition in the business, etc. The Shuttle wasn't good at that sort of thing.

It's nice to see you desperately making up lies.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby X-prize » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 02:59:01

What's Up with these?

http://www.opensourcelenr.com/

http://shutdownrossi.com/

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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 04:37:14

That there is unlimited power available in the atom.
Unlimited clean, green, non-polluting, modular, and personnel energy for heating, cooling, electricity, fresh water, transportation, farming, industry, space operations, etc.
That this power so far has been tamed for only military and corporate interests.
That low energy and low temperature, atomic and nuclear energy creating reactions are possible.
That the world has only seen the tip of the iceberg in our understanding of reality relating to things like the mind, mass, space, and time.
That if Rossi continues his farce till completion, he will do more damage to the LENR field then all other opposition since 1989.
That the world now has a truly open source project to tame the power in the atom for all people. It is the Open Source LENR Project. See it here: http://www.opensourcelenr.com/
It will take a while to get all of the pages populated with the relevant information, because I am only going to spend a little of my spare time on this project. So check back often for updated information.

Joy & Peace
Gary Wright
May 28, 2012

"They" have got 'free energy' conspiracy nutter....
Whenever I meet one I can't resist asking if 'they got all this unlimited free energy, oil is a marketing scam' I can't help asking why then don't they use this 'unlimited energy' to catch CO2 and turn it into oil? They could do it in secret or whatever and save a lot of nasty wars? More sillyness as the century of idiocracy gets into it's second decade.... 8)
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby diemos » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 08:48:56

http://nucat-energy.com/nucat-energy-leadership/

NUCAT Energy Leadership

David J. Nagel deals with technical and programmatic functions of the company. He received a BS degree in Engineering Science (Magna Cum Laude), an MS degree in Physics and a PhD in Materials Engineering. During a half century, Dave has had three successful careers: Officer in the US Navy. After graduating first in his Naval ROTC class, he had four years of active duty and 26 years of reserve service, including three tours as a Commanding Officer. He retired in 1990 with the rank of Captain, U. S. Naval Reserve. Federal Government Scientist and Manager. Dave joined the civilian staff of the Naval Research Laboratory after his active duty. As a member of the Senior Executive Service and leader of a physics division for over a dozen years, he managed the experimental and theoretical research and development efforts of 150 government, contractor and other personnel, including 80 PhDs ($30M/year). University Teacher and Researcher. For the past dozen years, Dave has been a Research Professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering of The George Washington University. He taught graduate level courses on MEMS and NanoTechnology. Now, Dave mentors both undergraduate and graduate students. His current research centers on low energy nuclear reactions.

Carol Ann Nagel provides financial and administrative functions for the LLC. Her academic background is in business. During her twenties, she set up the accounting system for a new company, while also working in the banking industry in Chicago. Carol worked briefly in a law office, and was a manager for a sales company for several years. Later, she did the accounting and taxes for three family-owned corporations in Arlington, Virginia, for over a dozen years.


Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. Get 40 people down to the local holiday inn and that's $60K. Do that three times a year and I'm earning $180K a year. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 09:00:43

diemos wrote:http://nucat-energy.com/nucat-energy-leadership/ ...
Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.

$1500 ain't s*** for people with a genuine business interest. Talk to some of the leaders in the field, charge it to corporate, take deductions, networking and all that... Happens all the time.

I guess for anonymous internet Ad hom deleted. that's a lot of money. You'll just have to read this thread. Now, go off on some anti-capitalist rant like a good communist.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 18:17:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Ad hom deleted.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Alcassin » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 15:00:57

diemos wrote:Now my wife and I have moved on to my fourth career of running "free energy" seminars at $1500 a head for a two day course. Wow. Get 40 people down to the local holiday inn and that's $60K. Do that three times a year and I'm earning $180K a year. I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Doing seminars on imaginary technology is sure a lot more lucrative and easier than any of my previous real jobs.

It is, but you have to sell good bulls*** story (the more innovative it sounds the better). And then you have to get some radical followers (like Randi's hoax - Carlos).
I saw that in NLP and other new age stuff. NLP business just blossoms on human ignorance, hope and fear. It's not hard to see a very similar pattern in other imaginary "technologies".
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 15:34:03

Alcassin wrote:I saw that in NLP and other new age stuff. NLP business just blossoms on human ignorance, hope and fear. It's not hard to see a very similar pattern in other imaginary "technologies".


Or in your case, an imaginary imaginary technology.

Even Tom Whipple of Peak Oil Crisis fame has said that too much evidence has been observed and that there are now upwards of six different competitive business interests involved in a race to market; said the scam hypothesis was "absurd"

Tell Tom Whipple its all imaginary... the rest of his stuff must be too, I suppose.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Alcassin » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 16:08:55

Argument from authority.
Show me one working device that's not connected to the electric grid. Then maybe I may lose some reservations, but I have got more of them while reading your "coverage". Creationists watch "The Flintstones" if it were documentary, and you watch "The Jetsons" in the same fashion.

The scam hypothesis isn't absurd, we have huge hype about the stuff, that's all. Moreover I wrote that I think many people like Piantelli have a benign faith in those things. I'm rather keen on thinking that there are people who really believe it, some bad scientists, just like in homeopathy, and others are pathological scammers and liars - like Rossi. Faith and ignorance are just a good ground for frauds.
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Fri 01 Jun 2012, 16:50:50

Alcassin wrote:Argument from authority.
Show me one working device that's not connected to the electric grid. Then maybe I may lose some reservations...


So far we an effect with highly exothermic properties that are not well understood, as Dr. Nagel explained.

Operational prototypes are forthcoming from Defkalion in July/August and Leonardo in October 2012. In the meantime, this thread follows developments in LENR whatever they may be.

Why is this so hard for everyone here to understand?
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Rune » Sat 02 Jun 2012, 01:57:19

When you go up against "Carlhole" you know you're going to lose.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Alcassin » Sat 02 Jun 2012, 05:22:32

Rune wrote:When you go up against "Carlhole" you know you're going to lose.


Humbleness and modesty by a true believer. :lol:
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
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Re: LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sat 02 Jun 2012, 06:58:22

Rune wrote:Operational prototypes are forthcoming from Defkalion in July/August and Leonardo in October 2012. In the meantime, this thread follows developments in LENR whatever they may be.

I thought that Leonardo is already selling such prototypes... to phantom military customers :-D
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