LENR, Rossi and the ECAT Thread pt 2 (merged)

[Rune]

“Reviving Cold Fusion” — The American Chemical Society covers LENR

The most recent issue of the American Chemical Society’s Chemical and Engineering News magazine includes an article entitled, “Reviving Cold Fusion.” written by Steven K. Ritter. The brief summary reads, “After 20-plus years of outcast status, unconventional heat-producing nuclear reactions still seem plausible”. The ACS does not permit its publications to be published for free online, and copyright restrictions allow me to only provide selected excerpts here.

The article is really a review of the history and current state of LENR, much of its content is what people following recent developments in LENR research already know. Ritter contacted a number of people involved in the field, including Dennis Bushnell of NASA, Robert Duncan of the University of Missouri, Steven B. Krivit of New Energy Times, and Andrea Rossi. Quite a bit of the article is devoted to describing Rossi’s E-Cat, and emphasizes that as yet it is unproven.

Ritter contacted a number of people involved in the field, including Dennis Bushnell of NASA, Robert Duncan of the University of Missouri, Steven B. Krivit of New Energy Times, and Andrea Rossi. Quite a bit of the article is devoted to describing Rossi’s E-Cat, and emphasizes that as yet it is unproven.

Bushnell maintains that, “From more than two decades of experiments producing heat and transmutations, ‘something’ is real and happening.”

Krivit says of the E-Cat, ““Rossi has no credible evidence for his extraordinary claims, I have stopped paying attention to him.”

Duncan states, ” “I don’t need to have an opinion about the E-Cat. Nobody does. Rossi is claiming to be going commercial with it. If he does deliver to the marketplace, then the marketplace will decide the efficacy of the technology.”

Duncan explains that his work at the University of Missouri is focused on trying to understand the scientific origin of the anomalous heat effects in LENR, and is not involved in commercial pursuits. Duncan also says, “I like to call it an anomalous heat effect rather than cold fusion or a low-energy nuclear reaction,” Duncan says, “because we still don’t know exactly what the mechanism is.”

The article is positive on the reality anomalous heat effects attributed to LENR.

[Cog]

Duncan says, “because we still don’t know exactly what the mechanism is.”

Turn off the diesel generator running in the background and you might be able to figure it out.

[Ferretlover]

Off topic, inappropriate posts deleted. Please stay on topic.

[vision-master]

Cold Fusion device at M.I.T.

Here's a video of a Cold Fusion device called the NANOR at M.I.T. It is a small, low temperature, classroom research model invented by Mitchell Swartz (I misspelled his name in the credits) and has been monitored at the classroom of Professor Peter Hagelstein at M.I.T. for five months, producing 10 - 14 times more energy than it takes to run it.

[Rune]

Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, the Realism and the Outlook by Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center

The current situation is that we now have over two decades of hundreds of experiments worldwide indicating heat and transmutations with minimal radiation and low energy input. By any rational measure, this evidence indicates something real is occurring. So, is LENR "Real?" Evidently, from the now long standing and diverse experimental evidence. And, yes - with effects occurring from using diverse materials, methods of energy addition etc. This is far from a "Narrow Band" set of physical phenomena.

The next consideration is "What is real? What is happening?" For NASA Langley, the epiphany moment on LENR was the publication of the Widom-Larsen Weak Interaction LENR Theory. It is currently under study and experimental verification (or not) at Langley. The theory appears to explain nearly all the various and often variegated experimental observations and shifted the LENR theoretical focus from some way of "fooling" Particle Nuclear Physics/The Strong Force to Condensed Matter Nuclear Physics, Collective Effects, The Weak Force and "Heavy Electrons."

Therefore, the LENR situation and outlook is the following:

• Something real is happening.
• The weak interaction theories suggest what the physics might be.
• There are efforts ongoing to explore the validity of the theories.
• There are continuing Edisonian efforts to produce "devices" mainly for heat or in some cases transmutations.
• There are efforts to "certify" such devices.
• NASA LaRC has begun LENR design studies guided by the Weak Interaction Theory

No promises, but some seriously "strange" things are going on, which we may be closer to understanding and if we can optimize/engineer such, the world changes. Worldwide, it is worth far more resources than are currently being devoted to this research arena. There is a need to core down and determine "truth" and if useful, the need to engineer and apply.

e-catworld (w/video)

Simultaneous to the release of Bushnell’s article is a video featuring NASA’s Dr. Joseph Zawodny, Senior Research Scientist at Langney Research Center entitled Abundant Clean/Green Energy. Zawodny’s focus in the video is also on the Widom-Larsen theory, and explains how they are trying to test its correctness.

The ultimate goal, according to Zawodny is to find a way to create an inexpensive, clean form of energy which could be used not only by NASA in its space operations, but also something that could provide cheap, abundant energy for the whole world.

Let the vehemence and moronic vitriol begin again.

[Ferretlover]

Let the vehemence and moronic vitriol begin again.

The prospect of a world with a hopeful future scares me and invalidates many of my life choices, so rather than just wait for things to play out like a stable self confident adult I am instead going to attack you on a personal level, dig up already disproven arguments and generally just indulge in moronic rabble-rousing in order to justify my own belief/lifestyle/choices that are based on a doomer outlook for the future.
Like that, right?

Moderator's note: Not if you want to continue posting here. Stay on topic please.-FL

[Ming]

Hole:

Since no other replies popped up, I will do my part to keep this very amusing thread alive:

This new post is vacuous propaganda from someone that is trying to get more money for his research groups.
He paints his pig in bright colours (and goes as far as to include in his propaganda meme the "efforts to produce "devices"", clearly trying to use in his favour the successive scams that keep popping up) but (still) he is careful enough to include small back up statements like "No promises, but..."

All he is saying is "this is an interesting field, and I want to be a top cat studying it (I prefer to dally in this funny stuff instead of spending my time with serious hard science), so give me money; naturally I make no promises, but give me money; this is interesting and I want to study it (although I promise nothing), so give me money; please, please, please".

In short:
This kind of text is NOT what we all need to keep coming to this wonderful thread, and to keep commenting on it!
We need fresh news about the wondrous machines that are being developed/built/sold, that will shortly transform our world in a free (or almost free) energy paradise!
And we need YOU to keep us up to date on these amazing progresses!
Please keep posting on Rossi, Defkalion, etc.!
(Please, please, please?)

[Cog]

Apparently black holes are involved in LENR since every working model sold ends up in one.

[Ming]

Damn, seems I took too long writing my reply (even us trolls sometimes have to work, and I had to interrupt for some moments my writing on this post), and when I finally posted it, it was no longer needed to keep your killer instincts alive (since I believe NickyBoy did a good job on that).
But at least now you know there are more that one reader interested in accompanying you journey though all this revolutionary and wonderful area of ... (of what? "knowledge" is not the best world for it… maybe "interest"?)

Please keep us posted!

[Rune]

Please keep posting on Rossi, Defkalion, etc.!)

ok

[Cog]

I miss the earlier days while the scam of LENR was not fully understood. Now its got boring with just re-hashed news from free energy forums and press releases from scammers. Where are the flawed experiments and the mystery buyers who disappear into the aether? Rune is going to have to start inventing some news to keep my interest in this thread. The bigger the whoopers you can come up with the better.

[Rune]

The bigger the whoopers you can come up with the better.

NASA is pretty big.

[Cog]

Perhaps you could guide me to the location of NASA's working LENR device. I would like to visit them and speak with them about it.

[Rune]

Perhaps you could guide me to the location of NASA's working LENR device. I would like to visit them and speak with them about it.

I must have had to tell you a hundred times that I am following this developing LENR story - as are thousands of people worldwide. But you are unable to comprehend this simple idea.

If it were a done deal and e-cats were available at Home depot already, why would a thread like this exist? This thread follows the ongoing story to whatever denouement finally unfolds.

I just can't believe that anyone would have trouble understanding this simple thing. It boggles my mind and makes me feel very sad for you.

[AgentR11]

The problem is the "coverage" in this thread is more akin to an advertisement for speculative venture partners with too much money on their hands. "Coverage" would dictate significant skepticism over any unproven claims made by those involved with the supposed product. That skepticism is very lacking amongst those pretending to be providing "coverage".

If it's "coverage" that you are truly attempting, then Cog and others are mightily assisting you by providing the deserved skepticism. You shouldn't be sad for them, you should feel grateful to them.

[Rune]

The problem is the "coverage" in this thread is more akin to an advertisement for speculative venture partners with too much money on their hands. "Coverage" would dictate significant skepticism over any unproven claims made by those involved with the supposed product. That skepticism is very lacking amongst those pretending to be providing "coverage".

Everyone is skeptical and waiting for the undeniable evidence. This has been the case since the get-go. No one says anything new by saying this. Of course, everyone wants proof! This is the baseline condition. It's just as obvious as the nose on your face.

Yet, the news continues to emerge. Multiple researchers and institutions have expressed strong interest. there are business interests and venture capital involved. the story continues to develop. So we watch it develop here in this thread. I have no crytal ball; I don't claim to know what will happen in the LENR field in the next several months or next few years.

But interest by high-level academics, scientists, researchers, and business people assure that this story will continue to be interesting as hell as details, news and evidence emerges.

If you don't think it is interesting as hell; feel free not to click on this thread.

[Cog]

I think you mistake my intentions here Rune. I was absolutely in heaven watching Rossi cobble together an old radiator, hook some hoses and a generator to it, and generate real live steam. It absolutely made my day to watch a project come together in such a dramatic way. Put me in mind of some of the old Frankenstein movies. You know the ones with the electricity arcing across Tesla coils and big buss bars taming the power of the universe.

This is how science needs to be done. Theories are fine for the eggheads but I want action. I want to see gauges, tubes, boiling water, explosions, mad scientists, the whole shooting match.

Please post links to any more of these demonstrations that you come across.

[Rune]

I want to see gauges, tubes, boiling water, explosions, mad scientists, the whole shooting match.

You have a gift of saying the completely obvious.

While waiting for these promised things, the story's details emerge and we follow these developments in this thread. Do you finally understand this now?

I can't believe your having trouble with a simple idea.

Damn! that's pretty bad...

[Rune]

The Peak Oil Crisis: The Edisonian Approach

For those of you who came in late, we are talking here about claims from roughly a dozen scientists, entrepreneurs, and small companies around the world that they are measuring heat being released in such quantities that it can only be from nuclear reactions. This occurs when they subject hydrogen loaded into various metals to heat or electromagnetic pulses. There are now so many organizations, some of which are highly reputable, reporting this phenomenon that we now seem to be past the stage of calling all these observations fraudulent or the result of improper measurements. Enough information has been released by the various experimenters to conclude that the effect being reported is not "conventional" nuclear fusion of deuterium atoms such as takes place in the sun or a hydrogen bomb and which requires extremely large amounts of energy to initiate.

The post says flat out that the nuclear physicists were correct 20 years ago when they concluded that what was being called "cold fusion" simply could not happen in the conventional sense of the term. What the physicists missed at the time, and many still do, was that the anomalous heat that was being reported was not coming from some miraculous overcoming of the coulomb barrier in defiance of the laws of physics, but from a heretofore unknown reaction at the atomic scale that did not require large amounts of energy to initiate.
Bushnell reports that NASA is currently attempting to verify a new theory known as Widom-Larsen that may provide the theoretical basis for understanding how heat is produced.

Another great LENR piece by Tom Whipple who is also following the very interesting LENR story.

It isn't just Rossi, folks.

[SeaGypsy]

Bloody hell Carl. How many deadlines have you put up here "By January (or whatever) this or that evidence will be made available; then what happens? Nada, squat, nothing. So far the skeptics have been totally right and you have been totally wrong. That is not 'following a news story', it's reason to doubt your mental health.